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Should the Jays go after an OF this offseason?

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  • Should the Jays go after an OF this offseason?

    With talk of Lind working on 1B come next year and Snider still a bit of a question mark right now at the big league level, 2 of our young prospects may not be everyday outfielders next year. Our 2 locks this year (Wells and Rios) has seen 1 of them get shipped off. Bautista and Inglett have played some OF, but are hardly long-term solutions IMO. Ruiz says he plans to test out his glove in the OF this offseason. Suddenly one of our more stocked positions for the future is looking a little shaky.

    So given all this (and maybe more that I'm forgetting), would you go out shopping for an everyday outfielder this offseason or do some patchwork with what you have and try to improve on other areas?

  • #2
    Coco Crisp is one of the players at the top of my list


    He can play CF and move Vernon to RF where he might project more favorably. Also, Crisp has a pretty good career OB% so theres the potential of a leadoff hitter. Most importantly though, he wont cost an arm and a leg. He can do the Job of Vernon Wells and then some for probably 10-15% of his salary.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Woodman19 View Post
      Coco Crisp is one of the players at the top of my list


      He can play CF and move Vernon to RF where he might project more favorably. Also, Crisp has a pretty good career OB% so theres the potential of a leadoff hitter. Most importantly though, he wont cost an arm and a leg. He can do the Job of Vernon Wells and then some for probably 10-15% of his salary.
      The team never hit worth a damn in 2007,08 and 09, so I am hoping that they can add some power, providing they are actually willing to spend some $$$
      http://www.blackbetsy.com/movies/joeatbat.mpg

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by History Of Baseball Fan View Post
        The team never hit worth a damn in 2007,08 and 09, so I am hoping that they can add some power, providing they are actually willing to spend some $$$
        I couldnt agree more, but if the team has showed us one thing over hte past few years, you need more then just 1 dynamic to an offense. Adding players like Figgins and Crisp would go a long way to add players who can play small ball and be place setters for the big bats.

        I personally think that if we did get both Figgins and Crisp it would be enough to push us into possible Wildcard contention, Imagine a lineup looking roughly like.

        3B/Chone Figgins
        SS/Marco Scutaro
        2B/Aaron Hill
        1B/Adam Lind
        C/Rod Barajas
        RF/Vernon Wells
        LF/Travis Snider
        DH/Juan Encarnacion
        CF/Coco Crisp

        Other then Wells being horrible, and Encarnacion hitting terrible thus far. The Lineup has a nice mix of solid base runners, contact hitters and power. Ideally another power bat would look nice in the middle of the order (especially the 5 hole) but I believe Snider could possibly step up into that role next year, although I am not counting on it.


        With our rotation, I really would like (if we are planning on competing) to sign Tim Hudson to our rotation. I believe he would be a great #2 starter behind Halladay who wont command mega $ but should be effective. (also has a history with Riccardi... A positive one)

        Also if at all possible at a reasonable price, Jarrod Washburn. A veteran lefty who is still an effective pitcher

        Halladay
        Hudson
        Romero
        Washburn?
        then a competition for the final spot, with many to call on incase of.... When we get ravaged by injuries.

        For the pen, I think we need to add 1 veteran arm who throw's strikes and can be anything from a setup man to a middle relief. adding 2 would once again re-establish one of the best pens in combination with arms like Downs, Tallet, Frasor.

        All those moves I think wouldnt be overly costly if we were looking to a serious run. Is it a Yankee's offseason? nope. But for bang for the buck I dont think your going to be able to do much better, putting all the eggs in one basket for someone like Bay or Holliday wouldnt be efficient, as Well's has shown how destructive that can be.

        Comment


        • #5
          Where has Vernon won his Gold Gloves? Exactly.

          The Jays are in need of offense. Start there.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Armster View Post
            Where has Vernon won his Gold Gloves? Exactly.
            do you think he has been playing like a gold glover this year?

            The goldglove is also a award that is given to the more prestigous players then it is the true "best defender" lots of times a player who has better offensive numbers or is a more popular player will win the gold glove over somone who doesnt have his reputation or numbers but better offense.

            Im not saying its not given to a good defensive player, just that its not always given to the "best" defensive player.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Woodman19 View Post
              do you think he has been playing like a gold glover this year?
              His fielding percentage is perfect and .08 above league average. Doesn't get any better than that from that category. His fielding stats are very very similar to his GG seasons, so yes.
              The goldglove is also a award that is given to the more prestigous players then it is the true "best defender" lots of times a player who has better offensive numbers or is a more popular player will win the gold glove over somone who doesnt have his reputation or numbers but better offense.
              Sure, doesn't mean he isn't a great fielder though. All things considered.

              I am saying, you don't take a guy who is 1/5th of our payroll and is obviously a sensitive bitch and move him out of his comfort zone. In fairness to the Jays, the only chance they have is if he gets going.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Armster View Post
                His fielding percentage is perfect and .08 above league average. Doesn't get any better than that from that category. His fielding stats are very very similar to his GG seasons, so yes.

                Sure, doesn't mean he isn't a great fielder though. All things considered.

                I am saying, you don't take a guy who is 1/5th of our payroll and is obviously a sensitive bitch and move him out of his comfort zone. In fairness to the Jays, the only chance they have is if he gets going.
                also as I said, his numbers would project better as a corner outfielder, and seeing as he is an above average defender, I would prefere him in RF.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Woodman19 View Post
                  Coco Crisp is one of the players at the top of my list


                  He can play CF and move Vernon to RF where he might project more favorably. Also, Crisp has a pretty good career OB% so theres the potential of a leadoff hitter. Most importantly though, he wont cost an arm and a leg. He can do the Job of Vernon Wells and then some for probably 10-15% of his salary.
                  Not liking the Crisp option one bit. He has permanently regressed from what looked like a breakout season in 2005 when Boston picked him up in the offseason. At this stage, he's basically a .260 hitter with below average patience and 25 SB & little power. And he's coming of right shoulder surgery in which he's missed 2/3 of the season. Coco Crisp is a great option if your looking for either a lateral move, a 8th place hitter or 4th outfielder. He's not a starter on a contending team.
                  Last edited by Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan; 09-11-2009, 07:58 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Woodman19 View Post
                    I couldnt agree more, but if the team has showed us one thing over hte past few years, you need more then just 1 dynamic to an offense. Adding players like Figgins and Crisp would go a long way to add players who can play small ball and be place setters for the big bats.

                    I personally think that if we did get both Figgins and Crisp it would be enough to push us into possible Wildcard contention, Imagine a lineup looking roughly like.

                    3B/Chone Figgins
                    SS/Marco Scutaro
                    2B/Aaron Hill
                    1B/Adam Lind
                    C/Rod Barajas
                    RF/Vernon Wells
                    LF/Travis Snider
                    DH/Juan Encarnacion
                    CF/Coco Crisp
                    Sorry man, I strenuously disagree with this assertion. As constructed, there is 4 dead-weight hitters in that lineup; and if Snider doesn't develop it's 5. Besides, the Angels/Cubs/Yankees are all reported to be interested in Figgins, so I doubt he's coming here unless Jays overpay by $2M/year. Overbay is still under contract for $7M per, so he's playing 1B should he not be dealt in the off season. Either way, that lineup is not strong enough to compete with Yankees or Red Sox (Barajas batting 5th of contending team WTF??).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan View Post
                      Sorry man, I strenuously disagree with this assertion. As constructed, there is 4 dead-weight hitters in that lineup; and if Snider doesn't develop it's 5. Besides, the Angels/Cubs/Yankees are all reported to be interested in Figgins, so I doubt he's coming here unless Jays overpay by $2M/year. Overbay is still under contract for $7M per, so he's playing 1B should he not be dealt in the off season. Either way, that lineup is not strong enough to compete with Yankees or Red Sox (Barajas batting 5th of contending team WTF??).
                      fair enough, is there one you would suggest assembling that is in the realm of possibility financially?


                      Personally i think we should blow it up and rebuild around Lind, Hill and Snider

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Woodman19 View Post
                        fair enough, is there one you would suggest assembling that is in the realm of possibility financially?


                        Personally i think we should blow it up and rebuild around Lind, Hill and Snider
                        Now you sound like a Leafs fan

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Armster View Post
                          Now you sound like a Leafs fan
                          that would seem to be the opposite of a leaf fan, advocating rebuilding rather then trade any youth we have for that elusive push

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Woodman19 View Post
                            fair enough, is there one you would suggest assembling that is in the realm of possibility financially?


                            Personally i think we should blow it up and rebuild around Lind, Hill and Snider
                            The only option I see is blowing it up from the top down. A big reason for this is the assumption Halladay will look to greener pastures after this year. Given that likelihood, there's just too many holes to fill to compete in 2010, as I've mentioned previously. It would take the signing of 4-5 quality of FA's to get this team to the postseason; and that would add 50M+ to the payroll for next year assuming we could even attract that many to Rogers Center, which we can't. The Jays are trying to half-ass the rebuilding process, and its not going to work.

                            I like what the Indians did this year. Due to injuries & ineffectiveness, they cut their losses when the team grossly underperformed and traded away vetran players for quality prospects. Going back to Sabathia last year, which they knew they couldn't resign, they snagged Brantley and LaPorta; 2 pretty exciting young players. Then this year they traded 35 yr. old Mark Derosa for two quality power arms in Todd and Perez; the latter could be future closer with high 90's fastball. Then they got a whole whack of quality prospects in the Lee deal, including a probable #2 or #3 starter in Carasco and upper 90's-throwing Jason Knapp. They also traded so-so 1B clogger Ryan Garko for intriguing LH pitcher Scott Barnes, who is 14-5 between A-AA. And to top it off, they pared payroll by trading Victor Martinez for a slew of high quality Boston prospects including big time prospect Nick Hagadone.

                            So basically, although the Indians gave up some quality with Lee, Martinez & Betancourt, these players are all in their 30's and likely to lose effectiveness by the time the Indians got around to competing again. And that's assuming they could compete again without the big time prospects they got in return. Their system is now loaded with talent and is amongst the best in baseball. Yet, the still retained a nucleus of experienced talent in the likes of Sizemore, Choo and Cabrera in which to build around. This is how you turn around a franchise: by COMMITTING to the rebuilding process instead of being tepid about it like the Jays have done. Unfortunately it appears upper management has not had the fortitude to do what needs to be done. The Jays did well by trading Rolen and pitching Rios but should have gone further by trading Scutaro and Halladay and possibly Downs. This trio could have brought in an impressive haul and expedited the rebuilding process by injecting a much needed infusion of talent. Instead, Scutaro is likely to leave via free agency (and is mid 30's; unlikely to be very productive when Jays compete again) and Halladay's sianara after next year. In other words We continue to piss in the wind.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan View Post
                              The only option I see is blowing it up from the top down. A big reason for this is the assumption Halladay will look to greener pastures after this year. Given that likelihood, there's just too many holes to fill to compete in 2010, as I've mentioned previously. It would take the signing of 4-5 quality of FA's to get this team to the postseason; and that would add 50M+ to the payroll for next year assuming we could even attract that many to Rogers Center, which we can't. The Jays are trying to half-ass the rebuilding process, and its not going to work.

                              I like what the Indians did this year. Due to injuries & ineffectiveness, they cut their losses when the team grossly underperformed and traded away vetran players for quality prospects. Going back to Sabathia last year, which they knew they couldn't resign, they snagged Brantley and LaPorta; 2 pretty exciting young players. Then this year they traded 35 yr. old Mark Derosa for two quality power arms in Todd and Perez; the latter could be future closer with high 90's fastball. Then they got a whole whack of quality prospects in the Lee deal, including a probable #2 or #3 starter in Carasco and upper 90's-throwing Jason Knapp. They also traded so-so 1B clogger Ryan Garko for intriguing LH pitcher Scott Barnes, who is 14-5 between A-AA. And to top it off, they pared payroll by trading Victor Martinez for a slew of high quality Boston prospects including big time prospect Nick Hagadone.

                              So basically, although the Indians gave up some quality with Lee, Martinez & Betancourt, these players are all in their 30's and likely to lose effectiveness by the time the Indians got around to competing again. And that's assuming they could compete again without the big time prospects they got in return. Their system is now loaded with talent and is amongst the best in baseball. Yet, the still retained a nucleus of experienced talent in the likes of Sizemore, Choo and Cabrera in which to build around. This is how you turn around a franchise: by COMMITTING to the rebuilding process instead of being tepid about it like the Jays have done. Unfortunately it appears upper management has not had the fortitude to do what needs to be done. The Jays did well by trading Rolen and pitching Rios but should have gone further by trading Scutaro and Halladay and possibly Downs. This trio could have brought in an impressive haul and expedited the rebuilding process by injecting a much needed infusion of talent. Instead, Scutaro is likely to leave via free agency (and is mid 30's; unlikely to be very productive when Jays compete again) and Halladay's sianara after next year. In other words We continue to piss in the wind.
                              Wonderfully said and I agree we should blow up this team. The failures I saw at the deadline was to not Trade Halladay, Downs and maybe even Barajas. Scutaro will be a Type A free agent so will get us more then we might of goten in a trade.

                              Comment

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