Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Left-Handed Catchers

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Imgran View Post
    The only practical reason you wouldn't want an LH catcher would be because their throwing arm -- a catcher's bread and butter nearly as much as a pitcher's -- would be more exposed on a plate-blocking play, leading to a much increased risk of arm injuries. Beyond that I have a hard time believing any common play or incident would be beyond the skills of a properly talented LH C.
    I think we've seen some of the negatives posted here, the negative side of a left handed throwing catcher.

    Call some practical, not a big deal, what ever, wouldn't we have seen more lefthanded throwing catchers if the throwing from the left side doesn't matter that much, where are they. In the last 55 years, lefthanded throwing catchers played in only 8 games.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
      I think we've seen some of the negatives posted here, the negative side of a left handed throwing catcher.

      Call some practical, not a big deal, what ever, wouldn't we have seen more lefthanded throwing catchers if the throwing from the left side doesn't matter that much, where are they. In the last 55 years, lefthanded throwing catchers played in only 8 games.
      This creates circular logic of the first order -- it almost never happens because, well, because it almost never happens.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Imgran View Post
        This creates circular logic of the first order -- it almost never happens because, well, because it almost never happens.
        Looks like we both see the situation differently. I say it never happens or so seldom ever happens is because it's more preferable to have the catcher be RH thrower. The games over 100 years old and it's still RH throwing catchers.

        Only 5 games in the last 27 years with the LH thower and no games in the last 17 years.
        The biggest reason, it's a postition where you would rather have the RH throwing catcher.
        Lets forget about what we think, what about those on the field playing the game, setting the field. I go back to the bottom line, if more in the game thought a LH thrower could do as well as a RH thrower, why is there none.

        Comment


        • #49
          It is odd that glove manufacturers produce lots of youth first basemen's gloves for lefties and very few youth catcher's gloves or youth infielder's gloves for lefties. Lefties do have easier access to catchers gloves today than way back when in my day.

          When you are only 9 years old and all you can wear is an outfielder's glove or a first baseman's glove then the message you learn is lefties can only play 5 positions on a team.
          "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
          "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

          Comment


          • #50
            The fact that a thing is not done, is no evidence at all that it cannot be done. Otherwise we'd all still be in caves drawing pictures on the wall with colored mud instead of sitting at computers.

            The part that gets me about this is that every position that is considered moderately difficult with the sole exception of CF is reserved strictly for RHT's -- the top 4 positions on the defensive spectrum IIRC are C, SS, 2B, 3B in that order and they've managed to find reasons that an LHT can't play any of them. The result is that a lot of RHD's can skate through the highest levels of ball on their glove alone, but if you want to be a lefty thrower in baseball you'd better mash.

            Can you say "Glass Ceiling?" Are we supposed to believe that LHT's cannot play any defensively challenging positions in baseball? That NO lefty can play up to a major league level at any of 2B, 3B, SS and C? That seems absurd on the face of it.

            I know that baseball is by nature a counterclockwise game but you'd think LHT's would have an advantage in at least one or two potentially difficult defensive positions. The most they can claim is a couple advantages when playing first base, the least difficult defensive position on the field. Again, that seems absurd on the face of it. What? No lefty in the world can ever play at a major league-level in a prime defensive position in the sport of baseball? Really?
            Last edited by Imgran; 08-18-2008, 09:49 PM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Imgran View Post
              The fact that a thing is not done, is no evidence at all that it cannot be done. Otherwise we'd all still be in caves drawing pictures on the wall with colored mud instead of sitting at computers.

              The part that gets me about this is that every position that is considered moderately difficult with the sole exception of CF is reserved strictly for RHT's -- the top 4 positions on the defensive spectrum IIRC are C, SS, 2B, 3B in that order and they've managed to find reasons that an LHT can't play any of them. The result is that a lot of RHD's can skate through the highest levels of ball on their glove alone, but if you want to be a lefty thrower in baseball you'd better mash.

              Can you say "Glass Ceiling?" Are we supposed to believe that LHT's cannot play any defensively challenging positions in baseball? That NO lefty can play up to a major league level at any of 2B, 3B, SS and C? That seems absurd on the face of it.

              I know that baseball is by nature a counterclockwise game but you'd think LHT's would have an advantage in at least one or two potentially difficult defensive positions. The most they can claim is a couple advantages when playing first base, the least difficult defensive position on the field. Again, that seems absurd on the face of it. What? No lefty in the world can ever play at a major league-level in a prime defensive position in the sport of baseball? Really?
              It's not that it cannot be done, there are no steady playing LH throwing catchers, second basemen, SS or third basemen simply because the positions are better suited and by a wide margin for RH throwers at those positions, it's plain to see. Only in rare plays would the LH be equal or better at those positions.

              Think of the one of the more common plays in the infield, ground out. The left hander unless he goes to his left and say backhands a ball will be at a disadvantage on the throw to first base. Lets speak about the most common, routine ground out, the LH infielder has to turn his body to the left to get off the throw.
              Imagine a bunt down the third baseline, what does a LH thowing 3B man have to do, scoop up the bunt and some how turn his body and then get enough on the ball to throw to first base, never happen, this one is easy.
              How many great stops by RH third basemen to their right down the line do we see, then at times throws out the runner, could a LF thower get enough on the ball, thats after he has to turn his body to make the throw.

              Catching and infielders except first basemen are better suited for RH throwers, thats the only reason, no one thinks it cannot be done.

              1950-2007 there have been around 24 games played by LH throwers ar 2B-SS-3B.


              First base and outfield shows no favoritism or partiality RH or LH throwers.

              Here is the number of games played by RH and LH throwers from 1950 to 2007. The most by both throwers.

              -----------------------RH-----------LH
              First base-------------2413---------2239
              Outfield---------------2813---------2843

              Close and I can tell you I looked at the top 10 and it's about equal from 1 to 10.

              I respect your opinion but your bucking the system, there are so little, almost no LH throwing catchers, 2B-SS-3B infielders, not because it cannot be done, there are just too many negatives.
              I don't see it changing, not in my lifetime, there would have to be a drastic change in the layout of the infield, not likely, basically the same for the last 100+ years.



              For some to say there are some rare plays where a LH infielder would have the edge over a RH thowing infielder is a weak argument, we have to base it on the routine plays, the one the infielder makes many more times.
              Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 08-19-2008, 04:39 AM.

              Comment


              • #52
                Hick Carpenter, Bill Greenwood, Roger Connor, Jimmy Hallinan, Jimmy Macullar, and Bill McClellan were lefties who each played in 2 or more seasons at 2B/SS/3B. Lefty Sam Trott even had the nerve to try and play both 2B and C in the same season. I wonder just how bad their fielding pcts. were compared with their peers?
                "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
                "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by TonyK View Post
                  Hick Carpenter, Bill Greenwood, Roger Connor, Jimmy Hallinan, Jimmy Macullar, and Bill McClellan were lefties who each played in 2 or more seasons at 2B/SS/3B. Lefty Sam Trott even had the nerve to try and play both 2B and C in the same season. I wonder just how bad their fielding pcts. were compared with their peers?
                  I'm answering my own question since I think what lefties did when given the chance to play ML 2B/SS/3B/C should serve to guide us:

                  Hick Carpenter played 1,059 games at 3B. His career fielding percentage was ABOVE the league averages by .04. His career range factor was below league averages by .05.

                  Bill Greenwood played 538 games at 2B. His career fielding percentage was ABOVE the league averages by .03. His career range factor was below league averages by .16.

                  Sam Trott, the guy who played both 2B & C in one season, in 272 games at C had a career fielding precentage ABOVE the league average by .03. His career range factor was also WAY ABOVE the league averages by .96!

                  Roger Connor played 68 games at 2B. His career fielding percentage was below the league average by .28. His career range factor was WAY ABOVE the league averages by .83!

                  Jimmy Macullar in 325 games at SS was very close to his league averages, and Jimmy Hallinan was not a good fielder at all.

                  So historically we do have some lefties who had great range, some who had excellent gloves, and some who probably had great arms. I omitted lefties with only 1 ML season from this list because I felt it wasn't enough games to make any evaluation. I look forward to one day seeing a lefty given the opportunity to play any of these positions in the ML's. We may see him (or her) make spectacular plays due to their handedness!
                  "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
                  "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by ipitch
                    It's pretty simple...

                    OFs of either hand are at a disadvantage at times. It's pretty close to 50/50 as to whether you'd want a RF to throw RH or LH. And, throws from the outfield are less important than infield throws. Outfield assists are far less common than infield assists.

                    A LH 3B/SS/2B would be at a disadvantage a larger percentage of the time than a RH. Perhaps 80/20. Plus, a batter could purposely bunt down the 3rd base line to a LH 3B, but a batter cannot hit to a specific spot in the outfield to put a fielder at a disadvantage.
                    I imagine a lefty 3B would practice fielding bunts and making throws to first about 10,000 times to at least become adequate at it. Today's MLers just might be the worst group of bunters in ML history. Would a lefty 3B take away any two-baggers hit down the line that a righty 3B might not get to?
                    "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
                    "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by TonyK View Post
                      I imagine a lefty 3B would practice fielding bunts and making throws to first about 10,000 times to at least become adequate at it. Today's MLers just might be the worst group of bunters in ML history. Would a lefty 3B take away any two-baggers hit down the line that a righty 3B might not get to?
                      He could practice all day and all night and guess what, he still has to turn his body around on a bunt to make the throw to first. Have you thought of this one, a ball hit to his right, try to turn and get something on the ball throwing to second base if he tries for a DP. SS coming in on a slow roller, where the RH scoops up the ball and sidearms the throw to first, what does the left handed SS do after he picks up the ball, how does he get anything on the throw.

                      I'm in disbelief reading posts that try to make a point, a very weak point, that a LH throwing second or third baseman or SS stop could play those positions as well as a RH thrower. No one is saying they would have a fielding problem, the problem is having to turn, position their body and then get something in the throw.

                      Don't you think that if they could play those positions we would have seen one by now...........after all these years.
                      What do you think, managers and others in the game just don't want LH throwers at that position for no reason.


                      Where are they all, where have they been all these years, why are there none, why only a handful in the last 50 years.

                      Not much more to be said, you two are losing the debate, if you don't get it by now you never will.................where are they, don't hold your breath.

                      It's all yours, nothing more to say, you have the last word.. Why don't one of you start a poll, LH or RH at those positions.
                      Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 08-20-2008, 06:24 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                        He could practice all day and all night and guess what, he still has to turn his body around on a bunt to make the throw to first. Have you thought of this one, a ball hit to his right, try to turn and get something on the ball throwing to second base if he tries for a DP. SS coming in on a slow roller, where the RH scoops up the ball and sidearms the throw to first, what does the left handed SS do after he picks up the ball, how does he get anything on the throw.

                        I'm in disbelief reading posts that try to make a point, a very weak point, that a LH throwing second or third baseman or SS stop could play those positions as well as a RH thrower. No one is saying they would have a fielding problem, the problem is having to turn, position their body and then get something in the throw.

                        Don't you think that if they could play those positions we would have seen one by now...........after all these years.
                        What do you think, managers and others in the game just don't want LH throwers at that position for no reason.


                        Where are they all, where have they been all these years, why are there none, why only a handful in the last 50 years.

                        Not much more to be said, you two are losing the debate, if you don't get it by now you never will.................where are they, don't hold your breath.

                        It's all yours, nothing more to say, you have the last word.. Why don't one of you start a poll, LH or RH at those positions.
                        We're *losing* the debate... because you said so???

                        I disagree with your position that it's not very possible for ML LH's to play those positions, regardless of what has happened throughout history. If someone in amateur ball can field and throw effectively and can turn DPs while being LH, then MLB players should be able to do it much better and much easier, since playing baseball IS their bread and butter, and they do it almost everyday for at least 8 months a year.

                        I'm not losing the debate. I just haven't convinced you, and you haven't convinced me.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
                          He could practice all day and all night and guess what, he still has to turn his body around on a bunt to make the throw to first. Have you thought of this one, a ball hit to his right, try to turn and get something on the ball throwing to second base if he tries for a DP. SS coming in on a slow roller, where the RH scoops up the ball and sidearms the throw to first, what does the left handed SS do after he picks up the ball, how does he get anything on the throw.

                          I'm in disbelief reading posts that try to make a point, a very weak point, that a LH throwing second or third baseman or SS stop could play those positions as well as a RH thrower. No one is saying they would have a fielding problem, the problem is having to turn, position their body and then get something in the throw.

                          Don't you think that if they could play those positions we would have seen one by now...........after all these years.
                          What do you think, managers and others in the game just don't want LH throwers at that position for no reason.


                          Where are they all, where have they been all these years, why are there none, why only a handful in the last 50 years.

                          Not much more to be said, you two are losing the debate, if you don't get it by now you never will.................where are they, don't hold your breath.

                          It's all yours, nothing more to say, you have the last word.. Why don't one of you start a poll, LH or RH at those positions.
                          Please address my post about ACTUAL ML LEFTIES who played these positions and I would love to hear your excuses.

                          I present historical facts to everyone and you rant on and on about how no lefty could ever play at these positions. We are all aware of the scarcity of lefties playing these positions. Present something new to this discussion please.
                          "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
                          "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by TonyK View Post
                            Would a lefty 3B take away any two-baggers hit down the line that a righty 3B might not get to?
                            Sure. A lefty will have at least one advantage over a righty at any position.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by ipitch View Post
                              Sure. A lefty will have at least one advantage over a righty at any position.
                              Some of their advantages at some positions may not be as great as a righties. I think we all agree about that and understand the examples. I don't care which hand a player wears his glove on. If he can make fewer errors, throw out more baserunners trying to steal, or get to more ground balls then I don't care about the What If plays that may or not occur.
                              "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
                              "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Jack Clements was a ML catcher for 17 seasons from 1884-1900. He was a lefty whose fielding average was ABOVE the league averages and whose range was ABOVE the league averages. He caught in 1,073 ML games and during the time when catchers had moved up close to the batter. Does anybody know what was written or said about his fielding?
                                "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
                                "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

                                Comment

                                Ad Widget

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X