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Great 19th Century Players Bio's

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  • #16
    Amos Rusie ELECTED BBF HOF

    Rusie led the league in strikeouts five times, is second to Niekro among retired pitchers not in the BBF HOF according to the rankings in Bill James' latest Historical Abstract, and is named in the same book as one of the three best pitchers in the period 1890-1899 by virtue of his inclusion in the all-star team for that period. His career win share total is 184th best all-time per the Win Share book. His peak performance persuades me to move him higher than that.


    Originally posted by catcher24
    Averaged 29.11 win shares per season. Won 245 games although he only played nine seasons, winning over 30 four consecutive years. Career ERA+ of 130. Black Ink: 52, or 23rd all time; gray ink: 179, or 57th all time. Won the 1894 NL pitching triple crown.

    In his nine seasons, he:
    Led in ERA twice, top five five times
    Led in wins once, top five five times
    Led in fewest hits allowed per 9 IP four times, top five seven times
    Led in strikeouts five times, top five seven times
    Led in innings pitched once, top five six times
    Led in shutouts four times, top five six times.

    Jim Albright
    Last edited by jalbright; 10-28-2005, 10:33 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

    Comment


    • #17
      Deacon White ELECTED BBF HOF

      He averaged 23.70 Win Shares in the majors (post National Association) per 162 games for 13.18 whole seasons. That's sold all-star territory on average throughout his career. He added to that 3.97 whole seasons in the National Association at a fine 3.1 games above average in TPR. That type of performance has landed him in Baseball Think Factory's "Hall of Merit" and our own Timeline's Hall.

      He twice led the league in average, three times in RBI, led the league in runs created once and was third twice more in that category. In Black Ink, he amassed 28 points, good for 62nd best of all time, and in Gray Ink, he scores 178 points, good for 55th best all time. All data in this paragraph is from Baseball-reference.com.
      Last edited by jalbright; 05-06-2006, 10:14 AM.
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by catcher24

        Tony Mullane, Pitcher

        9th in wins all time
        9th in innings pitched all time
        9th in strikeouts all time
        7th in games started all time
        8th in complete games all time
        7th in Win Shares all time for pitching
        45th in Total Win Shares all time (this includes his pitching, batting and fielding WS)
        Black Ink 55th all time
        Grey Ink 42nd all time
        HOF Standards 40th all time

        Also a decent hitter, with a career OPS+ of 87.
        Seven of the ten most similar pitchers to him (as determined by baseball-reference.com) are in the HOF.

        OK, so Mullane's league, the American Association was weaker. However, let's compare him to his contemporaries:

        Code:
        Pitcher....	career	best3	5Consecutive
        Radbourn..	391	199	270
        Clarkson..	396	173	248
        Keefe......	413	159	236
        Galvin.....	403	155	187
        Welch.....	354	145	193
        Mullane....	399	159	229
        Caruthers	335	162	254
        McCormick	334	136	196
        Whitney...	275	139	200
        Hecker....	259	155	221
        His career value matches up well with everybody from his time, and he stands up well to Galvin and Keefe, though Galvin would look better without having to include one bad year in his 5 consecutive. We've included Caruthers in the BBF HOF, and their top 3 are a good match, but Mullane has the much better career mark and Caruthers the much better consecutive five year mark. With my preference for the career, you should know that means I prefer Mullane, but others wouldn't share that sentiment. However, Mullane is clearly superior to one HOFer on the list (Welch, who is receiving more support in BBF HOF voting as I write) and the other non-HOFers (McCormick, Whitney, Hecker). He belongs.
        Last edited by jalbright; 01-13-2008, 07:58 AM.
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

        Comment


        • #19
          Pud Galvin ELECTED BBF HOF OCTOBER 2005

          Bill James' dismissal of 19th century play in general led him to leave this guy out of his top 100 pitchers in his latest Historical Abstract. I can't see any other reason for it:

          364 career wins, 5th best all time
          over 6000 IP
          2.86 ERA
          402 career win shares after 1875, second most of anyone born before 1860 and 43rd best all time per the Win Share book.
          won 46 games in a season--twice
          twice led the league in shutouts and had the 11th most for his career
          led the league in strikeouts 4 times, second once and fourth once
          248 Gray ink points, 21st among pitchers

          Cooperstown, The Hall of Merit and Timeline guys agree with me, putting him in their Halls. Also, 8 of the ten most similar pitchers as determined by baseball-reference.com are in Cooperstown.
          Last edited by jalbright; 10-28-2005, 10:35 AM.
          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

          Comment


          • #20
            King Kelly ELECTED BBF HOF OCTOBER 2005

            This man averaged 30.95 win shares per 162 games for 13.44 whole seasons. That's borderline MVP level each and every one of those 13.44 whole years! That alone is a HOF qualification. He's in Cooperstown, the Timeline group's Hall, and the Baseball Think Factory Hall of Merit.

            From Baseball-reference.com:
            Won 2 batting titles, third two other times
            led in runs scored 3 times, 5 other times in top 4
            6 times in top 5 in RBI
            led once in runs created, third three other times

            23 black ink points, 83rd all-time among hitters
            221 gray ink points, 31st all-time among hitters

            Jim Albright
            Last edited by jalbright; 10-28-2005, 10:35 AM.
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

            Comment


            • #21
              Paul Hines ELECTED BBF HOF

              He was a top-notch fielder in centerfield during the early days of baseball, as Win Shares fielding wins indicates he deserved seven Gold gloves. He won a Triple Crown in 1878 and led position players in win shares three times. He was among the top five among position players in his league three more years. He led his league in average twice and in runs created twice.

              His black ink total of 30 is 59th best all-time, and his gray ink score of 186 is 48th best all-time. He averaged 27.23 win shares per 162 games in his post National Association career, which ran for 14.73 complete seasons. Twenty-seven win shares is a high all-star quality of play, though not quite MVP caliber. He was rather good (if not exactly great) in the National Association as well, with a TPR of 1.6 per 162 games.

              All these factors led to his selection to the BBF Timeline Hall as well as to Baseball Think Factory's Hall of Merit. It's time for him to join the BBF HOF as well.

              Jim Albright
              Last edited by jalbright; 05-06-2006, 10:16 AM.
              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

              Comment


              • #22
                On another topic, I've been reluctant to vote for Mickey Welch. He's close, but I have had trouble giving him much credit for his gray ink (which IMO he needs to get my vote) because he so often finished 7th or lower. In today's majors, that's not a problem, but in the days before the pitching distance went to 60 feet 6 inches, teams used far fewer pitchers. I decided to really look at how many pitchers were used a good percentage of innings from 1876 to 1892. My standard was a pitcher counted as a regular starter if he pitched about 2.5 innings per team game or 300 innings in the season, whichever was less. Since pitchers were finishing 90% of their games as late as 1892, if you're starting a little over 1 game in 4, you'll make that mark. I'll give the year, the minimum number of IP used, and the number of pitchers exceeding that mark.

                Code:
                Year	min IP	pitchers
                1876	165	13
                1877	150	7
                1878	150	7
                1879	210	9
                1880	215	9
                1881	210	11
                1882	200	23
                1883	245	23
                1884	275	40
                1885	280	24
                1886	300	29
                1887	300	31
                1888	300	30
                1889	300	28
                1890	300	36
                1891	300	26
                1892	300	24
                It seems clear that teams in these years were using no more than 3 pitchers to handle the vast majority of their work--so a 7th place or lower finish among pitchers of that time is good, it isn't much of a sign of greatness. I'm open to somebody making the case for Welch, which still comes close IMO--but I have a hard time going the last few steps to put him over the top.

                Jim Albright
                Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Harry Stovey--ELECTED

                  I've edited the fine post by catcher 24 a bit to eliminate a redundancy and eliminated a few categories (like triples)

                  Originally posted by catcher24
                  A stumping commercial for Harry Stovey. Many will argue that he played in an inferior league, but that argument can be made for many of the pre-1890 electees. Stovey was a giant of the time and league in which he played.

                  FYI> Harry Stovey: Career OPS+ of 143, based on career BA of .289 (League: .263); OBP .361 (league .320); SLG .461 (league .354): OPS .822 (league .675). Also 509 stolen bases.

                  In his 14 season career he was:

                  Top 5 slugging: 7 times (led 3 times)
                  Top 5 OPS: 6 times (never led; 3 seconds)
                  Top 5 runs: 9 times (led 4 times)
                  Top 5 TB: 7 times (led 3)
                  Top 5 HR: 10 times (led 5)
                  Top 5 RC: 7 times (led 2)
                  Black Ink: 56 (20th all time)
                  Grey Ink: 210 (33rd all time)

                  IMO, these numbers deserve serious consideration for election. Thank you for your consideration
                  A major knock on Stovey is the fact he played in the AA rather than the stronger National League. Let's look at that a little. Nobody complains about the quality of the Player's League. He led that league in 1890 in steals and was third in each of the following categories: runs, homers, and runs created per game. In 1891, he played in the National League. Get a load of the highlights from that season: led in triples, homers, total bases and slugging percentage, second in runs created and RBI, third in runs created per game, OPS and doubles, and was fifth in runs and walks. Then consider that those two seasons he was 33 and 34, well past the prime of most all players. I submit that had he played in the National League, he would have been among the leading hitters throughout his career.

                  He's the fifth best position player in win shares in the 1880's, and his WS/162 of 28.88 (nearly at MVP candidate level--for his entire career of 12.55 complete seasons) is the 13th best among LF listed in the latest BJHA. He's also been inducted by the Baseball Think Factory guys and those at BBF's own Timeline Project.

                  Jim Albright
                  Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                  Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                  A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Herman Long

                    Herman is in the top 10 position players in Win Shares in the 1890's, and managed to achieve 22.91 win shares per 162 games(solid all-star level) for the 13.40 full seasons in his career. He was a heck of a glove man, and his black plus gray ink is well over what I'd want to see for a shortstop (he had 85, 50 is the cutoff I use).

                    I'll add this slightly edited (as I disagree with the expressions of the quality of several other early SS contained therein--I don't think that the edits seriously affect the fine points made) version of AG2004's usual fine work.
                    One of the fun things about doing these lists is that occasionally I come across someone who I hadn't thought of as a Hall of Famer, and hasn't appeared on any ballots for the BBFHOF, but appears worthy of induction into the BBFHOF once I go through everything. When producing my adjusted win shares totals for 19th-century shortstops, I made such a discovery: Herman Long.

                    .... Long had the misfortune to appear when there were three better players at the position: Davis, Dahlen, and Jennings. Worse yet, most of Long's career came when there was just one major league. ...

                    Long also had the bad fortune to come up against a glut of great defensive shortstops as well. Glasscock won four win shares gold gloves, but he was just an A- shortstop. Wallace, who won just two such titles, was an A+ shortstop. However, the 1890s also offered A+ shortstops in Bob Allen, Germany Smith, Bill Dahlen, and Hughie Jennings, and an A shortstop in Tommy Corcoran. That's a glut. Having one league made it twice as difficult to win a win shares gold glove.

                    ...

                    When I finished the Keltner List for Long, however, I concluded that, with the possible exception of Rizzuto, Long was the best major league shortstop outside the BBFHOF. (Rizzuto is the possible exception because giving him credit for military service may move him ahead of Long.) Long was also a leader on one of baseball's dynasties and was still rated highly by sportswriters 40 years after his peak years ended. That's a very good sign that he ought to be a Hall of Famer.

                    Long's reputation suffers mainly because he played against Davis and Dahlen and Jennings in a one-league era; had he achieved the same record in eras that didn't produce so many deserving shortstops, it would be easier to see that, like Davis and Dahlen and Jennings, he deserves induction into the BBFHOF. ...

                    Case to Consider: LONG, Herman

                    1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball?


                    No.

                    2. Was he the best player on his team?

                    He led Boston’s position players in win shares in 1891. He was second among the team’s position players in 1893, but third in the majors.

                    3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?

                    He led major league shortstops in win shares in 1891 and 1893, and AA shortstops in 1889. He was second among NL shortstops, and hence among major league SS, in 1892.

                    4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?

                    He had 29 raw win shares (32 per 154 scheduled games) in 1891, when Boston won the pennant by 3.5 games, so there was a lot of impact there. Long also had 26 win shares (30 per 154 games) in 1893, as the Beaneaters won by five games. Long was just barely at an All-Star level in 1897, when Boston won by two, but he was credited as a team leader. Thus, Long had an impact on several pennant winners.

                    5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime?

                    Since he played in 138 games at 35 and 120 games at 36 (both in 140-game seasons), I would have to say yes.

                    6. Is he the very best baseball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame?

                    No.

                    7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame?

                    By similarity scores: John Ward, Pee Wee Reese, Bid McPhee, Bobby Lowe, Jack Glasscock, Tony Fernandez, Dick Bartell, Ed McKean, Bill Dahlen, and Garry Templeton. We have three members of Cooperstown, and three BBFHOF members (although Ward is in as a contributor).

                    Adjusted career win shares, 1800s shortstops: Jack Glasscock 308, LONG 289, Ed McKean 240, Hughie Jennings 238. Later shortstops include Rabbit Maranville 302, Luis Aparicio 293, Tony Fernandez 280, Bert Campaneris 280, Lou Boudreau 277, Joe Sewell 277, Dave Concepcion 269, Dave Bancroft 269. This is actually a little below the cutoff area; Maranville’s 302 is the second-highest raw total among shortstops outside the BBFHOF, and Barry Larkin’s 314 is the second-lowest raw total among shortstops in the BBFHOF.

                    Best three seasons, 1800s SS: Bill Dahlen 95, George Davis 84, Herman Long 90, Jack Glasscock 87. Moderns with similar totals include Ernie Banks 96, Lou Boudreau 96, Vern Stephens 93, Alan Trammell 90, Jim Fregosi 89, Maury Wills 87, Rico Petrocelli 87, Johnny Pesky 87, Pee Wee Reese 85, Joe Sewell 84, Dave Bancroft 84. Long is pretty much at the border here.

                    Best five consecutive seasons, 1800s SS: George Davis 140, Bill Dahlen 136, Herman Long 131, Frank Fennelly 116. Later shortstops with similar totals include Lou Boudreau 135, Jim Fregosi 135, Pee Wee Reese 134, Alan Trammell 132, Johnny Pesky 130, Vern Stephens 129, Eddie Joost 126, Joe Sewell 125, and Rico Petrocelli 125. Long is right at the border here as well.

                    8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?

                    Long has a score of 7 (304th place) on the Black Ink test and 78 (300th) on the Gray Ink test. Both are low for position players, but good for shortstops in Cooperstown, and Long played most of his career when there was just one major league. Long also has a HOF Standards score of 36.9 (173rd), which is a little low for position players in general, but then again, he was a shortstop. Long also picked up two win share gold gloves.

                    Long is in neither Cooperstown nor the Hall of Merit.

                    9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?

                    According to the win shares system, Long was an A+ defensive shortstop, and that isn’t reflected in his offensive statistics. On the other hand, Long played in the high-offense 1890s, and the South End Grounds was one of the league’s top hitters’ parks, so that boosts his raw offensive numbers.

                    Long was also considered one of the Beaneaters’ on-field leaders as they won five pennants in eight years.

                    10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame?

                    No. Pearce, Cepeda, and Moore are better, in my opinion. However, one could make the case that Long is the best major league shortstop outside the BBFHOF.

                    11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?

                    Long had two seasons which come out to 30+ win shares per 152 scheduled games. That’s a little low for position players, but the only major league shortstop with multiple 30+ win share seasons who isn’t in the BBFHOF is Vern Stephens, and one of his came in 1944.

                    12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame?

                    Long recorded seven seasons with 20+ win shares per 154 scheduled games; that’s a little low, as eight is the general borderline. However, Long also had two seasons which come out to 19 win shares, and the system may underrate a top defensive player a little; nine All-Star-type seasons would push Long above the borderline.

                    13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?

                    At his peak, yes.

                    14. What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?

                    Long holds the major league record for most errors in a career. On the other hand, his 6.4 chances per game is also the record for most per game by a major league shortstop. The two records may be related; Long was involved in a lot of plays most shortstops were not good enough to reach, and the fielding equipment of the 1800s, combined with the fact that seasons were longer in his day than they were earlier, would put him at a disadvantage compared to fielders of similar ability in other eras when it came to the number of errors made in a career.

                    Also, in 1936 Hall of Fame voting, Long finished eighth in the nineteenth-century vote; he’s the only one in the top ten in that vote who isn’t in the BBFHOF. He finished ahead of, among others, Brouthers, Connor, Dahlen, Davis, Jennings, Burkett, Hamilton, Kelly, Nichols, Clarkson, and Rusie. As far as I know, the 1936 Veterans’ vote was the only such vote performed by the BBWAA.

                    15. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?

                    In general, yes.

                    CONCLUSION: As far as major league shortstops go, Herman Long is right at the current border between “in the BBFHOF” and “outside the BBFHOF.” The leadership he brought to one of baseball’s dynasties and the high regard writers still had about him 40 years after his peak ought to be enough to move him onto my queue.

                    On the other hand, he was the fourth-best shortstop of his era; among shortstops who came up between 1889 and 1891, Dahlen, Davis, and Jennings were all better. It isn’t that often that we have a glut of players at one position who arrive at around the same time and are all Hall of Famers. Kaline, Aaron, Robinson, and Clemente debuted in 1953-1956, but there aren’t many other gluts.

                    ...Long’s major drawback is an accident of timing; had he appeared in the 1880s or 1920s or 1960s, he would have overshadowed his contemporaries instead of being overshadowed by them. That accident of timing isn’t a good reason to drop him. Long is worthy of the BBFHOF.
                    Last edited by jalbright; 09-09-2007, 05:32 AM.
                    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Jack Glasscock

                      He averaged 24.36 win shares per 162 games in a season in which he played 14.94 full seasons. That level of performance is a solid one for an all-star, and is 12th best among retired shortstops listed in the latest Bill James Historical Abstract. If we exclude Monte Ward's pitching, he's the shortstop with the most Win Shares in the 1880's, and he adds 75 points of black ink plus gray ink, well above the HOF cutoff of 50 I use.

                      He has been inducted into the Baseball Think Factory "Hall of Merit" as a guy who was good enough to win 4 win shares Gold Gloves and would have gotten a fifth had he not split time between the UA and NL in 1884. He had three seasons where he produced at a pace of 30 or more win shares in a 154 game season (1882, 1886 and 1889).
                      Last edited by jalbright; 05-29-2006, 07:51 AM.
                      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Joe Kelley

                        He averaged 26.95 win shares per 162 games, which is solid all-star level over the course of a career lasting 13.02 full seasons. He's 151st in gray ink and 66th among position players in HOF standards. He had a career .317 average and a career .402 OBP.

                        Among his more notable placements among the league leaders were the following: six times in the top ten in OBP, seven times in the top ten in slugging percentage, six times in the top ten in RBI, and seven times in the top ten in runs created. I'll add another of AG2004's fine Keltner List analyses:

                        Originally posted by AG2004 View Post
                        1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball?

                        No.

                        2. Was he the best player on his team?

                        He led Baltimore’s position players in win shares in 1893 and 1894, and led Brooklyn’s position players in win shares in 1899 and 1900.

                        3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?

                        He was the NL’s best left fielder in 1894 and 1896, according to win shares, and was among the league’s top three outfielders in 1899. He was also among the NL’s top six outfielders in win shares in 1893 and 1897.

                        In 1901, he had 18 win shares in a 140-game season to lead NL 1B in win shares. This reflected the low level of play among 1B more than anything else; in 1895, when Kelley had 27 win shares in a 132-game season, he finished eighth among OF in win shares.

                        4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?

                        Kelley had MVP-candidate-type seasons in 1894, 1895, and 1896, when Baltimore won the pennant (the first two years by 3 games), and another in 1897, when Baltimore finished 2 games back. He also led Brooklyn position players in win shares in 1899 and 1900, both years when the team won the pennant. Thus, Kelley did have an impact on a number of pennant races.

                        5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime?

                        For a few seasons, he could, but his last full-time season was at the age of 34.

                        6. Is he the very best baseball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame?

                        Probably not, but one can make a good case for an answer of yes.

                        7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame?

                        By similarity scores: Hugh Duffy, Kiki Cuyler, Edd Roush, Bobby Veach, Sherry Magee, George Van Haltren, Fred Clarke, Pie Traynor, Jimmy Ryan, and Dixie Walker. Five are in Cooperstown, while four are in the BBFHOF. Of the ten players in this list, only Magee, who has a career OPS+ of 137, has an OPS+ above Kelley’s 133.

                        Adjusted career WS, 19th-century LF: Jimmy Sheckard 349, KELLEY 334, Harry Stovey 314. Twentieth-century LF with similar totals include Goose Goslin 355, Sherry Magee 354, Lou Brock 348, Jose Cruz 313, Joe Medwick 312. This is generally BBFHOF territory.

                        Adjusted best three seasons, 19th-century LF: Ed Delahanty 113, KELLEY 103, Jimmy Sheckard 103, Jim O’Rourke 100, Fred Clarke 98, Charley Jones 97. Later LF with similar totals include Al Simmons 104, Tim Raines 102, Ralph Kiner 102, Charlie Keller 102, Frank Howard 102, Willie Stargell 100, George Burns 97, and Billy Williams 96. This is a good sign for Kelley, as the only players in this group outside the BBFHOF are those with fewer than 300 career win shares.

                        Adjusted five best consecutive seasons, 19th-century LF: Jesse Burkett 161, KELLEY 156, Jim O’Rourke 153, Charley Jones 143. Comparable 20th-century LF include Joe Medwick 157, Charlie Keller 157 (skipping the partial 1945 season), Ralph Kiner 155, Al Simmons 153, Frank Howard 153, Rickey Henderson 152, Sherry Magee 151, Joe Jackson 150, Willie Stargell 148, Goose Goslin 147. This is also BBFHOF territory.

                        8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?

                        Kelley’s Black Ink score of 2 is very low. His Gray Ink mark of 122, for 152nd all-time, is a little low. However, his HOF Standards score is a solid 51.8, good for 63rd. Also, Kelley earned two win share gold gloves, which is good for a corner outfielder.

                        Joe Kelley is in both Cooperstown and the Hall of Merit.

                        9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?

                        Kelley’s best years came in the high-offense 1890s.

                        10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame?

                        One can make a good case that Kelley is the best left fielder outside the BBFHOF.

                        11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?

                        There was no MVP award during Kelley’s career. However, he had five seasons which project to 30+ win shares over 154 games. That’s a very good sign that Kelley is a deserving Hall of Famer.

                        12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame?

                        There were no All-Star games in Kelley’s era. However, he had nine seasons which project to 20+ win shares per 154 games scheduled. That’s a good sign, as eight is the borderline.

                        13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?

                        Yes, it would be likely, especially with five MVP-candidate-type seasons in his prime.

                        14. What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?

                        Not that I know of.

                        15. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?

                        Kelley did have a problem with his temper.

                        CONCLUSION: Joe Kelley was voted into Cooperstown by Frankie Frisch’s Veterans Committee. But don’t let that fool you. Kelley actually merited induction into Cooperstown, proving that Frisch could occasionally stumble across a deserving candidate once in a while. He deserves induction into the BBFHOF as well.
                        Last edited by jalbright; 05-18-2007, 01:31 PM.
                        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          George Gore

                          He averaged 30.91 win shares per 162 games over a career lasting 11.66 full seasons. That means he averaged being a MVP caliber candidate over his career. That win shares per 162 games is also good for sixth place among center fielders. He is 111th all time in black ink and 141st all time in gray ink, both of which are in HOF territory.

                          His list of performances among the league leaders is impressive:
                          in the top seven in average five times, leading once;
                          in the top seven in OBP ten times, leading once;
                          in the top ten in slugging percentage seven times, leading once;
                          in the top seven in runs scored nine times, leading twice;
                          in the top six in runs created five times, leading once; and
                          in the top six in walks eight times, leading three times.

                          He is the STATS, Inc NL MVP of 1880, leading the league in average, on base percentage, and slugging percentage for the pennant winners. He was a key contributor to six pennant winner and had a career offensive winning percentage of .690.

                          Here's a fine analysis by AG2004:
                          Note: Seasons up to 1889 are adjusted to 140 games; seasons from 1890 on are adjusted to 154 games.

                          1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball?

                          I don’t know. He did lead all major league position players in win shares in 1880 and 1885, though.

                          2. Was he the best player on his team?

                          He led all Chicago position players in win shares in 1880, 1883, and 1885. He was one of the three offensive stars for Chicago during that period, the other two being Cap Anson and King Kelly.

                          3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?

                          He was the top OF in baseball in win shares in 1880, 1883, and 1885, and led baseball’s center fielders in 1881 and 1886 as well. He was among the top three OF in baseball each of those seasons, as well as in 1882. (In 1886, we are adjusting for schedule length; the NL had a 126-game season, but the AA had a 140-game season.)

                          4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?

                          Gore had 17 win shares in 1882 (28 win shares per 140 games), when Chicago won the pennant by 3 games. He had 30 win shares (38 per 140 games) when Chicago won the title by 2 games in 1885. He had 26 raw WS in 1886 (Chicago won by 2 games) and 32 in 1889 (New York won by 1 game). So Gore had a large impact on several pennant races.

                          5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime?

                          For a couple of seasons, yes.

                          6. Is he the very best baseball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame?

                          No.

                          7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame?

                          By similarity scores: Mike Griffin, Chick Stahl, Dom DiMaggio, Buddy Lewis, Pete Fox, Ginger Beaumont, Jo-Jo Moore, Kip Selbach, Duff Cooley, Jack Tobin. None are in Cooperstown; none are in the BBFHOF. However, none of the ten have an OPS+ above 123; Gore has a career OPS+ of 136.

                          Adjusted career WS, contemporary CF: Paul Hines 364, Jimmy Ryan 341, Hugh Duffy 325, George Gore 322, Dummy Hoy 275. Gore is in the region of serious contenders. Later CF with around 322 win shares include Max Carey 351, Richie Ashburn 329, Willie Davis 322, Vada Pinson 321, Edd Roush 314, Jimmy Wynn 305, and Al Oliver 305. This isn’t necessarily BBFHOF territory, although there are several members with career marks between 280 and 300.

                          Adjusted best three seasons, 1800s CF: Billy Hamilton 110, GORE 109, Paul Hines 107, Hugh Duffy 103. This is BBFHOF territory for Gore. Later players with around 109 win shares in their peaks include Joe DiMaggio 114, Duke Snider 112, Jimmy Wynn 100, and Wally Berger 100. Gore remains in BBFHOF territory.

                          Adjusted best five consecutive seasons: Paul Hines 161, Hugh Duffy 161, GORE 146, Pete Browning 143, Jimmy Ryan 135, George Van Haltren 135. Later CFs with peaks around 146 win shares include Larry Doby 152, Wally Berger 152, Dale Murphy 150, Earl Averill 143, Jimmy Wynn 141, and Cesar Cedeno 140. This is very good company.

                          8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?

                          Gore’s black ink mark of 19 is 112th overall, a good sign. He’s a little weak in gray ink, at 125 (143rd overall). His HOF Standards Score of 30.9 ranks him at number 267, which is really low. However, short seasons did contribute to the low score.

                          Gore also won 7 Win Shares Gold Gloves. While not a member of Cooperstown, Gore was a member of the very first class of the Hall of Merit. Furthermore, Gore is a member of the BBF Timeline HOF.

                          9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?

                          Gore played in a top hitter’s park during the early 1880s, which inflates his offensive numbers. However, he was also an exceptional defensive player, which isn’t recorded in his offensive stats.

                          10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame?

                          I might go with Hugh Duffy instead, but there’s a case for Gore being the best MLB CF outside the BBFHOF.

                          11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?

                          There was no MVP award in Gore’s era, but he led all NL position players in win shares twice. He had three seasons which project to 30+ win shares.

                          12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame?

                          There was no such competition in Gore’s day. However, he had ten seasons which project to 20+ win shares. That’s very good for a Hall of Famer.

                          13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?

                          Yes, it would be likely.

                          14. What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?

                          Not that I know of.

                          15. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?

                          Allegedly, Chicago released Gore after the 1886 season because he caroused too much. But that’s the only mark I could find on Gore’s record, and his behavior doesn’t seem to have caused any trouble elsewhere. So I think he upheld the standards.

                          CONCLUSION: Gore is more than worthy of induction into the BBFHOF.
                          Last edited by Bill Burgess; 12-22-2007, 11:18 AM.
                          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Great 19th Century Players Bio's

                            JIM CREIGHTON (1841–1862)

                            orn on April 15, 1841, Jim Creighton was baseball's first real star and made his pitching debut with the Brooklyn Niagaras at age eighteen in 1859. He would join the Brooklyn Star Club that year and then join the Excelsior Club, in 1860, for "under the table inducements." Although it is difficult to prove, he was probably the first paid player (not Al Reach of the Brooklyn Eckfords and the Philadelphia Athletics as recognized by the Baseball Hall of Fame).


                            On June 30, 1860, the Excelsior Club boarded a train and embarked on the first great baseball tour. They started in upper New York State and on July 2 defeated the Champion Club of Albany, 24–6. On July 3 the Victory Club of Troy fell to the Excelsiors 13–7. They enjoyed a 50–19 victory against the Buffalo Niagaras on July 5. Wins in Rochester, NY and Newburgh, NY followed and the Excelsiors returned to Brooklyn on July 12 to prepare for the Atlantic Base Ball Club. On July 19, some 10,000 fans turned out to watch pitching ace Jim Creighton win easily 24–4. Afterwards they turned south in response to many invitations and played the Excelsior Club of Baltimore and won 51–6 on July 22. The trip concluded with games in Philadelphia, Maryland and Delaware, with the Excelsiors winning every game.


                            At the time Creighton pitched, the ball had to be delivered with a stiff-armed underhand motion. Creighton was said to be one of the first to bend the rule. He inaugurated speed pitching by adding an almost undetectable wrist snap and arm bend to his delivery. From 45 feet away he threw his rising "speedballs" and then threw slow pitches he called "dew drops" to further confuse the batter. During this time the pitcher's job was to help the batter and not hinder him. Fielding was to decide the game and some detested his aggressive approach. On November 8, 1860, Creighton would record baseball's first shutout. He was also an excellent hitter, scoring 47 runs in 20 games that same year. During the 1862 season, he was reportedly retired only four times.


                            On October 18, 1862, playing against the Union Club of Morrisania, NY, Creighton hit a home run. John Chapman, who was on-deck, heard something snap during Creighton's swing. After Jim crossed home plate he assured Chapman that his belt had broken. Four days later the Excelsior star was dead having ruptured his spleen or bladder in the process. He had bled to death of internal injuries. Jim Creighton was 21.

                            Creighton's approach forever changed the essence of the game from a match between hitters and fielders, to a duel between the pitcher and batter. He has not been inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame.

                            Source: http://www.19cbaseball.com/players.html
                            "There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.
                            ~~Al Gallagher


                            God Bless America!

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                            • #29
                              BOB FERGUSON (1845–1894)

                              In June 14, 1870 the Brooklyn Atlantics were playing host to the powerful Cincinnati Red Stockings at Capitoline Grounds in Brooklyn, NY. The Red Stockings had not lost a game in two years. They were undefeated with only one tie in 69 games, according to the Baseball Hall of Fame. At the end of nine innings, the Atlantics walked off the field proudly with a 5–5 tie. The crowd of between 9,000 and 20,000, who paid 50 cents to watch, was thrilled to see the Atlantics come from behind to tie the historic game.


                              The Captain of the Red Stockings, Harry Wright, claimed the game was not over. He said the rules stated that "unless it be mutually agreed upon by the captains of the two nines to consider the game a draw," a tie game must continue into extra innings. Atlantics captain, Bob Ferguson, announced that they were more than happy with a draw.

                              Wright consulted Henry Chadwick, chairman of the Rules Committee of the newly formed National Association, who was in attendance. Chadwick ruled the game should continue.

                              In the top of the 11th the Red Stockings pushed across two runs. In the home half of the inning, Cincinnati's pitcher Asa Brainard gave up a single to first baseman Charley Smith and allowed him to move to third on a wild pitch. Joe Start hit a drive to rightfield that went into the crowd. Cal McVey managed to get the ball from the crowd but not before Start ended up on third. With Smith scoring, the Atlantics were down by one. Leftfielder John Chapman grounded out to third but Start was unable to score. Third baseman Bob Ferguson hit a grounder to Charlie Gould at first base. Gould allowed the ball to go through his legs. Start scored the tying run and Ferguson rounded second and headed for third. Gould threw the ball over third baseman Fred Waterman's head and Ferguson scored the winning run.

                              Each Atlantic was paid $364 for their effort. The mighty Red Stockings continued to play, however, and after succumbing to five more losses the team disbanded six months later. Investors withdrew their support citing poor attendance and rising costs as the main reasons.

                              Robert Vavasour Ferguson was born on January 31, 1845 and raised in Brooklyn, NY. He was an overall average player. But it was his character and unquestioned honesty during a period when games were often decided by gamblers which made him different. His bad temper, stubbornness and honesty were traits that caused him to be disliked.

                              He became the first captain, and third baseman, of the New York Mutuals in the first professional league, the National Association of Professional Base Ball Players, formed in 1871. In the first season the Mutuals would finish fourth. Ferguson who "insisted upon implicit obedience from his men" was forced to leave because of the heavy rumors of gambling surrounding the team. He was also a substitute umpire for the National Association that inaugural season.

                              The year of 1872 was a busy for Ferguson. He was a convention delegate for the Brooklyn Atlantics, the team he would return to as the player/captain, for the '72 season. During the convention, held in Cleveland, he would be elected president of the National Association. Some ball players felt this was only a figurehead position. Ferguson felt otherwise. He wanted the players to have a representative. He would hold that position until the collapse of the NA, in 1875. He also became a regular umpire for the NA. On September 1, 1872 Ferguson arranged a benefit game for Albert Thake, a 22-year-old left fielder for the Atlantics, who drowned off Fort Hamilton, in New York Harbor, while fishing. The old Brooklyn Atlantics and Members of the 1869 Cincinnati Red Stockings played against each other in the benefit game. The Atlantics ended the season in 6th place; the first of three consecutive 6th place finishes.

                              In 1873, Ferguson was once again a convention delegate for the Atlantics during the meetings held in Baltimore, MD. He stayed on as a regular umpire for the NA but was involved in an incident during a game on July 24. While umpiring a game between the Baltimore Canaries and Ferguson's former team, the NY Mutuals, he was loudly abused throughout the game by notorious umpire-baiter, Mutuals catcher Nat Hicks. The game was close and the Mutuals produced a three-run rally in the ninth to win 11-10. Ferguson and Hicks got into an altercation at the conclusion of the game. Ferguson hit Hicks with a bat in the left arm and had to have a police escort to get to the clubhouse. Although Hicks ended up with a broken arm in two places and would not play for two months, he refused to press charges and the two reconciled after the game. As a result, Ferguson was only a substitute umpire in the '74 season.


                              In 1875, Ferguson again became a regular umpire but he left the Atlantics, along with pitcher Tommy Bond, to become the player/captain of the Hartford Dark Blues. This would be his first, and most successful, of three straight winning seasons with the Dark Blues. The team would finish in second place at 54–28, 18½ games behind Harry Wright's powerful Boston Red Stockings. As for the Atlantics, they started the season at 2-11 and finished with a 31-game losing streak and a 12th place finish.

                              Ferguson became a League Director when the National League was formed in 1876. He was involved in a landmark decision that season. Jim Devlin, a pitcher for the Louisville Grays, wanted to be released from his contract. He claimed that the team had failed to fulfill the terms of his contract. Surrounding Devlin were rumors of "hippodroming." Ferguson, along with fellow League Directors Nicholas Appolonio, Boston President and St. Louis club Secretary Charles Chase ruled in favor of the Gray's VP Charles Chase. Devlin was compelled to remain with the Grays. The following season, Devlin and three other teammates, SS/2B William Craver, OF George Hall and 3B Al Nichols would be suspended for life for throwing games. Devlin would attempt for a number of years to be reinstated, but never was.

                              In 1878, Al Spalding hired Ferguson to captain the Chicago White Stockings. Spalding openly said he admired Ferguson's style and leadership that made the Hartford teams successful. Ferguson personally had his most successful season as a player. He hit .351, third in the league, led the league in on-base percentage, tied for fourth in RBI and ranked fourth in hits. The supposedly high-powered White Stockings finished at .500. In Spalding's memoirs he called Ferguson "tactless" and hopelessly lacking any knowledge "of the subtle science of handling men by strategy rather than by force." Spalding's harsh words helped end Ferguson's career as a player and manager.

                              In 1879, Ferguson played in only 30 games and managed the last 29 games for the Troy Trojans. He also resumed umpiring for the National League. From 1880–1882 he managed and played full time for the Trojans but did not umpire. Ferguson played for and managed the Philadelphia Quakers in the National League in 1883, but was replaced by Blondie Purcell with just 17 games remaining.

                              On August 21, the Quakers traveled to Providence to play the Grays. He needed to increase ticket sales on the road because the American Association entry in Philadelphia had forced the Quakers to reduce prices to 25 cents a game. He gave the ball to Rhode Island native Art Hagen who had several rough outings during a recent road trip. Ferguson hoped Hagen's appearance would draw the locals. The people came in large numbers to watch the hometown hero. Hagen surrendered 28 runs and the Quakers made 20 errors behind him. Philadelphia didn't score and to this day it's still the most lopsided shutout in major league history. Ferguson was labeled a sadist for not relieving him.

                              Ferguson found work in the American Association in 1884 with the Pittsburgh Alleghenys. He would be the second of five managers for the team that season and he would also play the last 10 games of his career. He returned to umpiring in the National League for the first time in four years, working part-time in '84 and full-time during the '85 season.

                              In 1886, 17 games into the season, Ferguson took over the managing duties for the New York Metropolitans, in the American Association and finished eighth. He also became an umpire in the A.A. in 1886 and continued until 1889. Ferguson would begin the season managing the Metropolitans in '87 but was replaced 30 games into the season.


                              Ferguson would never again manage. He turned full-time to umpiring and was a replacement umpire in the first game of the first all-New York World Series in '89 between the New York Giants and the Brooklyn Bridegrooms. He worked for the Players league in 1890 and returned to the A.A. in 1891 and then retired. Ferguson would pass away in Brooklyn on May 5, 1894, at the age of 49.

                              Ferguson would play in 562 games and manage another 949. He was the only person to umpire in four leagues in the 19th century as well as the only person to be an umpire, player, manager and league official at one time. Unfortunately, he is only remembered for one thing:
                              Question: Who was the first switch-hitter in professional baseball?
                              Answer: Bob Ferguson.


                              Source: http://www.19cbaseball.com/players2.html
                              Last edited by Baseball Guru; 07-22-2006, 08:21 PM.
                              "There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.
                              ~~Al Gallagher


                              God Bless America!

                              Click here to see my baseball tribute site!

                              Click here to see the best pitcher NOT in the HOF!

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                              • #30
                                PAUL HINES (1852–1935)

                                Paul Hines played in 1,659 games in three leagues, from 1872 through 1891, had 2,135 hits, hit over .300 eleven times and posted a career batting average of .302. Despite his successful career, Paul Hines would be all but forgotten today if not for the fact that he was involved in thirteen major league “firsts.”


                                Hines was born in 1852 in Washington, DC and first played infield for the Washington Nationals of the National Association in 1872. His first season was short lived as the 0–11 Nationals disbanded after a 9–1 loss to the Baltimore Canaries on June 26.

                                In 1873 Hines played for the reorganized Washington team (who changed their name to the Blue Legs), and hit over .300 for the first time. From 1874 through 1877 he played centerfield, his primary position for the rest of his career, for the Chicago White Stockings. During this time Hines would attain his first “first.” In 1876 the White Stockings would become the first National League Champions.

                                Hines moved to Rhode Island and played for the Providence Grays from 1878 through 1885. Here he would collect the twelve other “firsts.” His initial year with the Grays, Hines would become the first to record an unassisted triple play. In the third game of the season, after Providence had taken a 3–0 lead in the top of the eighth, the Boston Red Caps got one back in the bottom of the inning and had Ezra Sutton on second and Jack Manning on third with none out. Second baseman Jack Burdock hit a short fly ball over shortstop Tom Carey. From his centerfield position Hines made a running catch and continued toward third and stepped on the bag to put out both Manning and Sutton, who had proceeded home. According to the rules of 1878, if both runners had passed third base when Hines stepped on the bag, they were both immediately out. Hines threw to second baseman Charlie Sweasy who stepped on second to retire Sutton. It has been debated whether this was necessary. Some reports say that both men had passed third and were on their way home and some say that Sutton was on his way back to second. Either way Paul Hines has been given credit for accomplishing the feat.


                                His third and fourth “firsts” came in 1878, although he would not be given credit for one until 1968, 33 years after his death. At the conclusion of the season Hines along with LF Tom York and RF Dick Higham formed the first all .300-hitting outfield in NL history. As for the other, the NL crowned Milwaukee Grays LF Abner Dalrymple the batting champ for hitting .356. Dalrymple was considered to be the first rookie to win a batting title. But in 1878, hits made in tie games were not counted. So after recalculating the final averages Dalrymple’s .354 came up short to Hines’ .358. Hines also led the league in RBI with 50, and home runs with 4, so in fact, Hines was the first major leaguer to win the Triple Crown.

                                More investigation helped Hines gain his fifth “first” in 1879. Spalding's Official Base Ball Guide awarded the 1879 batting title to Chicago White Stockings first baseman, Cap Anson with a .407 average. Spalding claimed Anson had compiled 90 hits in 221 at bats. Years later, a subsequent investigation showed that in fact, Anson had only 72 hits in 227 at bats for a .317 average. Hines hit .357 in 1879, the highest average that year and the first major leaguer to lead the National League in batting average for two consecutive years. Also in 1879, the National League introduced, for one season only, the “Reached First Base” statistic. It included times reached via hits, walks and errors, but not hit by pitch because batter did not receive a base after being hit in 1879. Paul Hines, in 85 games, reached first base 193 times to lead the league—his sixth “first.”


                                In 1882, Hines became the first player to wear sunglasses during a major league game, and on September 25 played in the first true doubleheader in National League history. The Grays split the two games with the Worcester Ruby Legs in the first instance of two games for the price of one.

                                His final five "firsts" came in 1884. More specifically the 1884 World Series. He was the first National Leaguer to bat in World Series history. During that at bat he became the first batter to be hit by a pitch (the game was played under American Association rules which allowed a batter to receive his base after being hit by a pitched ball). In the third inning he got the first hit in National League World Series history, a single. He scored the first run in World Series play that same inning after a passed ball and two wild pitches by New York Metropolitans’ starter Tim Keefe. Hines’ Providence Grays beat New York three games to none to win the first World Series.


                                Hines would return to Washington and play for the Nationals of the National League for the 1886 and 1887 seasons and hit over .300 both years. He played for the Indianapolis Hoosiers in 1887 and 1888, hitting .308. In 1890, he patrolled centerfield for the Pittsburgh Infants for 31 games, and then, in the same season, moved to the Boston Beaneaters for 69 games. The 39-year-old Hines finished his career back home with the Washington Nationals of the American Association in 1891.

                                In 1920, Hines was arrested in Washington, where he worked for the Department of Agriculture Post Office, for pick pocketing. He would die 15 years later still not knowing he was the first major league Triple Crown winner and a two-time batting champ.


                                Source: http://www.19cbaseball.com/players5.html
                                "There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.
                                ~~Al Gallagher


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