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Depression of the 1890s

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  • #16
    are there many baseball fans to chat with in sweden near you?

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    • #17
      Nope, nary a one of them. My sole connection to baseball discussion lies within public forums like these or private chats with guys like Joltin' Joe or Sultan, although the last six or seven months I've been pretty much half time between Stockholm and Munich- and in Munich there's a few guys that at least understand the sport.

      I'm a Houston boy from the start, and I got a package from my mom last week (and, by the way, my mom out stats and outargues all of us, but she hates and fears the internet because she's kind of old- how many people do we miss out on because of that?) with the official NL champs shirt in it.

      I love my mom. Thing is, I really didn't care if we won or lost the series- I really didn't. I just wanted to be there. Mom took me to my first Astros game in 1970; we sat through game 5 in 1980 together behind third base, I saw Nolan Ryan's fifth no-hitter as a birthday present (my birthday's september 28th, but I don't think mom and Nolie arranged it together; I think he just wung it), I watched us blow it in 86 because of one umpire's bad call, I lived through Rader, Metzger, Cedeno, Cruz (our family's all time hero- hands down- forget about Cobb, Ruth, Williams, etc.) the B's, damnit, everybody!

      This year- I was so so very happy just to BE there. You got no idea (well, maybe you do).
      "Here's a crazy thought I've always had: if they cut three fingers off each hand, I'd really be a great hitter because then I could level off better." Paul Waner (lifetime .333 hitter, 3,152 lifetime hits.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by steveox
        I dont know anything about baseball in late 19th century.But i do know hot dogs ,popcorn and cokes were very very cheap back then.I bet tickets even cost a quarter.
        Standard National League admission price was 50 cents, standard American Association price was 25 cents. 25 cent admission was part of the AA's marketing strategy of 25 cent admission, beer served, baseball on Sunday. NL wanted to lure "higher class" clientele with no beer, no Sunday ball, and higher 50 cent price. After the settlement, in the 1890's, teams were allowed to sell tickets at 25 cents and many of the old AA teams did so. When the American League went big time in 1901, they instituted the AA's old 25 cent admission policy which helped them win fans in cities where they competed directly such as Boston, Philly and Chicago, and later St. Louis and NY.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by southendgrounds
          Standard National League admission price was 50 cents, standard American Association price was 25 cents. 25 cent admission was part of the AA's marketing strategy of 25 cent admission, beer served, baseball on Sunday. NL wanted to lure "higher class" clientele with no beer, no Sunday ball, and higher 50 cent price. After the settlement, in the 1890's, teams were allowed to sell tickets at 25 cents and many of the old AA teams did so. When the American League went big time in 1901, they instituted the AA's old 25 cent admission policy which helped them win fans in cities where they competed directly such as Boston, Philly and Chicago, and later St. Louis and NY.
          Also helping was the expiration of the National Agreement, a favorable economy, and a two-year vacancy in the National League presidency. The Boston Somersets ignored all reservation rights, as did the whole AL, and raided the Beaneaters, nabbing Jimmy Collins, Chick Stahl, and Buck Freeman.
          It gave the Americans the upper hand in the Hub, which they never really relinquished.

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          • #20
            interestingly beaneaters manager frank selee fired the first shot in the battle for players between the al and nl when he ignored reservation rights and contacted comiskey's dick padden on 12/12/1900 -- at least as far as we know

            the current red sox were a late comer - boston wasn't officially announced as an al city until 1/23/1901

            i guess collins was the main recruiter in boston - but it wasn't a hard sell - an unrecognized soldier here was clark griffith who had been the most vocal member of the union - he had been advising players since early in 1900 not to sign nl contracts for 1901

            the nl presidency was vacant but the league was run by the forerunner of the national commission - a three-man committee - jim hart of chicago, arthur soden of boston and was chaired by john brush - three capable men

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            • #21
              Originally posted by bkmckenna
              interestingly beaneaters manager frank selee fired the first shot in the battle for players between the al and nl when he ignored reservation rights and contacted comiskey's dick padden on 12/12/1900 -- at least as far as we know

              the current red sox were a late comer - boston wasn't officially announced as an al city until 1/23/1901

              i guess collins was the main recruiter in boston - but it wasn't a hard sell - an unrecognized soldier here was clark griffith who had been the most vocal member of the union - he had been advising players since early in 1900 not to sign nl contracts for 1901

              the nl presidency was vacant but the league was run by the forerunner of the national commission - a three-man committee - jim hart of chicago, arthur soden of boston and was chaired by john brush - three capable men
              Arthur Soden was nearing the end of his rein in Boston. I have the feeling that this cheapskate was very important in the Beaneaters/Braves deterioration in Boston. Do you know much about him?

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              • #22
                yeah - of course he started the reserve system

                from baseball's first stars
                mass. native
                druggist before entering union army
                opened a roofing business in boston
                amateur ballplayer
                on the 1874 england tour with boston red stockings as an outfielder - bought into team and eventually gained control in 1877
                lent ny club $60K and became a minority stock holder in '92 i think
                became a powerful figure in nl following death of hulbert in 1882
                sold club in 1906 - worked in roofing business until death

                he was a well-known cheapskate like you said so it was easy to lure his men away - i know the griffith (of chi) couldn't stand him - grif, one of the insurrection leaders 1900-01, asked soden for two tickets to a game one day in 1900 - he was refused - at the meetings forming the players' union grif spoke rather candidly that he wanted to "screw (my word)" soden in any way he could and used this as fuel, in his mind at least, to drive the union - grif later embarrassed soden in front of reporters proving him to be a liar during union negotiations - plus grif was a leading recruiter for the al - not sure of the specifics but i would venture to guess he specifically targeted some of soden's men

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                • #23
                  I don't think Soden was on good terms with James Billings either, a fellow triumvir. I didn't realize that Soden was in Baseball's First Stars.

                  Somewhere I read that ball players considered it an honor to be a "reserved" player. At least at first. Thanks for the info.

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