Shutouts

[Brian McKenna]

i've been looking at a bunch of 19th century box scores lately - what really jumped out at me is the number of errors and unearned runs, especially in the minors, but to a great extent in the majors - it must have been extremely difficult to throw a shutout - especially if you weren't a hard thrower like cy young, amos rusie or kid nichols - one of the top pitchers of the era was clark griffith who didn't have a speedball - he only threw 5 shutouts through 1900

i also have the feeling that since so many games were started and finished by the same pitcher - pitchers tended to let up a little in the later innings if they had a comfortable lead - some articles seemed to say as much - but that could have been dramatic prose

[Larry Bigbie]

Well

obviously shout outs weren't a problem maybe because of the incredible amount of IP and GS. The erros is the cause of players not wearing gloves and if they did wear gloves they were very primitive it it must have HURT! With, or without a glove you'd end of dropping a ball if it's a hard liner or just avoiding it all together. Also it must have been harder to get control of the ball and that would have lead to worse throw. Fielders also had much more ground to cover because I think if a ball went foul then rolled fair it was fair! Players would have alot more ground to cover. To a much lesser extent some players betted alot and would purposly make errors to blow the game. One SS made over 70 errors one year and 9 double plays and it was later found he betted on games.

[Brian McKenna]

that's a good point - i wonder if there was a lesser shutout:complete game ratio during the 19th century

by the way - welcome bigbie - nice to see another oriole fan around

[RuthMayBond]

that's a good point - i wonder if there was a lesser shutout:complete game ratio during the 19th century

The ratio of SHO/CG back then must have been microscopic. 1894 had 31 shutouts for the year

[Larry Bigbie]

Yeah

of the top of my head Pud Galvin had over 70 CG in 84 and 12 SHO. Bad.

[RuthMayBond]

of the top of my head Pud Galvin had over 70 CG in 84 and 12 SHO. Bad.

Oh, in 1884, Charlie Ferguson had 46 CG and two shutouts :grouchy

[Larry Bigbie]

Randy Johnson for his career has 93 CG 37 SHO Kid Nichols has 531 CG and 48 SHO.

[RuthMayBond]

Randy Johnson for his career has 93 CG 37 SHO Kid Nichols has 531 CG and 48 SHO.

Heck, Bobby Mathews had 525 CG and only 19 SHO

[TonyK]

Shutouts tended to follow the offense/defense league stats...in 1894, Ruth mentioned only 31 Shutouts in the NL with the LG AVG of .309. Jump to 1899 and the shutouts triple while the LG AVG went down into the .280's I think.

A few pitchers had 12 shutouts in a season during the 1800's. Many others were able to record 5 or more shutouts, including Cy Young with 9 one season. I bet quite a few pitchers lost shutouts in the 9th innings because they were tired.

[It's Over The Wall!]

I've Noticed That There Is A Big Difference Of Runs And ER For 19th Century Pitchers.

[Brian McKenna]

I've Noticed That There Is A Big Difference Of Runs And ER For 19th Century Pitchers.

page through some minor league box scores from the 1880s - you might see 19 runs scored and only 5 earned

[ItsOnlyGil]

Yet in the Nation's Centennial year, Grin Bradley reportedly posted 16 shutouts.

[TonyK]

Yet in the Nation's Centennial year, Grin Bradley reportedly posted 16 shutouts.

The rest of the NL only had 31 combined. According to research by Jim Rygelski, 11 of George Bradley's shutouts were at home and his team supplied him with very dead balls. One of his shutouts happened to be the first no hitter in NL history. He was another player who played in four different major leagues...NA, NL, AA and UA.

[Beady]

But complete games aren't a meaningful measure at all when the rules allow substitution only in the case of injury. If Randy Johnson could be relieved only on condition that he either sprain an ankle or trade places with the right fielder, his CG% would certainly be immensely higher than it is, but his ratio of ShO to CG would be a lot lower.

That's assuming Johnson would be able to pitch at all under 1880's conditions. I'd guess he would have done fine, but there's really no way to know which modern pitchers could adjust and which couldn't.

[hubkittel]

According to research by Jim Rygelski, 11 of George Bradley's shutouts were at home and his team supplied him with very dead balls.

In October of 1877, one of the Chicago papers had a long piece on the struggles of the Chicago club and specifically mentioned that one of the reasons for Bradley's poor season was that he was no longer using a "soft" ball.

On the subject of shutouts and complete games, on August 17, 1876 while with the Red Stockings of St. Louis, Pud Galvin pitched in two games in a tournament in Ionia, Michigan. According to the StL Globe-Democrat, in the first game Galvin threw a complete game shutout, allowing only one hit. In the second game, he threw the first documented perfect game in baseball history. Some sources have Galvin throwing a no-hitter in the first game (it all depending on which scorer was considered "official") so he might have actually thrown a no-hitter and a perfect game in back to back games on the same day. That's a heck of a pitching day.

The Reds that season committed somewhere around nine errors a game (and were described as a very good defensive team). So it's easy to see how difficult it was to stop a team from scoring runs when a decent fielding club was giving up nine errors a game or more.