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Your Top 10 19th Century Players:

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  • Your Top 10 19th Century Players:

    Who do you think the best 19th century player is? I'd say King Kelly. He was a great fielder, a great hitter, and he could play any position. This poll is only about position players. Even though many of the players in the poll were also good pitchers, that doesn't count for this poll.

    The question for this poll is like this: The year is 1900, and you have access to all modern stats. You are making a list of 20 greatest players. Who do you rank #1?

    If you voted other in the poll, be sure to tell us who you think is the best.
    92
    Cap Anson
    40.22%
    37
    King Kelly
    11.96%
    11
    Buck Ewing
    6.52%
    6
    Sam Thompson
    1.09%
    1
    Ed Delahanty
    13.04%
    12
    George Gore
    0.00%
    0
    Mike Donlin
    0.00%
    0
    Charlie Bennett
    0.00%
    0
    Ross Barnes
    2.17%
    2
    George Wright
    0.00%
    0
    Roger Connor
    0.00%
    0
    John McGraw
    3.26%
    3
    Billy Hamilton
    2.17%
    2
    Willie Keeler
    2.17%
    2
    Hughie Jennings
    0.00%
    0
    Bid McPhee
    0.00%
    0
    Herman Long
    0.00%
    0
    Bill Dahlen
    1.09%
    1
    Jesse Burkett
    0.00%
    0
    Paul Hines
    0.00%
    0
    Joe Start
    0.00%
    0
    George Van Haltren
    0.00%
    0
    Bob Caruthers
    0.00%
    0
    Hugh Duffy
    1.09%
    1
    Other
    5.43%
    5
    Dan Brouthers
    9.78%
    9
    Bill Lange
    0.00%
    0
    Pete Browning
    0.00%
    0

  • #2
    My top 10 19th century players:

    1.King Kelly
    2.Billy Hamilton
    3.Cap Anson
    4.Buck Ewing
    5.John McGraw
    6.Roger Connor
    7.Ed Delahanty
    8.Hughie Jennings
    9.Bill Dahlen
    10.Sam Thompson

    Comment


    • #3
      No Dan Brouthers?

      Comment


      • #4
        Ed Delahanty or Dan Brouthers

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by julusnc
          No Dan Brouthers?
          Brouthers needs to be on this poll! :atthepc

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by csh19792001
            Brouthers needs to be on this poll! :atthepc
            Rats, I forgot him, I knew I forgot somone. Could a mod please help and add him?

            Comment


            • #7
              No Bill Lange?

              I'll take Ewing anyway. A lot of those guys were great, but when you get comparable production from a catcher, you take it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MasonDixon
                No Bill Lange?

                I'll take Ewing anyway. A lot of those guys were great, but when you get comparable production from a catcher, you take it.
                Damn are you related to Bill?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by julusnc
                  Damn are you related to Bill?
                  No, but I wanted to be the first one to note the absence of Bill Lange.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Jim Creighton.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by westsidegrounds
                      Jim Creighton.
                      The esteemed gentleman Jim. First star in baseball history.

                      And C. Montgomery Burns' center fielder!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My Slate of Candidates For the Greatest Players of the 19th Century:


                        1. Buck Ewing, 1880-97, NL catcher, 1880-92, , IF, OF, 3B, 2B, P, NL manager, 1890, 1895-1900
                        In the spring of 1892, Buck threw out the forearm muscle of his throwing forearm. And that spelled the end of his great player days.

                        2. Cap Anson

                        3. Herman Long, NL SS, 1889-1904, All time glove. Scored lots of runs in his peak, hit well 1894-97.

                        4. Bill Lange, 1893-1899, NL OF. After the 1899 season, Bill left baseball, after only 7 seasons.

                        5. Ned Williamson, NL 3B/SS: 1878-1890
                        Played 8 seasons at 3rd, then 4 at SS, and finished with 52 g. at 3rd/21 at SS. Great glove, led league once each at doubles, HRs, Walks. In 1894, Reach Guide cited a 9 person poll, and James Hart, James O'Rourke and Arthur Irwin called Ned Williamson the games greatest player. He was also named in a 1938 article in Spalding Guide as one of the best ever 3Bmen.

                        6. Hughie Jennings, ML SS, 1B, 1891 - 1902; Detroit manager, 1907-20; Giants coach, 1921-25

                        7. Dan Brouthers

                        8. Ed Delahanty

                        9. Willie Keeler

                        10. Michael "King" Kelly

                        Honorable Mentions:

                        11. Charlie Bennett, (NL catcher, 1878 - 1893)
                        Kid Nichols, "Charley Bennett was the best catcher during my time. He worked with me in Boston until he lost his legs in a railroad accident. He went through several seasons without having a passed ball. He never had an equal as a throw to bases." Bennett was the catcher of the world champion Detroit Team of 1887.

                        On January 12, 1894, at the age of 39, while still active as a ballplayer, Charlie Bennett was run over by a train at Wellsville, KS, and had to have both his legs amputated. Detroit's ballpark was subsequently named after Charlie.

                        12. Jimmy McAleer, (ML OF, 1889-98, 01-02,07), (ML manager, 1901-11)
                        1. James R. McAleer's entry in the 1932 Official Baseball Guide. Here is an excerpt. "No outfielder has lived who could cover more ground than McAleer, and perhaps none who could cover as much back of him and to either side. He made sensational catches appear easy."

                        13. Martin Bergen, Red Sox catcher, 1896 - 1899, In 1898 Bergen was the best catcher in the National league, and his gingery work behind the bat did a great deal to win the pennant for the Boston team that season. in 1897 he caught in nearly all the championship games in first-class style.

                        Bergen was one of the greatest defensive catchers that ever donned a mask. Possessed of an arm of steel, he snapped the ball around the infield like a shot, and was regarded as the equal of Buck Ewing in point of throwing ability. He was well-nigh perfect on foul flies, and a timely, reliable batsman.

                        On January 19, 1900, at the age of 28, Martin Bergen, due to mental illness, killed his wife, daughter, son and himself.

                        14. Dummy Hoy, NL CF, 1888-1902, exc. 1890 Player's L., 1891, a L.

                        15. Jimmy Ryan, NL OF, 1885-1903, defensive great, led L. in H, D, HR, SLG. in 1888. Was with Cap Anson's Chicago Cubs all but last 2 yrs.
                        Midway through his career, on August 6, 1893, at 6AM, while with his Chicago Cubs team mates on a train, was horribly injured in a Lake Shore train crash.

                        16. George Gore, NL OF, 1879-1892, great defense, with Cap Anson's Chicago Cubs, 1879-1886. Led L. twice in R, 3 times in Walks. In 1890, only played 77 g., but led L. in BA, OBP, SLG.
                        Last edited by Bill Burgess; 03-28-2008, 06:06 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by [email protected]
                          My Slate of Candidates For the Greatest Players of the 19th Century:


                          1. Buck Ewing

                          2. Cap Anson

                          3. Herman Long

                          4. Bill Lange

                          5. Ned Williamson

                          6. Hughie Jennings

                          7. Ed Delahanty

                          8. Dan Brouthers

                          10. Willie Keeler

                          11. Mikael "King" Kelly

                          12. Charlie Bennett
                          Bill,

                          No Roger Connor? He was the best slugger ever until Babe Ruth, and I think he held the home run record until Ruth broke it. Why no Roger Connor in your list?

                          Roger Connor

                          OPS+-154 (25th all-time)
                          Batter-Fielder Wins-43.4
                          Win Shares-363 (29.45 per 162 games)
                          Black Ink-31 (avg. HOFer=27)
                          Gray Ink-269 (avg. HOFer=144)
                          HOF Standards-55.7 (avg. HOFer 50)
                          HOF Monitor-104 (likely HOFer 100)

                          Compare that with Cap Anson, the other great 19th century first baseman:

                          Cap Anson

                          OPS+-139
                          Batter-Fielder Wins-35.4
                          Win Shares-381 (27.12 per 162 games)
                          Black Ink-52
                          Gray Ink-358
                          HOF Standards-63.4
                          HOF Monitor-182.5

                          Anson is better by Black Ink, Gray Ink, HOF Standards, and HOF Monitor. Connor is better by OPS+ and Batter-Fielder Wins. Anson has more career win shares, but Connor is better per 162 games. Make your own judgements.

                          I would rank Anson higher, just because he has better longevity. However, I think Connor had the better peak. They were both greats, and I don't understand how Bill could possibly not call Connor one of the 12 best 19th century players.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Chris,

                            I am not that strong in pre-1900 players. That and Negro L. has always been some of my weak areas. I haven't looked into Roger Connor that much. But I'll take your word for it.

                            Bil

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by [email protected]
                              Chris,

                              I am not that strong in pre-1900 players. That and Negro L. has always been some of my weak areas. I haven't looked into Roger Connor that much. But I'll take your word for it.

                              Bil
                              Bill,

                              I thought you had an ego, but maybe I was wrong. You are probably the most knowledgeable person on the Negro Leagues and 19th century players on all of BBF. I'm not that stong on 19th century players, which is why I forgot some players on the poll, such as Dan Brouthers and Ned Williamson. I am stong on the Negro Leagues, but you are stronger there than most too. Maybe you just forgot Connor.

                              Comment

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