Your Top 10 19th Century Players:

[538280]

Who do you think the best 19th century player is? I'd say King Kelly. He was a great fielder, a great hitter, and he could play any position. This poll is only about position players. Even though many of the players in the poll were also good pitchers, that doesn't count for this poll.

The question for this poll is like this: The year is 1900, and you have access to all modern stats. You are making a list of 20 greatest players. Who do you rank #1?

If you voted other in the poll, be sure to tell us who you think is the best.

[538280]

My top 10 19th century players:

1.King Kelly
2.Billy Hamilton
3.Cap Anson
4.Buck Ewing
5.John McGraw
6.Roger Connor
7.Ed Delahanty
8.Hughie Jennings
9.Bill Dahlen
10.Sam Thompson

[julusnc]

No Dan Brouthers?

[julusnc]

Ed Delahanty or Dan Brouthers

[csh19792001]

No Dan Brouthers?

Brouthers needs to be on this poll! :atthepc

[538280]

Brouthers needs to be on this poll! :atthepc

Rats, I forgot him, I knew I forgot somone. Could a mod please help and add him?

[MasonDixon]

No Bill Lange?

I'll take Ewing anyway. A lot of those guys were great, but when you get comparable production from a catcher, you take it.

[julusnc]

No Bill Lange?

I'll take Ewing anyway. A lot of those guys were great, but when you get comparable production from a catcher, you take it.

Damn are you related to Bill?

[MasonDixon]

Damn are you related to Bill?

No, but I wanted to be the first one to note the absence of Bill Lange.

[westsidegrounds]

Jim Creighton.

[csh19792001]

Jim Creighton.

The esteemed gentleman Jim. First star in baseball history.

And C. Montgomery Burns' center fielder!

[Bill Burgess]

My Slate of Candidates For the Greatest Players of the 19th Century:


1. Buck Ewing, 1880-97, NL catcher, 1880-92, , IF, OF, 3B, 2B, P, NL manager, 1890, 1895-1900
In the spring of 1892, Buck threw out the forearm muscle of his throwing forearm. And that spelled the end of his great player days.

2. Cap Anson

3. Herman Long, NL SS, 1889-1904, All time glove. Scored lots of runs in his peak, hit well 1894-97.

4. Bill Lange, 1893-1899, NL OF. After the 1899 season, Bill left baseball, after only 7 seasons.

5. Ned Williamson, NL 3B/SS: 1878-1890
Played 8 seasons at 3rd, then 4 at SS, and finished with 52 g. at 3rd/21 at SS. Great glove, led league once each at doubles, HRs, Walks. In 1894, Reach Guide cited a 9 person poll, and James Hart, James O'Rourke and Arthur Irwin called Ned Williamson the games greatest player. He was also named in a 1938 article in Spalding Guide as one of the best ever 3Bmen.

6. Hughie Jennings, ML SS, 1B, 1891 - 1902; Detroit manager, 1907-20; Giants coach, 1921-25

7. Dan Brouthers

8. Ed Delahanty

9. Willie Keeler

10. Michael "King" Kelly

Honorable Mentions:

11. Charlie Bennett, (NL catcher, 1878 - 1893)
Kid Nichols, "Charley Bennett was the best catcher during my time. He worked with me in Boston until he lost his legs in a railroad accident. He went through several seasons without having a passed ball. He never had an equal as a throw to bases." Bennett was the catcher of the world champion Detroit Team of 1887.

On January 12, 1894, at the age of 39, while still active as a ballplayer, Charlie Bennett was run over by a train at Wellsville, KS, and had to have both his legs amputated. Detroit's ballpark was subsequently named after Charlie.

12. Jimmy McAleer, (ML OF, 1889-98, 01-02,07), (ML manager, 1901-11)
1. James R. McAleer's entry in the 1932 Official Baseball Guide. Here is an excerpt. "No outfielder has lived who could cover more ground than McAleer, and perhaps none who could cover as much back of him and to either side. He made sensational catches appear easy."

13. Martin Bergen, Red Sox catcher, 1896 - 1899, In 1898 Bergen was the best catcher in the National league, and his gingery work behind the bat did a great deal to win the pennant for the Boston team that season. in 1897 he caught in nearly all the championship games in first-class style.

Bergen was one of the greatest defensive catchers that ever donned a mask. Possessed of an arm of steel, he snapped the ball around the infield like a shot, and was regarded as the equal of Buck Ewing in point of throwing ability. He was well-nigh perfect on foul flies, and a timely, reliable batsman.

On January 19, 1900, at the age of 28, Martin Bergen, due to mental illness, killed his wife, daughter, son and himself.

14. Dummy Hoy, NL CF, 1888-1902, exc. 1890 Player's L., 1891, a L.

15. Jimmy Ryan, NL OF, 1885-1903, defensive great, led L. in H, D, HR, SLG. in 1888. Was with Cap Anson's Chicago Cubs all but last 2 yrs.
Midway through his career, on August 6, 1893, at 6AM, while with his Chicago Cubs team mates on a train, was horribly injured in a Lake Shore train crash.

16. George Gore, NL OF, 1879-1892, great defense, with Cap Anson's Chicago Cubs, 1879-1886. Led L. twice in R, 3 times in Walks. In 1890, only played 77 g., but led L. in BA, OBP, SLG.

[538280]

My Slate of Candidates For the Greatest Players of the 19th Century:


1. Buck Ewing

2. Cap Anson

3. Herman Long

4. Bill Lange

5. Ned Williamson

6. Hughie Jennings

7. Ed Delahanty

8. Dan Brouthers

10. Willie Keeler

11. Mikael "King" Kelly

12. Charlie Bennett

Bill,

No Roger Connor? He was the best slugger ever until Babe Ruth, and I think he held the home run record until Ruth broke it. Why no Roger Connor in your list?

Roger Connor

OPS+-154 (25th all-time)
Batter-Fielder Wins-43.4
Win Shares-363 (29.45 per 162 games)
Black Ink-31 (avg. HOFer=27)
Gray Ink-269 (avg. HOFer=144)
HOF Standards-55.7 (avg. HOFer 50)
HOF Monitor-104 (likely HOFer 100)

Compare that with Cap Anson, the other great 19th century first baseman:

Cap Anson

OPS+-139
Batter-Fielder Wins-35.4
Win Shares-381 (27.12 per 162 games)
Black Ink-52
Gray Ink-358
HOF Standards-63.4
HOF Monitor-182.5

Anson is better by Black Ink, Gray Ink, HOF Standards, and HOF Monitor. Connor is better by OPS+ and Batter-Fielder Wins. Anson has more career win shares, but Connor is better per 162 games. Make your own judgements.

I would rank Anson higher, just because he has better longevity. However, I think Connor had the better peak. They were both greats, and I don't understand how Bill could possibly not call Connor one of the 12 best 19th century players.

[Bill Burgess]

Chris,

I am not that strong in pre-1900 players. That and Negro L. has always been some of my weak areas. I haven't looked into Roger Connor that much. But I'll take your word for it.

Bil

[538280]

Chris,

I am not that strong in pre-1900 players. That and Negro L. has always been some of my weak areas. I haven't looked into Roger Connor that much. But I'll take your word for it.

Bil

Bill,

I thought you had an ego, but maybe I was wrong. You are probably the most knowledgeable person on the Negro Leagues and 19th century players on all of BBF. I'm not that stong on 19th century players, which is why I forgot some players on the poll, such as Dan Brouthers and Ned Williamson. I am stong on the Negro Leagues, but you are stronger there than most too. Maybe you just forgot Connor.