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Your Top 10 19th Century Players:

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  • Buzzaldrin
    replied
    Caruthers played 10 seasons. Only 9 as a pitcher, but he played one more season (1893) as an outfielder so he is eligible for the Hall.

    Leave a comment:


  • Herr28
    replied
    Originally posted by leecemark View Post
    --I tend to give less credit to AA stars like O'Neil, it being the weaker league at a time when LQ was pretty low even in the NL. Caruthers is an exception since he was a terrific pitcher AND a really good hitter. I think he definatley belongs in the Hall of Fame. Hugh Duffy was a very good hitter and a very good defensive outfielder. I think he deserves his plaque, but he isn't going to rank all that high on my list of all time greats. Keeler was perhaps the best contact hitter of his era. He was Ichirific .
    I was thinking they should make an exception to the 10 year rule for Caruthers, who only played 9 I think, just because he was so exceptional on both sides of the ball. I know that was more common back then, but still, he really did very well in both his roles as a P and good hitting OFer. Kinda like Babe Ruth, before there was a George Ruth!

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  • leecemark
    replied
    --I tend to give less credit to AA stars like O'Neil, it being the weaker league at a time when LQ was pretty low even in the NL. Caruthers is an exception since he was a terrific pitcher AND a really good hitter. I think he definatley belongs in the Hall of Fame. Hugh Duffy was a very good hitter and a very good defensive outfielder. I think he deserves his plaque, but he isn't going to rank all that high on my list of all time greats. Keeler was perhaps the best contact hitter of his era. He was Ichirific .

    Leave a comment:


  • Herr28
    replied
    I really need to learn more about the 19th century stars. I have only been reading about the stars on the St. Louis Browns/Perfectos/Cardinals in my enormous Cardinal history book. Most of these guys, I only recognize their names from lists of Hall of Fame guys, or like Glasscock, from conversations here. The only one I know a bit about is Cap Anson, being that he is the most famous position player to come from Iowa (Bob Feller is the greatest pitcher from Iowa, and probably more well known these days to most fans than Anson).

    For you guys that know a lot more about this era, where do you put guys like Tip O'Neill, Hugh Duffy, Wee Willie Keeler, and Bob Caruthers? Would Parisian Bob make a list for best player, due to his value as both a 200+ game winning pitcher and excellent hitter while in the OF? Just curious. I don't know if he just gets simply tossed into the pitchers rankings for ease.

    Leave a comment:


  • leecemark
    replied
    Originally posted by csh19792001 View Post
    I voted for Anson back in 2005 when this poll was started.

    And here's the entire book "A Ball Player's Career uploaded, for free!! And it's FASINATING, and one hell of a read!!!!


    First baseball (or, for that matter, sports biography in history!) Enjoy!
    --Thanks for the link. Anson isn't exactly a compelling story teller, but there is some great first hand info about early baseball in there. 70 pages in so far and loving it.

    Leave a comment:


  • leecemark
    replied
    --Pretty sure, yes. They shifted things administratively some and it was probably necessary to build a league that was going to grow and last. The game on the field didn't really change though. It was almost all the same players out there. Of course neither was exactly a great league and you have to start counting somewhere. I just think 1871 is as good a place as 1876.

    Leave a comment:


  • csh19792001
    replied
    Originally posted by leecemark View Post
    --There really wasn't a nickels worth of difference between the NA of 1875 and the NL of 1876.
    You sure about that, Mark?

    Leave a comment:


  • leecemark
    replied
    --That cuts at least 5 years off Anson's career. There really wasn't a nickels worth of difference between the NA of 1875 and the NL of 1876. I see no reason to disregard the NA even with MLB chooses to do so.

    Leave a comment:


  • csh19792001
    replied
    I voted for Anson back in 2005 when this poll was started.

    And here's the entire book "A Ball Player's Career uploaded, for free!! And it's FASINATING, and one hell of a read!!!!


    First baseball (or, for that matter, sports biography in history!) Enjoy!

    Leave a comment:


  • csh19792001
    replied
    Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
    1. Anson
    2. Glasscock
    3. Delahanty
    4. Ewing
    5. Hamilton
    6. Brouthers
    7. O'Rourke
    8. Ward
    9. Davis
    10. Dahlen
    FWIW, among primarily position players:
    WAR (1876-1899)
    Code:
    [B]1	Cap Anson 84.4	
    2	Roger Connor 84.2[/B]
    3	Dan Brouthers 78.4
    4	John Ward  64.1
    5	Jack Glasscock 61.4	
    6	Billy Hamilton 56.5	
    7	Bid McPhee 52.7	
    8	Ed Delahanty 52	
    9	Buck Ewing 	47.7
    10	Harry Stovey 44.6	
    11	Jim O'Rourke 44.5	
    12	Sam Thompson 44.2	
    13	King Kelly  43.2
    14	Elmer Smith  42.9	
    15	George Davis  42.5
    Win Shares: (1876-1899)
    Code:
    Ward 401.6
    Anson 389.8
    Connor 382.2
    Brouthers 369.5
    O'Rourke 319.3
    McPhee 313.4
    Hamilton 298.4
    Van Haltren 293.9
    Kelley 287.9
    Stovey 285.9

    Leave a comment:


  • rsuriyop
    replied
    Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
    Why Bad Bill over Pebbly Jack?

    I gave Dahlen a slight edge due to career length and also playing a bit later when the game became slightly more competitive. But I could still see a case for Glasscock. Being the best SS of the 1880's and without a fielding glove ought to give him a lot of credit.

    Leave a comment:


  • bluesky5
    replied
    Originally posted by rsuriyop View Post
    1. Cap Anson
    2. Dan Brouthers
    3. Billy Hamilton
    4. Ed Delahanty
    5. George Davis
    6. Roger Connor
    7. Buck Ewing
    8. King Kelly
    9. Bill Dahlen
    10. Jack Glasscock
    Why Bad Bill over Pebbly Jack?

    Leave a comment:


  • rsuriyop
    replied
    1. Cap Anson
    2. Dan Brouthers
    3. Billy Hamilton
    4. Ed Delahanty
    5. George Davis
    6. Roger Connor
    7. Buck Ewing
    8. King Kelly
    9. Bill Dahlen
    10. Jack Glasscock

    Leave a comment:


  • bluesky5
    replied
    1. Anson
    2. Glasscock
    3. Delahanty
    4. Ewing
    5. Hamilton
    6. Brouthers
    7. O'Rourke
    8. Ward
    9. Davis
    10. Dahlen

    Leave a comment:


  • chicagowhitesox1173
    replied
    My top ten 19th century pitchers

    1. Cy Young
    2. Kid Nichols
    3. Tim Keefe
    4. John Clarkson
    5. Old Hoss Radbourne
    6. Amos Rusie
    7. Mickey Welch
    8. Al Spalding
    9. Pud Galvin
    10. Tony Mullane

    11. Jim McCormick

    Leave a comment:

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