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Your 19th Century All-Time, All-Star Team

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  • Your 19th Century All-Time, All-Star Team

    I'd like to see your best Pre-1900 Teams, A and B teams, with brief notes, if you have them. Not necessary to use them in the traditional positions in which they originally played. You may platoon, if you like. But should have played at least 4-5 seasons before 1900, such as Jimmy Collins, Willie Keeler, Cy Young, George Davis, Jimmy McAleer, Bobby Lowe, etc.

    Should not use players with only 2-3 yrs., such as Nap Lajoie, Rube Waddell, Sam Crawford, Wagner.

    Any takers? And please do not forget to also post your teams on our other documentation thread, "Member's Official Opinions', Thanking you in advance for your participation.--Bill
    Form Chart:

    Jack Clements, "Deacon" Jim McGuire, Moses Fleetwood Walker, Buck Ewing, Mike "King" Kelly, Charlie Bennett, Charles "Pop" Snyder, Marty Bergen, Duke Farrell, John Warner, Moses Fleetwood Walker, Wilbert Robinson, Doc Bushong, Connie Mack.

    Joe Start, Roger Connor, Charles Comiskey, Wes Fisler, Dan Brouthers, Jake Beckley, Fred Tenney, Ed Konetchy, Adrian "Cap" Anson, Dave Orr, Henry Larkin, Cal McVey

    Ross Barnes, Jack Burdock, Fred Pfeffer, Cupid Childs, Bid McPhee, Jimmy Williams, Fred Dunlap, Hardy Richardson, Sol White, Frank Grant, Bud Fowler, Gene DeMontreville, Bobby Lowe.

    George Wright, Ed McKean, John Montgomery Ward, Jack Glasscock, Herman Long, Hughie Jennings, George Davis, Bill Dahlen, Tommy Corcoran, Freddie Parent, Dickey Pearce

    Ezra Sutton, Levi Meyerle, Bob Ferguson, Arlie Latham, Ned Williamson, John McGraw, Jimmie Collins, Bill Nash, Jim Davis, Lave Cross, Denny Lyons, Deacon White, Jerry Denny, Bill Joyce, Levi Meyerle

    Harry Stovey, Ed Delahanty, Jesse Burkett, Jim O'Rourke, Tip O'Neill, Abner Dalrymple

    Jimmie McAleer, Bill Lange, George Gore, Jimmy Ryan, Harry Wright, Paul Hines, Lip Pike, Tom Brown, George Van Haltren, Dummy Hoy, Billy Hamilton, Hugh Duffy, Ollie Pickering, Curt Welch, Dickey Johnson, Pete Browning, Mike Griffin

    Willie Keeler, Jimmy Fogarty, Sam Thompson, Mike Tiernan, Oyster Burns

    Tim Keefe, John "Monte" Ward, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson, Jim "Pud" Galvin, Mickey Welch, Sadie McMahon, Jim McCormick, Charlie "Old Hoss" Radbourne, Amos Rusie, Jim Whitney, Larry Corcoran, Clark Griffith, Al Spalding, Cy Young, Kid Nichols, Charlie Ferguson, Tony Mullane, Silver King, Bobby Mathews, Tommy Bond, Jim Creighton, Gus Weyhing, Jack Stivetts, Will White, Ted Breitenstein, Adonis Terry, Will White, Charlie Buffington, Bill Hutchison, Guy Hecker, Terry Larkin, George Bradley, Fred Goldsmith, Ed Morris, Dave Foutz, Toad Ramsey, Jim Devlin, Matt Kilroy, Ben Sanders, Elton Chamberlain.
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 08-26-2008, 01:59 PM.

  • #2
    Not sure if you want ANY 20th century playing time so will keep to bare minimum

    3B-if you won't let Lave Cross/Jimmy Collins squeak, then Deacon White?
    SS-if not George Davis/Dahlen, then maybe Herman Long
    LF-if not Ed Delahanty/Burkett, then Jim O'Rourke
    RF-if not Keeler, then Sam Thompson

    If I can get away with 3 CF, I might go with Jimmy Ryan and Pete Browning
    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
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    • #3
      C- Buck Ewing
      1B - Dan Brouthers
      2B - Bid McPhee
      3B - John McGraw
      SS - Hugh Jennings
      LF - Ed Delahanty
      CF - Billy Hamilton
      RF - Sam Thompson
      U - Mike Kelly
      Pitchers - Kid Nichols, Amos Rusie, Cy Young, Tim Keefe


      • #4
        C: Ewing, Bennett
        1B: Anson, Brouthers
        2B: McPhee, Richardson
        3B: White, Conner (Sutton for Conner if I need a real 3B)
        SS: Jennings, Glasscock
        LF: Delahanty, O'Rourke
        CF: Hamilton, Hines
        RF: Kelly, Thompson
        P: Clarkson, Nichols, Keefe, Rusie, Caruthers, Spaulding, Radbourne, Muillane, Galvin
        --Thats 25 with nobody who played more than a couple years after the turn of the century
        Last edited by leecemark; 01-12-2006, 10:47 PM.


        • #5
          I based this on time spent pre 1900, regardless of what a player did after the turn of the century.
          C- Buck Ewing/King Kelly/Charlie Bennett
          1B-Dan Brouthers/Cap Anson/Roger Connor
          2B-Cupid Childs/Bid McPhee/Fred Dunlap
          SS-Hugh Jennings/Bill Dahlen/Bill Joyce
          3B-John McGraw/Denny Lyons/Arlie Latham
          LF-Ed Delahanty/Jesse Burkett/Pete Browning
          CF-Billy Hamilton/Bill Lange/George Gore
          RF-Sam Thompson/Hugh Duffy/Mike Tiernan
          UT-Deacon White/George Davis/Jim O'Rourke
          P-Kid Nichols/Hoss Radbourn/Tony Mullane
          P-Cy Young/Tim Keefe/Mickey Welch
          P-John Clarkson/Amos Rusie/Jim McCormick

          A lot of other notables, but most had short a meteor, burn bright but not for long. These include Tip O'Neill, Ed Swartwood, Bob Caruthers, George Bradley, George Wright, Ezra Sutton, Ross Barnes, Charley Jones and a few more. First base is by far the strongest position, RF probably the weakest. Pitchers read down, not side to side...meaning Nichols, oung and Clarkson are first team, etc.


          • #6
            C Buck Ewing
            1b Cap Anson
            2b Hardy Richardson
            3b Deacon White
            SS Monte Ward/George Davis
            OF Jim O'Rourke, Paul Hines, Billy Hamilton
            P Tim Keefe, John Clarkson, Charlie Radbourn, Pud Galvin

            I'm trying to avoid guys who are as well known for their play from 1900 on (like Cy Young), though the shortstop situation makes it tough to hold to that idea. I'm also consciously trying to push pitchers from before the 60' 6" pitching rubber. I prefer O'Rourke over Delahanty in left, but I'm not sure I can see the other one in right, so I went with two center fielders.

            Jim Albright
            Last edited by jalbright; 01-13-2006, 11:25 AM.
            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.


            • #7
              C - Buck Ewing, King Kelly - 2 of the most well known players of the era, Buck often cited as best all around for his time, can't ignore that.
              1B - Dan Brouthers, Cap Anson, Roger Connor, would hate to leave any of them off, the strongest position easily.
              2B - Nap Lajoie - I know, I know, but he did have 2 big years pre 1900 also.
              If Lajoie is excluded then Cupid Childs and Bid McPhee.
              3B - John McGraw, Deacon White - I would need to research more and don't have time unfortunately. Gotta like McGraw's on base avg. though.
              SS - Honus Wagner, I know, same as Lajoie, but he did have 2 big pre-1900 seasons also. Hughie Jennings and George Davis.
              LF - Ed Delahanty, the best offensive player pre 1900. Jesse Burkett.
              CF - Sliding Billy Hamilton, very underrated in my opinion. Hugh Duffy.
              RF - Sam Thompson, also underrated. Willie Keeler.
              Pitchers - Kid Nichols, Cy Young, Tim Keefe, John Clarkson, Pud Galvin, Ol' Hoss Radbourn, Amos Rusie, Al Spaulding.

              That's 25 not counting Lajoie and Wagner.

              CF Hamilton
              3B McGraw
              LF Delahanty
              RF Thompson
              1B Brouthers
              C Ewing
              2B Childs
              SS Jennings
              P Nichols

              With a DH
              CF Hamilton
              3B McGraw
              LF Delahanty
              RF Thompson
              1B Brouthers
              DH Anson or Connor
              C Ewing
              2B Childs
              SS Jennings

              What a great topic, I HATE all those baseball books that start with 1901!


              • #8
                C - Buck Ewing
                1B - Dan Brouthers
                2B - Hardy Richardson
                SS - Hughie Jennings
                3B - Ezra Sutton
                LF - Ed Delahanty
                CF - Billy Hamilton
                RF - King Kelly
                P - Kid Nichols, John Clarkson, Tim Keefe, Cy Young

                Second Team
                C - Charlie Bennett
                1B - Cap Anson
                2B - Cupid Childs
                SS - George Wright
                3B - Deacon White
                LF - Charley Jones
                CF - Paul Hines
                RF - Sam Thompson
                P - Amos Rusie, Al Spalding, Charley Radbourn, Bob Caruthers
                Last edited by Chadwick; 08-16-2008, 04:56 PM.
                "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe


                • #9
                  I also ignored anthing they did after 1900.

                  C- Buck Ewing/Fred Carroll/Charlie Bennett
                  1B-Dan Brouthers//Roger Connor/Cap Anson
                  2B-Cupid Childs/Fred Dunlap/Hardy Richardson
                  SS-Hugh Jennings/Bill Dahlen/Jack Glasscock
                  3B-John McGraw/Denny Lyons/Bill Joyce
                  LF-Ed Delahanty/Jesse Burkett/Tip O'Neill
                  CF-Billy Hamilton/Pete Browning/Hugh Duffy/
                  RF-Sam Thompson/King Kelly/Mike Tiernan
                  P-Kid Nichols//Cy Young/John Clarkson
                  P-Amos Rusie/Tim Keefe/Old Hoss Radbourn
                  Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball


                  • #10
                    C - Buck Ewing (starter)/Pop Snyder (backc-up and defensive replacement)
                    1B- Roger Connor (hits AND fields)/Dan Brouthers (just hits)
                    2B- Bid McPhee (best glove at second all time)/Cupid Childs (perfect utility swing IFer)
                    3B- Jimmie Collins (glove #2 all time and could hit a bit)/Ned Williamson (also good fielder and solid hitter)
                    SS- Bill Dahlen (fields and hits)/Herman Long (best defensive SS not named Ozzie)
                    LF- Ed Delahanty (best all around hitting OFer of the 19th century)
                    CF- Billy Hamilton (lead-off stud)/Jimmy McAleer (brilliant fielder)
                    RF- Willie Keeler

                    14 position players carried

                    I'll ake 6 pitchers and make it a 20 man roster

                    1) Cy Young (even excluding his 1900+ years)
                    2) Kid Nichols
                    3) John Clarkson
                    4) Tim Keefe
                    5) Bob Caruthers
                    6) Pud Galvin/Hoss Rdbourne..can't decide...LOL


                    • #11
                      C- Buck Ewing (Charlie Bennett)
                      1B- Dan Brouthers (Roger Connor)
                      2B- Cupid Childs (Hardy Richardson)
                      SS- Hughie Jennings (George Davis)
                      3B- Ezra Sutton (Deacon White)
                      LF- Ed Delahanty (Jesse Burkett)
                      CF- Billy Hamilton (Paul Hines)
                      RF- Sam Thompson (Mike Tiernan)
                      SP- Kid Nichols (John Clarkson)
                      UT- Monte Ward (King Kelly)
                      Nos Amours! ... 1969-2004


                      • #12
                        1B Cap Anson
                        2B Ross Barnes
                        SS George Wright
                        3B John McGraw
                        C Buck Ewing
                        RF Willie Keeler
                        CF Billy Hamilton
                        LF Ed Delahanty
                        P Kid Nichols


                        • #13
                          C - Buck Ewing
                          1B- Dan Brouthers
                          2B- Cupid Childs
                          3B- John McGraw
                          SS- Hughie Jennings
                          LF- Ed Delahanty
                          CF- Billy Hamilton
                          RF- Willie Keeler

                          Cy Young
                          Tim Keefe
                          John Clarkson
                          Kid Nichols
                          Charley Radbourn
                          "There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.
                          ~~Al Gallagher

                          God Bless America!

                          Click here to see my baseball tribute site!

                          Click here to see the best pitcher NOT in the HOF!



                          • #14
                            Team 1

                            C-Buck Ewing
                            1B-Adrian Anson
                            2B-Bid McPhee
                            SS-Jack Glasscock
                            3B-Arlie Latham
                            RF-Sam Thompson
                            CF-Billy Hamilton
                            LF-Ed Delehanty

                            SP Kid Nichols
                            SP Cy Young
                            SP Amos Rusie
                            SP Ole Hoss Radbourne
                            SP John Clarkson

                            Team 2
                            C- Deacon White
                            1B Dan Brouthers
                            2B Cupid Childs
                            SS Ed McKean
                            3B Lave Cross
                            RF Willie Keeler
                            CF George Gore
                            LF Jesse Burkett

                            SP Tim Keefe
                            SP Pud Galvin
                            SP Mickey Welch
                            SP Clark Griffith
                            SP Bobby Mathews
                            Last edited by HDH; 04-16-2007, 08:40 PM.
                            In the 1920's, Harry Heilmann led the AL with a .364 average. In addition, he averaged 220 hits, 45 doubles, 12 triples, 16 homers, 110 runs, and 130 RBI.


                            • #15
                              A Team - B Team

                              1B - Brouthers - Anson
                              2B - Barnes - McPhee
                              SS - Jennings - Long
                              3B - McGraw - Williamson
                              C - Ewing - Kelly
                              OF - McAleer/Ryan/Lange - Keeler/Gore/Delahanty
                              P - Rusie/Clarkson/Nichols/Radbourne/Keefe/Welch - Galvin/Young/Breitenstein/Buffington/Creighton/Mullane
                              Mgr. - Hanlon - Anson
                              Last edited by Bill Burgess; 03-23-2009, 12:41 PM.


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