Your 19th Century All-Time, All-Star Team

[Bill Burgess]

I'd like to see your best Pre-1900 Teams, A and B teams, with brief notes, if you have them. Not necessary to use them in the traditional positions in which they originally played. You may platoon, if you like. But should have played at least 4-5 seasons before 1900, such as Jimmy Collins, Willie Keeler, Cy Young, George Davis, Jimmy McAleer, Bobby Lowe, etc.

Should not use players with only 2-3 yrs., such as Nap Lajoie, Rube Waddell, Sam Crawford, Wagner.

Any takers? And please do not forget to also post your teams on our other documentation thread, "Member's Official Opinions',
http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=38137 Thanking you in advance for your participation.--Bill
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Form Chart:

Catchers:
Jack Clements, "Deacon" Jim McGuire, Moses Fleetwood Walker, Buck Ewing, Mike "King" Kelly, Charlie Bennett, Charles "Pop" Snyder, Marty Bergen, Duke Farrell, John Warner, Moses Fleetwood Walker, Wilbert Robinson, Doc Bushong, Connie Mack.

1B
Joe Start, Roger Connor, Charles Comiskey, Wes Fisler, Dan Brouthers, Jake Beckley, Fred Tenney, Ed Konetchy, Adrian "Cap" Anson, Dave Orr, Henry Larkin, Cal McVey

2B
Ross Barnes, Jack Burdock, Fred Pfeffer, Cupid Childs, Bid McPhee, Jimmy Williams, Fred Dunlap, Hardy Richardson, Sol White, Frank Grant, Bud Fowler, Gene DeMontreville, Bobby Lowe.

SS
George Wright, Ed McKean, John Montgomery Ward, Jack Glasscock, Herman Long, Hughie Jennings, George Davis, Bill Dahlen, Tommy Corcoran, Freddie Parent, Dickey Pearce

3B:
Ezra Sutton, Levi Meyerle, Bob Ferguson, Arlie Latham, Ned Williamson, John McGraw, Jimmie Collins, Bill Nash, Jim Davis, Lave Cross, Denny Lyons, Deacon White, Jerry Denny, Bill Joyce, Levi Meyerle

LF
Harry Stovey, Ed Delahanty, Jesse Burkett, Jim O'Rourke, Tip O'Neill, Abner Dalrymple

CF:
Jimmie McAleer, Bill Lange, George Gore, Jimmy Ryan, Harry Wright, Paul Hines, Lip Pike, Tom Brown, George Van Haltren, Dummy Hoy, Billy Hamilton, Hugh Duffy, Ollie Pickering, Curt Welch, Dickey Johnson, Pete Browning, Mike Griffin


RF
Willie Keeler, Jimmy Fogarty, Sam Thompson, Mike Tiernan, Oyster Burns


Pitchers:
Tim Keefe, John "Monte" Ward, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson, Jim "Pud" Galvin, Mickey Welch, Sadie McMahon, Jim McCormick, Charlie "Old Hoss" Radbourne, Amos Rusie, Jim Whitney, Larry Corcoran, Clark Griffith, Al Spalding, Cy Young, Kid Nichols, Charlie Ferguson, Tony Mullane, Silver King, Bobby Mathews, Tommy Bond, Jim Creighton, Gus Weyhing, Jack Stivetts, Will White, Ted Breitenstein, Adonis Terry, Will White, Charlie Buffington, Bill Hutchison, Guy Hecker, Terry Larkin, George Bradley, Fred Goldsmith, Ed Morris, Dave Foutz, Toad Ramsey, Jim Devlin, Matt Kilroy, Ben Sanders, Elton Chamberlain.

[RuthMayBond]

Not sure if you want ANY 20th century playing time so will keep to bare minimum

P-Keefe
P-Clarkson
P-Rusie
P-Spalding/Radbourn
C-Ewing
1B-Brouthers
2B-McPhee
3B-if you won't let Lave Cross/Jimmy Collins squeak, then Deacon White?
SS-if not George Davis/Dahlen, then maybe Herman Long
LF-if not Ed Delahanty/Burkett, then Jim O'Rourke
CF-BHamilton
RF-if not Keeler, then Sam Thompson

If I can get away with 3 CF, I might go with Jimmy Ryan and Pete Browning

[Dodger]

C- Buck Ewing
1B - Dan Brouthers
2B - Bid McPhee
3B - John McGraw
SS - Hugh Jennings
LF - Ed Delahanty
CF - Billy Hamilton
RF - Sam Thompson
U - Mike Kelly
Pitchers - Kid Nichols, Amos Rusie, Cy Young, Tim Keefe

[leecemark]

C: Ewing, Bennett
1B: Anson, Brouthers
2B: McPhee, Richardson
3B: White, Conner (Sutton for Conner if I need a real 3B)
SS: Jennings, Glasscock
LF: Delahanty, O'Rourke
CF: Hamilton, Hines
RF: Kelly, Thompson
P: Clarkson, Nichols, Keefe, Rusie, Caruthers, Spaulding, Radbourne, Muillane, Galvin
--Thats 25 with nobody who played more than a couple years after the turn of the century

[baseballPAP]

I based this on time spent pre 1900, regardless of what a player did after the turn of the century.
A/B/C
C- Buck Ewing/King Kelly/Charlie Bennett
1B-Dan Brouthers/Cap Anson/Roger Connor
2B-Cupid Childs/Bid McPhee/Fred Dunlap
SS-Hugh Jennings/Bill Dahlen/Bill Joyce
3B-John McGraw/Denny Lyons/Arlie Latham
LF-Ed Delahanty/Jesse Burkett/Pete Browning
CF-Billy Hamilton/Bill Lange/George Gore
RF-Sam Thompson/Hugh Duffy/Mike Tiernan
UT-Deacon White/George Davis/Jim O'Rourke
P-Kid Nichols/Hoss Radbourn/Tony Mullane
P-Cy Young/Tim Keefe/Mickey Welch
P-John Clarkson/Amos Rusie/Jim McCormick

A lot of other notables, but most had short peaks...like a meteor, burn bright but not for long. These include Tip O'Neill, Ed Swartwood, Bob Caruthers, George Bradley, George Wright, Ezra Sutton, Ross Barnes, Charley Jones and a few more. First base is by far the strongest position, RF probably the weakest. Pitchers read down, not side to side...meaning Nichols, oung and Clarkson are first team, etc.

[jalbright]

C Buck Ewing
1b Cap Anson
2b Hardy Richardson
3b Deacon White
SS Monte Ward/George Davis
OF Jim O'Rourke, Paul Hines, Billy Hamilton
P Tim Keefe, John Clarkson, Charlie Radbourn, Pud Galvin

I'm trying to avoid guys who are as well known for their play from 1900 on (like Cy Young), though the shortstop situation makes it tough to hold to that idea. I'm also consciously trying to push pitchers from before the 60' 6" pitching rubber. I prefer O'Rourke over Delahanty in left, but I'm not sure I can see the other one in right, so I went with two center fielders.

Jim Albright

[Babe is the best]

C - Buck Ewing, King Kelly - 2 of the most well known players of the era, Buck often cited as best all around for his time, can't ignore that.
1B - Dan Brouthers, Cap Anson, Roger Connor, would hate to leave any of them off, the strongest position easily.
2B - Nap Lajoie - I know, I know, but he did have 2 big years pre 1900 also.
If Lajoie is excluded then Cupid Childs and Bid McPhee.
3B - John McGraw, Deacon White - I would need to research more and don't have time unfortunately. Gotta like McGraw's on base avg. though.
SS - Honus Wagner, I know, same as Lajoie, but he did have 2 big pre-1900 seasons also. Hughie Jennings and George Davis.
LF - Ed Delahanty, the best offensive player pre 1900. Jesse Burkett.
CF - Sliding Billy Hamilton, very underrated in my opinion. Hugh Duffy.
RF - Sam Thompson, also underrated. Willie Keeler.
Pitchers - Kid Nichols, Cy Young, Tim Keefe, John Clarkson, Pud Galvin, Ol' Hoss Radbourn, Amos Rusie, Al Spaulding.

That's 25 not counting Lajoie and Wagner.

Lineup:
CF Hamilton
3B McGraw
LF Delahanty
RF Thompson
1B Brouthers
C Ewing
2B Childs
SS Jennings
P Nichols

With a DH
CF Hamilton
3B McGraw
LF Delahanty
RF Thompson
1B Brouthers
DH Anson or Connor
C Ewing
2B Childs
SS Jennings

What a great topic, I HATE all those baseball books that start with 1901!

[Chadwick]

C - Buck Ewing
1B - Dan Brouthers
2B - Hardy Richardson
SS - Hughie Jennings
3B - Ezra Sutton
LF - Ed Delahanty
CF - Billy Hamilton
RF - King Kelly
P - Kid Nichols, John Clarkson, Tim Keefe, Cy Young

Second Team
C - Charlie Bennett
1B - Cap Anson
2B - Cupid Childs
SS - George Wright
3B - Deacon White
LF - Charley Jones
CF - Paul Hines
RF - Sam Thompson
P - Amos Rusie, Al Spalding, Charley Radbourn, Bob Caruthers

[KCGHOST]

I also ignored anthing they did after 1900.

C- Buck Ewing/Fred Carroll/Charlie Bennett
1B-Dan Brouthers//Roger Connor/Cap Anson
2B-Cupid Childs/Fred Dunlap/Hardy Richardson
SS-Hugh Jennings/Bill Dahlen/Jack Glasscock
3B-John McGraw/Denny Lyons/Bill Joyce
LF-Ed Delahanty/Jesse Burkett/Tip O'Neill
CF-Billy Hamilton/Pete Browning/Hugh Duffy/
RF-Sam Thompson/King Kelly/Mike Tiernan
P-Kid Nichols//Cy Young/John Clarkson
P-Amos Rusie/Tim Keefe/Old Hoss Radbourn

[SABR Matt]

C - Buck Ewing (starter)/Pop Snyder (backc-up and defensive replacement)
1B- Roger Connor (hits AND fields)/Dan Brouthers (just hits)
2B- Bid McPhee (best glove at second all time)/Cupid Childs (perfect utility swing IFer)
3B- Jimmie Collins (glove #2 all time and could hit a bit)/Ned Williamson (also good fielder and solid hitter)
SS- Bill Dahlen (fields and hits)/Herman Long (best defensive SS not named Ozzie)
LF- Ed Delahanty (best all around hitting OFer of the 19th century)
CF- Billy Hamilton (lead-off stud)/Jimmy McAleer (brilliant fielder)
RF- Willie Keeler

14 position players carried

I'll ake 6 pitchers and make it a 20 man roster

1) Cy Young (even excluding his 1900+ years)
2) Kid Nichols
3) John Clarkson
4) Tim Keefe
5) Bob Caruthers
6) Pud Galvin/Hoss Rdbourne..can't decide...LOL

[TheSlaff]

C- Buck Ewing (Charlie Bennett)
1B- Dan Brouthers (Roger Connor)
2B- Cupid Childs (Hardy Richardson)
SS- Hughie Jennings (George Davis)
3B- Ezra Sutton (Deacon White)
LF- Ed Delahanty (Jesse Burkett)
CF- Billy Hamilton (Paul Hines)
RF- Sam Thompson (Mike Tiernan)
SP- Kid Nichols (John Clarkson)
UT- Monte Ward (King Kelly)

[yest]

1B Cap Anson
2B Ross Barnes
SS George Wright
3B John McGraw
C Buck Ewing
RF Willie Keeler
CF Billy Hamilton
LF Ed Delahanty
P Kid Nichols

[Baseball Guru]

C - Buck Ewing
1B- Dan Brouthers
2B- Cupid Childs
3B- John McGraw
SS- Hughie Jennings
LF- Ed Delahanty
CF- Billy Hamilton
RF- Willie Keeler

Pitchers:
Cy Young
Tim Keefe
John Clarkson
Kid Nichols
Charley Radbourn

[HDH]

Team 1

C-Buck Ewing
1B-Adrian Anson
2B-Bid McPhee
SS-Jack Glasscock
3B-Arlie Latham
RF-Sam Thompson
CF-Billy Hamilton
LF-Ed Delehanty

SP Kid Nichols
SP Cy Young
SP Amos Rusie
SP Ole Hoss Radbourne
SP John Clarkson

Team 2
C- Deacon White
1B Dan Brouthers
2B Cupid Childs
SS Ed McKean
3B Lave Cross
RF Willie Keeler
CF George Gore
LF Jesse Burkett

SP Tim Keefe
SP Pud Galvin
SP Mickey Welch
SP Clark Griffith
SP Bobby Mathews

[Bill Burgess]

A Team - B Team

1B - Brouthers - Anson
2B - Barnes - McPhee
SS - Jennings - Long
3B - McGraw - Williamson
C - Ewing - Kelly
OF - McAleer/Ryan/Lange - Keeler/Gore/Delahanty
P - Rusie/Clarkson/Nichols/Radbourne/Keefe/Welch - Galvin/Young/Breitenstein/Buffington/Creighton/Mullane
Mgr. - Hanlon - Anson