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  • THE OX
    replied
    I had heard somewhere that 1950s Yankees super utility infielder Gil McDougald had a very substantial hearing loss. I don't know if this began to manifest itself during his playing career, but I think his last year or two with the Yankees might have been during the decline in his hearing.

    He certainly was the quintessential "super-sub" infielder, good enough to start at 2B, SS, and 3B on any team!

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  • Mischa
    replied
    Originally posted by caribeño
    Luis Figueroa who is legally deaf played a couple of games for the Pirates in 2001 . A native of Puerto Rico he can read lips both in english and spanish !
    A very good fielder ( 2b- ss ) he has made a tremendous improvement in his batting in recent years .
    www.workersforjesus.com/dfi/982
    Wrong Luis Figueroa. The deaf Luis Figueroa (Luis Daniel Figueroa) is primarily a third baseman and never made the majors despite several years at AAA. The MLB Luis Figueroa (Luis R. Figueroa) was primarily a shortstop before becoming a utility infielder later and is not deaf.

    For information on both Figueroas, see http://www.baseball-reference.com/bu...is_D._Figueroa
    and
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Luis_Figueroa

    Leave a comment:


  • Hoyfan
    replied
    I'm confident that the "Hoy Homeplate" is essentially accurate as regards Hoy's career and stats. I've reviewed and updated most of it, excepting a passage about the HOF Veterans Committee. The rules were changed in 2002, and after I re-review the current situation, I'll incorporate the changes. That's fairly minor, though.

    I will let other visitors to the site decide for themselves whether it's valueless or not, and whether it deserves to be taken seriously or not. After we launched the site, our PR contact from the National Baseball Hall of Fame E-mailed us to compliment us. We intend to augment and improve the site, with a page highlighting the careers of other deaf players...hopefully with good-quality images.


    TonyK, thanks for the suggestion. I have found the microfilm-combing process agonizingly slow, and every session leaves me with an eyeache. Do you have a general notion of the year and city of the newspaper you mentioned? I believe in looking things up too...I'm still searching for the primary sources of some familiar quotes, such as the Henry Furness quote about spectators "wildly waving hats and arms" to Hoy. There's a reference to it in one of David Quentin Voigt's books, but when I borrowed the microfilm reel containing the issue of "Sporting Life" cited in the footnote, it turned out to be a special bicycling issue...and I had to return the reel without having located it. But the same footnote contained a citation to another issue of "Sporting Life." Gads, this can get habit-forming.

    It costs us $5 a pop to request microfilm reels via interlibrary loan, so I think you can see why I'm anxious to pinpoint the sources. I also use SABR's Lending Library, which is a blessing.

    I'd love to explore Kihm's career (it was a long one--19 years!)...but right now, I have to focus on Hoy. Kihm is mentioned in our chapter on other deaf players. Reuben C. Stephenson put in a brief stint on the Philadelphia Phillies, subbing for Ed Delahanty during his recuperation from an injury, but had to leave the team after Delahanty resumed his regular spot. He never played in the majors again, unfortunately. In a tale that's reminiscent of the spiked-thumb story you recounted, Arthur "Big Six" Rasmussen was slated to have a tryout with Clark Griffith's Washington Senators, but was stricken with tonsillitis, which subverted his plans--permanently. (And Clark Griffith, having been Hoy's old captain/manager, knew sign language.) By the time Rasmussen recovered, it was too late. He never got his "break" in the majors. George Leitner and William Deegan were Luther Haden Taylor's fellow pitchers on the New York Giants--briefly. They were dismissed after John McGraw took over and did his bit of radical house-cleaning.

    There are other early deaf players I'm trying to find more about: Lester Rosson, Harry Dix, Dalton Fuller, ? Gillespie, ? McDonough, ? McLaughlin, Charles Whitney. Some were alumni of the Ohio School for the Deaf, others from other states.

    As for Ed Dundon, he was the pioneer, the trail-blazer. I have brought together what I've been able to learn about him, which, admittedly, ain't much. I know of no letters or other writings from him...no autographs that I'm aware of. (But then, the Giamatti Library at the HOF might have a contract or two.) There's a poignant group photo of the Syracuse Stars showing Dundon standing next to Moses Fleetwood Walker, the first black major-leaguer.

    Buzzaldrin, thanks for the citation. Coincidentally, I did manage to locate that genealogical site--and the photo--a few days ago...a good find! The photo does indeed corroborate what a contemporary account said of him--that he was a handsome fellow.

    Anybody here know how to contact Bill James?
    Last edited by Hoyfan; 10-08-2011, 06:30 PM.

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  • TonyK
    replied
    Originally posted by Hoyfan
    I'm a staunch believer in properly crediting my sources, so if you're up to sharing any information, you'll be credited for it.
    I'm a staunch believer in looking things up for myself. Perhaps you can look up some newspapers from NYSL cities on microfilm and find out even more about Dummy Kihm? That's what I would do if I planned on writing about him.

    I wasn't researching Kihm but the league itself for that season. When I discover a nugget like that story I like to write it down. Good Luck!

    Leave a comment:


  • WrightWing
    replied
    You mean Kihm? Here's one found doing a Google search.

    http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com...0029photo.html

    Hope this helps...

    Leave a comment:


  • Hoyfan
    replied
    I've been doing my homework, and can confidently say that a large number of errors and misconceptions found in previously published books are rectified on the Hoy Homeplate. Some of these include the canards that Hoy was born deaf, that he couldn't talk, that his wife taught him how to speak, that he lived to be 100.

    I already obtained the archival quotes regarding Dundon's umpiring signals, a couple of years ago, and more besides. Only a few scraps of documentation are posted on the Hoy Homeplate. I decided against updating that section until after the book's out.

    I believe in properly crediting sources, and also in getting as close to the original sources as possible. The earliest reference I've been able to find on umpires' signals (and these being used in an all-deaf game) is vintage Spring 1867, a published account of the baseball team of the National Deaf-Mute College--the same college that is now Gallaudet University.

    Thanks for the info, TonyK...how is it you were able to find so much about "Dummy" Kihm? Do you have more specific info on that Boston-scout story, such as the name of the newspaper and the date? Do you have Kihm's dates or birth and death? I've been going through "Sporting Life" microfilm reels to excavate info about Hoy, and it's been agonizingly slow going. What I've found about Kihm really doesn't amount to much...primarily some paragraphs in the old and new "Silent Worker."

    I'm a staunch believer in properly crediting my sources, so if you're up to sharing any information, you'll be credited for it.

    Well, I'm gonna drop my 50-megaton question as long as I'm at it...anybody have a good photo of him?

    Leave a comment:


  • TonyK
    replied
    Originally posted by Hoyfan
    Regarding TonyK's story about George P. "Dummy" Kihm's untimely injury preventing his being signed with a Boston major-league club: what is the source of this story?
    The source of this story is a newspaper writeup after the box score the day after the Boston official visited the ballpark.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian McKenna
    replied
    per the minor league register:

    kihm played in the ny state lg with troy from 1900-01 - he also played in la, tacoma, wheeling, indianapolis, grand rapids, newark, jackson, michigan and findlay, toledo, fort wayne, new castle, mansfield, columbus

    Leave a comment:


  • Hoyfan
    replied
    Suffice it to say that the errors you noted on the Dummy Hoy Homeplate have been corrected. Most of the research is being saved for the book, and isn't posted, although a few details have just now been corrected and updated.

    As for your comment regarding "plagiarism," be assured that what is done on the Dummy Hoy Homeplate, including the quotations page, properly credits sources. Lawrence Ritter personally gave Deaf Life Press permission to quote from "The Glory of Their Times."

    Regarding TonyK's story about George P. "Dummy" Kihm's untimely injury preventing his being signed with a Boston major-league club: what is the source of this story? From what i know of Kihm's career, he played in the Ohio minor leagues, not the New York State League.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian McKenna
    replied
    Originally posted by caribeño
    Luis Figueroa who is legally deaf played a couple of games for the Pirates in 2001.
    thanks edwin i missed that one

    Leave a comment:


  • Imapotato
    replied
    How is some proof from players and sources in that era, including Sam Crawford, a teammate and HOFer not reliable?
    It's as reliable as the 'news' clips you provided if not moreso...hell Crawford saying it puts alot of stock in me saying yes, because I am sure Hoy had the reputation when Sam met him and asked "whose the deaf guy?"

    as for 1886...I know that is when Hoy started playing in Oskosh, that is not from the site

    as for your line...you said "nobody with a clue would take the site or its cause seriously."

    Cause, yes, point...the site, that I felt was directed at me...in regards to the paragraph I quoted
    Last edited by Imapotato; 02-27-2006, 04:46 PM.

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  • Imapotato
    replied
    That's what I quoted and you said only someone would out a clue would believe ANYTHING on that site

    Those were 3rd party quotes...I wasn't campaigning Hoy for the HOF, just that there is proof that he is credited with starting hand signals

    I mean out and safe are straight from ASL...coincidence? maybe but unlikely

    Also Hoy began his career the beginning of 1886...and many players used pseudo names because baseball was not 'legit' work...so the name of the P could be Hoy
    Last edited by Imapotato; 02-27-2006, 12:33 PM.

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  • Imapotato
    replied
    I was on the 'quotes' page...which if incorrect would be plagarism...but not having a clue...I wouldn't suspect plagarism in everything that is quoted I suppose....nor have I 'read' Glory of the Times...in which I saw the exact quote from Sam Crawford about Dummy Hoy

    Leave a comment:


  • caribeño
    replied
    Luis Figueroa - most recent impaired

    Luis Figueroa who is legally deaf played a couple of games for the Pirates in 2001 . A native of Puerto Rico he can read lips both in english and spanish !
    A very good fielder ( 2b- ss ) he has made a tremendous improvement in his batting in recent years .
    www.workersforjesus.com/dfi/982

    Leave a comment:


  • TonyK
    replied
    I don't have access to my notes right now, but George "Dummy" Kihm was involved in a sad story once about coming so close to your dream but never attaining it.

    He was hitting well over .300 in the NY State League one year. A scout for one of the two Boston major leagues teams arrived by train to purchase his contract from his minor league club (it may have been Albany?). Kihm had a game that afternoon so the scout sat down to watch him play first.

    Kihm was on first base and he attempted to steal second base. The catcher's throw was high causing the fielder to leap into the air for it. Dummy Kihm slid into second base as the fielder came down and his spikes crushed Kihm's thumb.

    While he was led away to visit a doctor, the scout left on the next train with the purchase money for Kihm still on him.

    Dummy Kihm never played major league ball. He recovered from his fractured thumb injury, but the door had closed on him that fateful day when he slid into second base.

    Leave a comment:

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