Who would win?

[wes_kahn]

Let's take a conference champion women's college softball team and have them play baseball against an average boy's high school team. Let them play 25 times. What is your experienced opinion as to the outcome of a 25-game series?


I don't know the answer to this, but I do know from experience that when a top 25 women's collegiate basketball team scrimmaged with a boys' high school basketball team back when this was legal by the NCAA, that the women's basketball team usually won every time, usually by 10-20 points. That's a very small sample size, and this women's team eventually made the Final Four and was ranked #1 in the regular season with a 30-3 record, while the high school boy's team went 20-9 and lost in the second round of their state regional tournament after finishing third in their district tournament.

[StarStar00]

Realistically ... well, there's nothing "realistic" about this whole scenario. IF... you had 3-4 players from the women's SFB team with the best arms (not at all necessarily the ace pitchers) work out AS pitchers for a year or two straight, and got a couple who could hit the strike zone reasonably adequately ... the women's team might win 2-3 out of 25.

An average HS team is mostly made up out of boys who have already hit most of their growth spurt, so you'll have somewhat-above average athletically built HS boys .. averaging about 6-0, 170-190 pounds. You don't have many 5-4,120 pound freshmen on average HS teams.

Players on a college conference champion women's team will be about the same height (5-9 to 5-11 maybe) and about 20 pounds lighter. That's going to manifest itself on every hard-hit ball.

Again, assuming you could develop two or three pitchers who could get the ball decently over the plate and avoid 15-walk walk-fests and 400-foot moon shots on every pitch, you might be able to keep some games close. And the No. 3-4-5 pitchers on "average" HS baseball teams are no world-beaters either. Every so often, you'd match up the women's team having a great pitching game, and the boys' team having an awful day, and the magic would happen. Not too often, but once in a while. But 75% of the games would be 9-2 or something on that level.

[wes_kahn]

I could turn this around and make it a game following college softball rules, and the fact that I have tried to hit off a female pitcher throwing 70 MPH pitches from 43 feet away. That's like a 98 MPH baseball pitch. Add to this the fact that in softball, this 70 MPH pitch can rise, move laterally, or even fall, and you can only take defensive swings and have to guess somewhat. I could hit a 98 MPH fastball when I was 20, but I could never hit anything thrown at me by a Jenny Finch. Maybe Barry Bonds could, but no high school all-star team could get more than one or two hits off a Jenny Finch, while college softball players could score runs off high school boys pitching underhand.

The Colorado Silver Bullets showed that women can compete at somewhat below replacement level in the Minor Leagues. In the case of my high school alma mater, I could probably find 9 guys over the age of 40 in my neighborhood that could beat this year's team. It's hard to even field a high school baseball team here, because so few kids want to play baseball any more. At the same time, there will be 50 of them in spring football practice.

[scottmitchell74]

Realistically ... well, there's nothing "realistic" about this whole scenario. IF... you had 3-4 players from the women's SFB team with the best arms (not at all necessarily the ace pitchers) work out AS pitchers for a year or two straight, and got a couple who could hit the strike zone reasonably adequately ... the women's team might win 2-3 out of 25.

An average HS team is mostly made up out of boys who have already hit most of their growth spurt, so you'll have somewhat-above average athletically built HS boys .. averaging about 6-0, 170-190 pounds. You don't have many 5-4,120 pound freshmen on average HS teams.

Players on a college conference champion women's team will be about the same height (5-9 to 5-11 maybe) and about 20 pounds lighter. That's going to manifest itself on every hard-hit ball.

Again, assuming you could develop two or three pitchers who could get the ball decently over the plate and avoid 15-walk walk-fests and 400-foot moon shots on every pitch, you might be able to keep some games close. And the No. 3-4-5 pitchers on "average" HS baseball teams are no world-beaters either. Every so often, you'd match up the women's team having a great pitching game, and the boys' team having an awful day, and the magic would happen. Not too often, but once in a while. But 75% of the games would be 9-2 or something on that level.

I agree with this take. To get even one win everything would have to break just right.

In a 25-game "series" the boys might struggle for 10 games of softball, but once they've seen enough they'll adjust and, well, they'll hit "pop-flies" that easily leave a softball park.

This is the problem: the scale.

The dimensions of a baseball diamond and park will exploit the women's relative speed/strength/range.

The dimensions of a softball diamond and park are literally Little League...literally. Once the boys adjust to the softball pitch...and they will...it's HR Derby time.

In both cases the women would have to avoid bats...or else...

[dwj21792]

i think it depends on who you have as your college and HS teams. The boys may win the majority. But the NCAA champs may give the preps a run for their money. Our national team that has dominated the Olympics since softball was introduced may even win the series.
At the same time we might ask what type of field they play on. The girls would definitely do better on a softball field than on a baseball field.
One side question might be how the girls' pro league might have done against the wartime mlb teams. Remember this was when the Browns won a pennant and one of reporter quipped that he didn't think either team could win the WS.

[scottmitchell74]

i think it depends on who you have as your college and HS teams. The boys may win the majority. But the NCAA champs may give the preps a run for their money. Our national team that has dominated the Olympics since softball was introduced may even win the series.
At the same time we might ask what type of field they play on. The girls would definitely do better on a softball field than on a baseball field.
One side question might be how the girls' pro league might have done against the wartime mlb teams. Remember this was when the Browns won a pennant and one of reporter quipped that he didn't think either team could win the WS.

I think when considering this question people forget how truly tiny a softball field is; we're literally talking Little League dimensions. Post - pubescent boys will utterly destroy such dimensions. Their relative speed will also be on display on the tiny basepaths.

My daughter owns her school's 2nd fastest 400 ever, and she was blown away (and frankly jealous) at her male teammate's speed and power. Anecdotally but still relevant: I trained with her and into my mid-40s could still beat her - an above-average but otherwise unremarkable middle-aged man.

I'm afraid no twisting scenario will allow women to beat men on an even playing field.

[dwj21792]

I think when considering this question people forget how truly tiny a softball field is; we're literally talking Little League dimensions. Post - pubescent boys will utterly destroy such dimensions. Their relative speed will also be on display on the tiny basepaths.

My daughter owns her school's 2nd fastest 400 ever, and she was blown away (and frankly jealous) at her male teammate's speed and power. Anecdotally but still relevant: I trained with her and into my mid-40s could still beat her - an above-average but otherwise unremarkable middle-aged man.

I'm afraid no twisting scenario will allow women to beat men on an even playing field.

I said they would do better on a softball field than on a baseball field. That was the last not meant to suggest that they would beat the boys on either field on a regular basis.

[JettSixty]

Mia Hamm, the greatest female soccer player to that point in time was once asked if she would ever move on to the MLS. She was shocked she was asked. She said the women’s Team USA scrimmages quality U18 boys travel teams and can’t beat them.

When my daughter was in high school they played the boys baseball team for charity. The fields are back to back. The baseball team pitched on the baseball field. The softball team pitched in the softball field. There are some variables. The softball team finished 25-4 and made states. Five players including the pitcher went on to D1 softball. Ten of them went on to college softball at some level. The baseball team was 6-16. Two players went on to D3 including the pitcher.

The softball pitcher was 62 mph from 43 feet. The baseball pitcher threw 80 mph from 60 feet. The softball pitcher dominated the baseball team. The baseball pitcher hardly struck out anyone. My daughter commented she couldn’t believe how long baseball hitters have to make up their mind to swing. She might have thought differently at 90. The girls hit a lot of singles. They’re accustomed to playing on LL size fields.

I believe if you took equally talented baseball players they would need time to adapt to softball pitching. I’ve seen video of MLB stars struggling against Jennie Finch.Then, they would be just fine. The pitcher is a lot closer. The ball comes off the hip. It can be hard to pick up if not accustomed.