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  • #31
    ???????????
    Last edited by Capital City Goofball; 11-11-2013, 09:21 AM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Capital City Goofball View Post
      How will we ever know they can't compete against men if they are not given an opportunity? Like I said before, a lot of these women move into softball after short stints in baseball because there are no opportunities for them after high school or even after little league. Until we can change mindsets, we won't be seeing a female ballplayer in the majors or the minors anytime soon which is unfortunate...
      Do you really think no team would give someone the shot if they could compete? Not even at a lower level. As I mentioned before, there is one girl trying. We will see where she ends up but in general, a woman will be less physically adept to the sport than a man. So yes, a top woman could beat an average man (easily), but not a top man. And only the best of the best make the majors. Even Cody Ransom is better than the best female player ever. Sorry, but true.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Capital City Goofball View Post
        Wow, and you say my statements are ridiculous... Can I highlight your shining comments? I also take it you've never seen a women's softball game nor do you read my posts... Plus continuing to compare all these others sports to baseball adds no credibility to your statement. Different sports, different intangibles. But I'm wondering why I continue to argue with you, it's almost like arguing with a drunk...
        Which statement of mine was ridiculous? A high school sophomore, Thomas Tyner, ran the 100m in 10.38 last year. The fastest time ever by any woman of any age is 10.49. Laughable.

        I have to use other sports since women and men rarely compete against each other in baseball/softball. Do you really think they're pretty much equal in baseball/softball despite not being even close to equal in the other sports where it's very easy to compare them? How many thousands of players are there in MLB and in the minors? Not one is a woman. That ought to tell you something.

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        • #34
          Ok, women do not have much opportunity to play baseball. A fair point. However, women have as much opportunity to play golf worldwide as the men. The top women in the LGPA Tour earn millions of dollars. The LGPA draws talent from across the world. Yet, the top women golfers are no match against the top male golfers.

          Also, I can't agree that physical attributes like physical strength has no bearing on hitting. If that were true why do ballplayers bother to lift weights? What was the point of taking steroids? Didn't steroids allow ballplayers to hit many more home runs than they would have hit if they didn't take steroids?
          Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 01-07-2013, 09:48 AM.
          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Capital City Goofball View Post
            I work for a women's professional softball team . . . I honestly believe, if you can teach them to hit a breaking ball and allow them to find their throwing range on a baseball field, then any one of these ballplayers could hold their own against men.
            They might be able to hold their own against some men, but they couldn't begin to compete with major leaguers. I will remind you that the topic here is the first woman MLB player. Find their throwing range on a baseball field? That's the problem. Their range would be less than men. While it may be difficult for some to compare men on the baseball field with women on the softball field, it's not so hard to compare men on the softball field with women on the softball field. I played many years of fastpitch softball including a good share on the major level. I've played in major national tournaments. I've played with and against the best softball players in existence. I have also watched my share of major division womens softball, including some major national tournaments. One observation is that the men play deeper and cover more ground. Why? Because they have a longer throwing range. Women can't go deep in the hole at short and gun out a runner like the men can. Why do you think the men, despite the fielders generally playing deeper, don't use the slap hit like the women do? It's because it's not a good percentage play in mens softball.

            Originally posted by Capital City Goofball View Post
            Dorothy “Boots” Klupping (later Ortman), a member of the Illinois ASA Hall of Fame, who played one season in the All American Girls Professional Baseball League for the Racine Belles, once hit a 306' 4” homerun out of Soldier Field during the World's Softball Tournament in Chicago. To my knowledge, that is still the longest home run ever hit in softball.
            The fact that you cite a home run that was hit somewhere between 1943 and 1950 (the years of Racine being in the league) is just sad. For one thing, 306' feet doesn't get out of many spots in major league parks. Regardless, 306' is nothing extraordinary in mens softball. I've jacked softballs well beyond that many times, and I was rarely the top power hitter for any team I played.

            Originally posted by Capital City Goofball View Post
            Take into consideration the fact that the 12-inch softball they used was much heavier than the current ball, that is still a remarkable feat of “strength” from such a petite young woman.
            What year did she hit the homer? The league started with a 12" ball, but they morphed the game from softball to baseball over time, so depending on the year, she may have hit a ball the same size as a baseball. Regardless, the softballs they used weren't much heavier than the current ball. Isn't there something wrong, though, that nobody else has hit a longer homer in over 60 years?

            I've yet to see a woman who could take a spot from a man on any of the major teams I played with, and these are generally women who have played softball for many years against men who switched over after their baseball days ended. While these men include some who played professionally (I played with a guy who made it as far as AAA) they are generally players who weren't even good enough for the lowest rung of minor league baseball. I think the first problem is that when people talk about a woman making it to MLB, they really don't understand just how good MLB players are. If a woman is truly talented enough to play, I'm all for it. It just isn't realistic.

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            • #36
              I'm not really going to throw out too much here because I've said my opinion. I just want to point out the ball hitting thing. Hitting a softball and a baseball are TOTALLY different. I went and watched the Team USA Women's National Team tryouts this past summer. There was one girl hitting almost every ball out to 350 and even close to the 400 foot (I don't remember exact distance) fence. This was BP, not a live pitcher throwing hard (faster pitcher would equal harder hits). Granted, it wasn't wood bat, but it was still impressive. Had those been softballs though, they wouldn't have been going NEAR as far. A skilled hitter could work with that all day and put balls in play.

              HOWEVER, again... a knuckleball pitcher. If anyone can argue against that happening then you're just going to be throwing out a tradosaurus argument. That being, "It will never be as good as a man's, no matter what...".

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              • #37
                Originally posted by clayadams View Post
                HOWEVER, again... a knuckleball pitcher. If anyone can argue against that happening then you're just going to be throwing out a tradosaurus argument. That being, "It will never be as good as a man's, no matter what...".
                I have no doubt that a woman is capable of throwing a knuckleball just as good as a MLB knuckleballer. The difference, however, is that knuckleball pitchers don't just throw the knuckleball. They also throw other pitches. R. A. Dickey, for example, has a fastball that gets up to around 85 MPH.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Macker View Post
                  I have no doubt that a woman is capable of throwing a knuckleball just as good as a MLB knuckleballer. The difference, however, is that knuckleball pitchers don't just throw the knuckleball. They also throw other pitches. R. A. Dickey, for example, has a fastball that gets up to around 85 MPH.
                  Did you read my previous posts? (Not being combative, just asking ) Girls have proven capable of throwing 85 as there was a female highschool player clocked at 85 in Atlanta. Even so, remember, Dickey is a rare breed of KB pitcher. MOST throw their KB in the mid 60's. As I was at the WNT Team USA tryouts, I was watching the bull pen sessions the whole time and there were several girls in the 70's. The KB is my passion, so I can tell you every in and out of it and talk about the differences of almost all the major KB pitchers in the past. This also brings about my previous point... baseball isn't just about speed and power. It's unlike any other professional "men's" sport IMO. I'm not saying the 2 aren't important, but finesse and precision are MORE important. I fully believe there are plenty of women capable of having the power to hit a homerun if they had the precision to hit the ball on the sweet spot with the right barrel path. Still, purely opinion, I simply enjoy discussing it. I don't think anyone doubts that the strongest and fastest women will never equal the strongest and fastest men.

                  BTW, among knuckleballers, we consider a knuckleball pitcher one that throws it roughly 80% of the time or more. The fastball is just like a changeup to a regular pitcher, it's an "offspeed" pitch, because it's a totally different speed. I love seeing a knuckleballer throw a fastball, because you usually see the player late on the swing and they swing under the pitch, expecting it to break like they've been used to seeing. RA is just a new breed of knuckleballer, there's a reason he's the Cy Young winner. Women or men, I pray he brings back some of the passion for the pitch.

                  Also, off the top of my head, remember that softball players are taught to throw the ball completely different than a baseball player. Girls that have been brought up in softball typically don't throw the ball with mechanics for top speed. When my daughter went and tried out for one of the top softball teams in the state (10u, when she was 8), the older girls (teenagers assisting the team) kept trying to get her to change her throw and it was making her mad. Might I add, they wanted her as a center fielder, and at 8, she easily topped their strongest arms. I don't think it's because she was special, I believe it's because of the mechanics she was using. (She turned them down, as she wanted to keep playing baseball. I'm the one that took her to the softball tryout.)

                  Throwing this out there in the realm of theory... Most olympic records regarding speed have women at about 90% of men. If we take that as a measure, then we have the fastest throwing men in the low 100's. Theoretically, the fastest throwing women should be in the low 90's. Finding women genetically capable of this just won't happen as the sampling size is so minute, because girls don't play baseball and aren't taught proper overhand pitching mechanics. Again, just my theory.

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                  • #39
                    I don't know much about the history of the AAGPBL. I do know they first played a modified version of softball and eventually played baseball. Did any AAGPBL team ever play a baseball game against a men's baseball team?
                    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Capital City Goofball
                      For clarity purposes, I'll say this... Boots hit the homerun during the 1938 World's Softball Tournament at Soldier Field in Chicago when she played with the Chicago Down Drafts. It was the longest homerun in softball, by man or woman, at the time. I am working on softball stats for a record book and I have come across hundreds of mentions of women supposedly hitting softballs farther than 306 feet but because of shoddy record taking those homer distances are hard to verify.
                      It may have been the longest homer in the World Softball Tournament, but I doubt it approaches the longest homer by man or woman at that time. Wood bat or not, 306' feet is not a significant distance to hit a softball. I've played in plenty of wooden bat tournaments with 300' fences, and guys clear the fence by plenty (and I'm not talking about slow-pitch softball.) Outdoor softball wasn't widespread in 1938, so it may well have been a record, man or woman, at that time, but it isn't as if softball were widely played by men back then.


                      Regarding the Silver Bullets --
                      Originally posted by Capital City Goofball
                      Finally, in 1997, they had a winning season (23-22). That was also the first year the team had a home stadium so travel was not as taxing on the players. I honestly believe, had the team lasted longer, they would have eventually been able to step-up the competition.
                      But they didn't step-up the competition to get that 23-22 record. Their record improved against teams that were vastly inferior to teams they had played in prior years. If the New York Mets scheduled only games against AA teams, and their record vastly improved, would you think they were a better, and improved, franchise? If the Bullets had taken away the windmill softball pitching and put a women out there throwing overhand, how many games would they have won? They sneaked in some wins thanks to lousy teams struggling with the pitching. I could probably zip it past major league hitters if they had never faced fastpitch softball, but I know if they had about 5 minutes of batting practice, they would tee off on me. I don't think you have any clue how talented major league players are.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Capital City Goofball
                        Do I need to start posting my sources? Read everything I post, not what you want to dispute
                        Just because I don't comment/dispute part of what you wrote doesn't mean I haven't read it. I've read every word with some amusement. BTW, I'll decide which part I want to dispute. You don't get to pick it for me.

                        Originally posted by Capital City Goofball
                        So your saying their win total went up cause their competition went down? Who were they playing against American Legion teams?
                        Yes, that is what I am saying. In 1997, they had difficulty getting games. The novelty was wearing off, and they weren't drawing much. It was much like the King & His Court and the Queen and Her Court. Interesting the first time through, but not much interest to see again. They had trouble scheduling games, because the teams they had been getting clobbered by didn't want to waste their time. Look at the Silver Bullets website. They don't even list the names of the teams they played in 1997. They were mostly semi-pro town teams comprised of has-beens and never-wases -- players not good enough for minor league baseball. It was a far cry from the minor league teams they started out playing.

                        I have a friend who played with the Silver Bullets in their first season. She says their games were a joke. I've seen her play softball. Nice lady, but the only spot she could compete for on my teams would be bat girl.

                        Originally posted by Capital City Goofball
                        only one female is trying and until she makes it this topic will just be opinion anyway...
                        Until she makes it? You mean, like, maybe next year? Your lack of appreciation for the talent required to play major league baseball is astounding. You may have the last word if you like. I will no longer respond to your nonsensical posts.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Capital City Goofball
                          It's funny that you continue to argue my statements like I am pulling this stuff out of the air. Do I need to start posting my sources?
                          Posting your sources is always a good idea here. I'd really like to see your source for that "any one of these ballplayers could hold their own against men" quote. Where did you get it from, www.TheOnion.com?

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                          • #43
                            This guy is listed at 5'5" and 148 lbs. He once hit three home runs in one game.

                            Freddie Patek.jpg

                            So I'm still going with a Jessica Ennis type with baseball skills at second base. Playing second base has the shortest throw. With her speed and explosiveness just maybe she can do what Juan Pierre does?

                            Jessica Ennis 3.jpg

                            Jessica Ennis 4.jpg

                            Jessica Ennis 6.jpg

                            Jessica Ennis 5.jpg
                            Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 01-07-2013, 03:50 PM.
                            Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
                              So I'm still going with a Jessica Ennis type with baseball skills at second base. Playing second base has the shortest throw. With her speed and explosiveness just maybe she can do what Juan Pierre does?
                              If a woman with that speed and explosiveness can have a decent arm and hit, she could have a shot. There are, however, too many second basemen these days who can hit for power. Everything else being equal (glovework, turning the DP, range, speed, contact hitting, base stealing,) the nod would go to the player with more power. Nonetheless, I believe your suggestion is more viable than a knuckleball pitcher.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Macker View Post
                                If a woman with that speed and explosiveness can have a decent arm and hit, she could have a shot. There are, however, too many second basemen these days who can hit for power. Everything else being equal (glovework, turning the DP, range, speed, contact hitting, base stealing,) the nod would go to the player with more power. Nonetheless, I believe your suggestion is more viable than a knuckleball pitcher.
                                I think the ability to hit is the most crucial skill to have.
                                Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 01-07-2013, 11:41 AM.
                                Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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