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Shibe Park / Connie Mack Stadium

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  • #91
    Originally posted by DaBigMotor View Post
    Whenver I hear something like this from a fan, I'm always wondering...are you an architect? A builder? You are 100% certain that this was a feasible and best option? How? What are the logistics? Where is the plan? The financing?
    That's the 1970s for you. "Urban renewal" consisted of bulldozing entire neighborhoods, and teams actually saw more value in a turfed monstrosity than their classic, irreplaceable baseball facilities. It's like looking back on bizaro world.

    There was no plan nor any financing for a Shibe renovation, but that's more a result of a lack of vision on the part of the city of Philadelphia, MLB and the Phillies' ownership than any indictment of the ballpark. The Phillies' lack of success there - on the field and at the turnstile - also played a part, as Shibe wasn't bathed in glory like Yankee Stadium, Lambeau and (to a far lesser degree) Soldier Field, the three parks that got reprieves.

    The city of New York and the Yankees made a commitment to history and to the Bronx. Philly politicians and ownership saw fit to abandon their history as well as the surrounding community, and that neighborhood remains a wreck even to this day.

    No unbiased observer could argue that the franchise was best served by moving to the Vet.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by J.R. View Post
      That's the 1970s for you. "Urban renewal" consisted of bulldozing entire neighborhoods, and teams actually saw more value in a turfed monstrosity than their classic, irreplaceable baseball facilities. It's like looking back on bizaro world.

      There was no plan nor any financing for a Shibe renovation, but that's more a result of a lack of vision on the part of the city of Philadelphia, MLB and the Phillies' ownership than any indictment of the ballpark. The Phillies' lack of success there - on the field and at the turnstile - also played a part, as Shibe wasn't bathed in glory like Yankee Stadium, Lambeau and (to a far lesser degree) Soldier Field, the three parks that got reprieves.

      The city of New York and the Yankees made a commitment to history and to the Bronx. Philly politicians and ownership saw fit to abandon their history as well as the surrounding community, and that neighborhood remains a wreck even to this day.

      No unbiased observer could argue that the franchise was best served by moving to the Vet.
      You missed the poster's original point - how do you know it was structurally feasible? Not every building can be saved, not every facade can be separated from the superstructure supporting it. Yes they did it with Soldier but that doesn't mean it could be done with every stadium. To be unbiased you must attempt to learn all the facts

      A few years ago our local library needed to expand and bought a former bank in town, only about 30 years old. Lovely building in great shape - but the interior would have to be gutted to remodel. After 3 very expensive surveys ( they didn't like the first one so they commisioned 2 more) it was found the building HAD to be leveled - no chance for gutting it and leaving the shell. You have to consult experts first!
      Last edited by Bazookadale; 05-27-2008, 11:31 AM. Reason: sp
      Alcohol
      Tobacco
      Firearms
      should be a convenience store,
      not a government agency

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      • #93
        Originally posted by lollar View Post
        I've heard some rather interesting stories from people that went to Shibe Park/Connie Mack in the '50's and '60's....about how awful the neighborhood was. Without getting into specifics (many of which I don't recall) it was about as bad as you could imagine.
        It's still that bad. I lived in Hell's Kitchen in the late 80's/early 90's, and it was paradise compared to North Philly.

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        • #94
          Maybe not such a good example.
          I grew up in Elizabethtown. Yeah, and the library in Elizabethtown, PA would have looked like it was housed in a 70's era "mod" bank. Kind of like leaving these 70's era cookie cutter stadia for the retro style stadium. It would not have been aesthetically pleasing. Not worth saving that building, definitely worth the upgrade.
          A great book for anyone interested in the story of Shibe Park/Connie Mack is: "To Everything a Season" by Bruce Kulick. I believe it was published in the late 80's.
          "I wouldn't say I was the best manager in the business. But I was in the top one."
          - Brian Clough
          "I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
          I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob"

          - John Lennon

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          • #95
            Originally posted by J.R. View Post
            No unbiased observer could argue that the franchise was best served by moving to the Vet.
            Well I could be considered biased since I am a Phils fan, but history shows that the Phillies have been a much more successful franchise in the post-Shibe Park era (the 1950 team was the only 1st place Phils team ever to play in Shibe Park). If the move to a new stadium was even partly responsible for a change in the franchise, then I would say they were better served.

            There's also the fact that the place was falling apart, but that's already been discussed.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Bazookadale View Post
              You missed the poster's original point - how do you know it was structurally feasible? Not every building can be saved, not every facade can be separated from the superstructure supporting it. Yes they did it with Soldier but that doesn't mean it could be done with every stadium. To be unbiased you must attempt to learn all the facts
              I concede this, but note that we'll never know since TPTB never even gave it a thought.

              Originally posted by btown12 View Post
              Well I could be considered biased since I am a Phils fan, but history shows that the Phillies have been a much more successful franchise in the post-Shibe Park era (the 1950 team was the only 1st place Phils team ever to play in Shibe Park). If the move to a new stadium was even partly responsible for a change in the franchise, then I would say they were better served.
              They would have won regardless - Shibe wasn't the Phillies' problem in the preceding years. If anything it should have made for a formidable home park advantage ... imagine the blueblood Dodgers having to come into that environment for the playoffs.

              Comment


              • #97
                Absolute beauty from xnedski of Flickr, from a personal negative.

                Tuesday, May 30th, 1961, vs Milwaukee Braves, first game of a doubleheader - top of the 3rd, Johnny Callison holding on John DeMerit, Don Ferrarese pitching, and yes, 4 umpires. 3-1 Braves, final. Philly would take the nightcap, 11-4. No HR's from Aaron or Eddie Mathews today, but Aaron did hit the game-winning triple in this first game.

                Last edited by alpineinc; 05-27-2008, 09:32 PM.
                Classic baseball and ballparks https://twitter.com/behindthebagbtb

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                • #98
                  Great pic

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock View Post
                    Great pic
                    Agreed.....man I wish I could have been alive when that place was still in use

                    Comment


                    • Old Shibe Park aerials.

                      This link has several nice old shots of Shibe park taken from above.

                      http://digital.hagley.org/cdm4/resul...T=%2Fp268001uw
                      Last edited by Lpeters199; 05-30-2008, 06:41 AM. Reason: not needed

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                      • Joe D. at Shibe Park.

                        A nice Corbis shot.

                        Last edited by Lpeters199; 07-18-2008, 01:59 PM.

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                        • Originally posted by Lpeters199 View Post
                          This link has several nice old shots of Shibe park taken from above.

                          http://digital.hagley.org/cdm4/resul...T=%2Fp268001uw
                          WOW, these are great. Some good detective work, LPeters!

                          Thought I'd throw some up right here for posterity.

                          Aug 1929, Baker Bowl and Shibe:




                          1929 WS:







                          1930 WS:

                          Last edited by alpineinc; 05-09-2011, 07:20 AM.
                          Classic baseball and ballparks https://twitter.com/behindthebagbtb

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                          • More:

                            June 1939:











                            Thanks again LPeters for these great finds!
                            Last edited by alpineinc; 05-09-2011, 07:33 AM. Reason: Original links too big!
                            Classic baseball and ballparks https://twitter.com/behindthebagbtb

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                            • Unbelievable photos of Shibe Park at this site.

                              This link will take you to Shibe Park heaven:

                              http://www.philadelphiaathletics.org/

                              Comment


                              • Fans at Shibe Park

                                Barbed wire?!

                                Last edited by Lpeters199; 07-18-2008, 01:59 PM.

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