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  • Originally posted by Jim Vaz View Post
    I don't know why people go nuts about this topic all the time.

    You can't please everyone I guess.

    Look some people like the HOK designs. To you it may be mediocrity, but to others including myself I like the homey, smaller feel of todays venues. Am I right or wrong? Neither, its just the opinion I hold. Many of them look the same is the complaints of some, but didn't they also look somewhat the same in the 1920's when they were being built with obstructed poles and overhang roofs like those found in Yankee Stadium and Tiger Stadium. In the 60's and 70's they all started to take on the Roman coliseum look, and now today they have taken on the retro brick look with the added touches of today. So we have gone back into our past, big deal! We live in a copy cat world where trends follow the next.

    You look at the architechture of soccer venues in Europe, now being built in stranger and more unique designs, they too have started to all look the same. Now are they nice? Too many yes, some like that style. Others don't.

    I just don't see why everyone wants to fight about it. I don't disagree, there are some places "IMO" that could be done better, I think many will agree that places like GAB in Cincy is not a great venue, but it still boils down to a matter of opinion and to some degrees a matter of geography. Most Americans want a venue that is comfortable, accessable, fan friendly, has all the amenities, etc. So in Europe they make venues a different way. Thats "their" style, we have ours!

    I agree completely.. I think those European venues are ugly and the new Design concept for Tampa is Unique but Blah IMO, reminds me of the Big O in Montreal a little bit. Being different is fine but it aint always better. They tried to go out of the Box a little bit with this Nats stadium but apparently many dont like it. I cant judge a stadium too much by pictures so unless i can see them in person its hard to really hold judgement...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Jim Vaz View Post
      So in Europe they make venues a different way. Thats "their" style, we have ours!
      It's interesting you say that, because alot of people here have said they wish the ballparks would take on a more European type design because they're "unique". Well if all the ballparks here started to look like the European soccer stadiums then there really isn't any different unique designs. In the end you'll basically be copying another design and it will be the same thing. Personally I like the newer ballparks look and feel. Yea some do look the same and need work but nothing is perfect. As for those ugly european soccer stadiums that are praised as unique, imo they all end up being quite similar in design.

      As for Nationals Park, I really don't care for the design, but someone is bound to like it this April. It isn't my favorite team's stadium so I really don't have to worry about seeing it every game.
      The 27 Time World Series Champions New York Yankees!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Yankeefan90 View Post
        It's interesting you say that, because alot of people here have said they wish the ballparks would take on a more European type design because they're "unique". Well if all the ballparks here started to look like the European soccer stadiums then there really isn't any different unique designs. In the end you'll basically be copying another design and it will be the same thing.
        My interest in the European designs is that they're different from the rut we're in over here. If we designed a park using the advancements of European soccer stadiums, at least it's an advancement from 1990's Camden Yards design. Of course copying a European stadium would be derivative, that's why we should use their technology and materials to create something that would fit our sport.

        Instead, HOK is becoming Deconstructivist with MN and Washington, which is just about the worst thing I can think of. If I were designing ballparks, and knew that people required an American style of architecture from the early 1900s, I'd go back to the Art Deco/Beaux Arts type of monumentalism.

        Look at Richard Morris Hunt's work, and you can see the power of his simplicity. Now, if you combine the strength and lasting power of Hunt's architecture, and combine it with technology like, say, Olympiastadion Munchen's roof, Allianz Arena's advanced amenities, or Olympiastadion Berlin's new aesthetic, you have something that honors the sport rather than treats it as a sideshow.
        http://www.virtualfenway.com

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jim Vaz
          I honestly think that Citi Field and the new Yankee Stadium will be two of 'the' very best ballparks in baseball. I think so much has been learned from those built from the early 90's to today that they have really figured out whats going to be good and incorporate all that good stuff in while leaving a lot of the nonsense out.
          I'm sure many Yankee faithful will not necessarily take to the new stadium right away and thats understandable simply because of all the history and uniqueness of the original stadium, but over time I think we will both have spectaculiar parks that most will be very proud of.
          Sorry Jim, I just don't see NYS, Citi Field, and the Nats Park as being anything but major disappointments. (especially for how much public money was spent to build them.) You're right though, it is a matter of opinion, and many fans will feel the same way as you. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Lafferty Daniel View Post
            Sorry Jim, I just don't see NYS, Citi Field, and the Nats Park as being anything but major disappointments. (especially for how much public money was spent to build them.) You're right though, it is a matter of opinion, and many fans will feel the same way as you. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


            I just dont see how you can call them dissappointments when they arent even finished yet, you havent seen them in person, or actually gone to a game there cause they obviously arent done.. So Your opinion is based on what exactly,??? that goes for everybody IMO.. Judging a stadium on pictures alone , and we all do it, is really not an accurate way to form a complete opinion..

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Lafferty Daniel View Post
              Sorry Jim, I just don't see NYS, Citi Field, and the Nats Park as being anything but major disappointments. (especially for how much public money was spent to build them.) You're right though, it is a matter of opinion, and many fans will feel the same way as you. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
              Well we both do agree on one thing and that is the use of public funding. That just drives me nuts. These owners and MLB don't have enough money, now people who never even attend these games have to pay the bill for some billion dollar enterprise? please!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sean O View Post
                At the same time, quality isn't exactly correlated to the cost. Look at PNC, it's probably the smallest, but they oriented it to the city, created a cohesive seating arrangement, integrated the retro elements subtly rather than shouting them, and generally looks like a polished work.

                The Nats park looks like an erector set that someone kept adding to, almost as if they had no idea what they were going for originally. Seats show up and disappear, the exterior has absolutely no idea what it wants to be, the aisles are going in every direction, and the designers didn't deem it necessary to block out the view of the parking garages in left.

                For $600m I'd expect something that looked planned instead of totally haphazard. I know HOK seems to be on a deconstructivist kick between the MN and Washington parks, but you can choose your source material and execution better. I may think Frank Gehry is the antichrist, but at least his creations look like they were all done by the same guy at the same time.
                Sean I like your point about PNC, but at the same time not every city can integrate their park into the surroundings like the unique way that PCS was able to. You look at Philadelphia for instance, the bottom line is that the city keeps all of its major sports venues in the South part of the city where its less congested and saves the city from the traffic issues that venues bring upon a city. So they built Citizens Park. Certainly not one of my favorites, but ultimately a giant step over the cavernous Vet and really what else could they for instance have done? Nobody would want a ballpark on Market Street or Penns Landing.

                I accecpt and honor everyones opinion on this fascinating topic, my only question to you is what essentially would make your perfect design say for instance the new Nats park? I personally don't care for the entire project, but there are some things I like about it, others that I think could be improved for instance the seating angles. I personally love building like Yankee Stadium that almost hang over a field and are steep, but thats me. What would you do?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jim Vaz View Post
                  Well we both do agree on one thing and that is the use of public funding. That just drives me nuts. These owners and MLB don't have enough money, now people who never even attend these games have to pay the bill for some billion dollar enterprise? please!
                  Actually the Yankees paid for thier $800million stadium by themselves. The other $400million was for infrastructure that the city and state has the responsibilty for, like a Metro North station (easy travel for all citizens), new parking to relieve some of the congestion. Also replacement parks as well as park improvements. Citi Field I'm not sure but I think most of the stadium is being paid for by the Mets.

                  But unfortunatly not all teams are like the Mets and the Yankees who pay for their own stadium. In other cities the team uses it as a business chip, the city doesn't waste millions on taxpayers money to build a stadium we will find another palce that will. It's sad that most taxpayer's money build thier team's stadium, and have to pay the ridiculous prices to get in.
                  The 27 Time World Series Champions New York Yankees!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Yankeefan90 View Post
                    Actually the Yankees paid for thier $800million stadium by themselves. The other $400million was for infrastructure that the city and state has the responsibilty for, like a Metro North station (easy travel for all citizens), new parking to relieve some of the congestion. Also replacement parks as well as park improvements. Citi Field I'm not sure but I think most of the stadium is being paid for by the Mets.

                    But unfortunatly not all teams are like the Mets and the Yankees who pay for their own stadium. In other cities the team uses it as a business chip, the city doesn't waste millions on taxpayers money to build a stadium we will find another palce that will. It's sad that most taxpayer's money build thier team's stadium, and have to pay the ridiculous prices to get in.
                    Sorry, not even close. Check out some articles I've cross-posted from baseballprospectus, either in the CitiField or Yankee Stadium thread. Neither team is coming remotely close to paying for even a majority of their stadium, no matter what the press releases say.
                    http://www.virtualfenway.com

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jim Vaz View Post
                      I accecpt and honor everyones opinion on this fascinating topic, my only question to you is what essentially would make your perfect design say for instance the new Nats park?
                      Good question. I dunno if this has already been mentioned in this long thread, but my :twocents: is that the designers should have looked back to the Greco-Roman achitecture that inspired the public buildings of DC and reflect it in the stadium design. I'm not saying they should have built a Greek amphitheater:



                      But the could have included some echo of the city and its past somewhere.

                      Comment


                      • Looks like the Nats are getting the March 30th nationally televised game they wanted... just not against the Mets. They'll be playing Atlanta.
                        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...121401558.html

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                          • Hey Ralf, welcome over here. Always nice to see a Refugee here.

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                            • Originally posted by nymdan9 View Post
                              Hey Ralf, welcome over here. Always nice to see a Refugee here.
                              Thanks. I've been lurking for a bit and figured I might as well sign up.

                              Comment


                              • Here's the Nats schedule for their inaugural season in Nationals Park.

                                Unfortunately there are no Mets series during the weekend, and if I'm not mistaken no Phillies series either, which will make it hard for fans in NY and Philly who were hoping to watch their team play at the new park to catch a game.

                                MARCH/APRIL

                                Date Day Team Time
                                3/30 Sunday ATLANTA 8:05 PM
                                3/31 Monday at Philadelphia 3:05 pm
                                4/1 Tuesday OFF DAY
                                4/2 Wednesday at Philadelphia 7:05 pm
                                4/3 Thursday at Philadelphia 1:05 pm
                                4/4 Friday at St. Louis 8:15 pm
                                4/5 Saturday at St. Louis 1:15 pm
                                4/6 Sunday at St. Louis 2:15 pm
                                4/7 Monday FLORIDA 7:10 PM
                                4/8 Tuesday OFF DAY
                                4/9 Wednesday FLORIDA 7:10 PM
                                4/10 THURSDAY FLORIDA 7:10 PM
                                4/11 FRIDAY ATLANTA 7:35 PM
                                4/12 SATURDAY ATLANTA 1:05 PM
                                4/13 SUNDAY ATLANTA 1:35 PM
                                4/14 Monday OFF DAY
                                4/15 Tuesday at New York (NL) 7:10 pm
                                4/16 Wednesday at New York (NL) 7:10 pm
                                4/17 Thursday at New York (NL) 7:10 pm
                                4/18 Friday at Florida 7:10 pm
                                4/19 Saturday at Florida TBD
                                4/20 Sunday at Florida 1:05 pm
                                4/21 Monday at Atlanta 7:05 pm
                                4/22 Tuesday at Atlanta 7:05 pm
                                4/23 Wednesday NEW YORK (NL) 7:10 PM
                                4/24 THURSDAY NEW YORK (NL) 7:10 PM
                                4/25 FRIDAY CHICAGO (NL) 7:35 PM
                                4/26 SATURDAY CHICAGO (NL) 7:10 PM
                                4/27 SUNDAY CHICAGO (NL) 1:35 PM
                                4/28 Monday OFF DAY
                                4/29 TUESDAY ATLANTA 7:10 PM
                                4/30 WEDNESDAY ATLANTA 4:35 PM

                                MAY

                                Date Day Team Time
                                5/1 THURSDAY PITTSBURGH 7:10 PM
                                5/2 FRIDAY PITTSBURGH 7:35 PM
                                5/3 SATURDAY PITTSBURGH 1:05 PM
                                5/4 SUNDAY PITTSBURGH 1:35 PM
                                5/5 Monday OFF DAY
                                5/6 Tuesday at Houston 8:05 pm
                                5/7 Wednesday at Houston 8:05 pm
                                5/8 Thursday at Houston 8:05 pm
                                5/9 FRIDAY FLORIDA 7:35 PM
                                5/10 SATURDAY FLORIDA 7:10 PM
                                5/11 SUNDAY FLORIDA 1:35 PM
                                5/12 Monday at New York (NL) 7:10 pm
                                5/13 Tuesday at New York (NL) 7:10 pm
                                5/14 Wednesday at New York (NL) 7:10 pm
                                5/15 Thursday at New York (NL) 1:10 pm
                                5/16 Friday at Baltimore 7:05 pm
                                5/17 Saturday at Baltimore 7:05 pm
                                5/18 Sunday at Baltimore 1:35 pm
                                5/19 MONDAY PHILADELPHIA 7:10 PM
                                5/20 TUESDAY PHILADELPHIA 7:10 PM
                                5/21 WEDNESDAY PHILADELPHIA 7:10 PM
                                5/22 Thursday OFF DAY
                                5/23 FRIDAY MILWAUKEE 7:35 PM
                                5/24 SATURDAY MILWAUKEE 7:10 PM
                                5/25 SUNDAY MILWAUKEE 1:35 PM
                                5/26 MONDAY MILWAUKEE 1:35 PM
                                5/27 Tuesday at San Diego 10:05 pm
                                5/28 Wednesday at San Diego 10:05 pm
                                5/29 Thursday at San Diego 3:35 pm
                                5/30 Friday at Arizona 9:40 pm
                                5/31 Saturday at Arizona 8:10 pm

                                JUNE

                                Date Day Team Time
                                6/1 Sunday at Arizona 4:10 pm
                                6/2 Monday OFF DAY
                                6/3 TUESDAY ST. LOUIS 7:10 PM
                                6/4 WEDNESDAY ST. LOUIS 7:10 PM
                                6/5 THURSDAY ST. LOUIS 7:10 PM
                                6/6 FRIDAY SAN FRANCISCO 7:35 PM
                                6/7 SATURDAY SAN FRANCISCO 7:10 PM
                                6/8 SUNDAY SAN FRANCISCO 1:35 PM
                                6/9 MONDAY SAN FRANCISCO 7:10 PM
                                6/10 Tuesday at Pittsburgh 7:05 pm
                                6/11 Wednesday at Pittsburgh 7:05 pm
                                6/12 Thursday at Pittsburgh 12:35 pm
                                6/13 Friday at Seattle 10:10 pm
                                6/14 Saturday at Seattle 10:10 pm
                                6/15 Sunday at Seattle 4:10 pm
                                6/16 Monday OFF DAY
                                6/17 Tuesday at Minnesota 8:10 pm
                                6/18 Wednesday at Minnesota 8:10 pm
                                6/19 Thursday at Minnesota 1:10 pm
                                6/20 FRIDAY TEXAS 7:35 PM
                                6/21 SATURDAY TEXAS 7:10 PM
                                6/22 SUNDAY TEXAS 1:35 PM
                                6/23 MONDAY LOS ANGELES (AL) 7:10 PM
                                6/24 TUESDAY LOS ANGELES (AL) 7:10 PM
                                6/25 WEDNESDAY LOS ANGELES (AL) 7:10 PM
                                6/26 Thursday OFF DAY
                                6/27 FRIDAY BALTIMORE 7:35 PM
                                6/28 SATURDAY BALTIMORE 7:10 PM
                                6/29 SUNDAY BALTIMORE 1:35 PM
                                6/30 Monday at Florida 7:10 pm

                                JULY

                                Date Day Team Time
                                7/1 Tuesday at Florida 7:10 pm
                                7/2 Wednesday at Florida 12:05 pm
                                7/3 Thursday at Cincinnati 7:10 pm
                                7/4 Friday at Cincinnati 1:15 pm
                                7/5 Saturday at Cincinnati 7:10 pm
                                7/6 Sunday at Cincinnati 1:15 pm
                                7/7 Monday OFF DAY
                                7/8 TUESDAY ARIZONA 7:10 PM
                                7/9 WEDNESDAY ARIZONA 7:10 PM
                                7/10 THURSDAY ARIZONA 7:10 PM
                                7/11 FRIDAY HOUSTON 7:35 PM
                                7/12 SATURDAY HOUSTON 7:10 PM
                                7/13 SUNDAY HOUSTON 1:35 PM
                                7/14 Monday All-Star Break
                                7/15 Tuesday All-Star Game at New York (AL)
                                7/16 Wednesday All-Star Break
                                7/17 Thursday OFF DAY
                                7/18 Friday at Atlanta 7:35 pm
                                7/19 Saturday at Atlanta 7:05 pm
                                7/20 Sunday at Atlanta 1:35 pm
                                7/21 Monday OFF DAY
                                7/22 Tuesday at San Francisco 10:15 pm
                                7/23 Wednesday at San Francisco 10:15 pm
                                7/24 Thursday at San Francisco 3:35 pm
                                7/25 Friday at Los Angeles (NL) 10:40 pm
                                7/26 Saturday at Los Angeles (NL) TBD
                                7/27 Sunday at Los Angeles NL) TBD
                                7/28 Monday OFF DAY
                                7/29 TUESDAY PHILADELPHIA 7:10 PM
                                7/30 WEDNESDAY PHILADELPHIA 7:10 PM
                                7/31 THURSDAY PHILADELPHIA 7:10 PM

                                AUGUST

                                Date Day Team Time
                                8/1 FRIDAY CINCINNATI 7:35 PM
                                8/2 SATURDAY CINCINNATI 7:10 PM
                                8/3 SUNDAY CINCINNATI 1:35 PM
                                8/4 Monday at Colorado 9:05 pm
                                8/5 Tuesday at Colorado 9:05 pm
                                8/6 Wednesday at Colorado 9:05 pm
                                8/7 Thursday at Colorado 3:05 pm
                                8/8 Friday at Milwaukee 8:05 pm
                                8/9 Saturday at Milwaukee 7:05 pm
                                8/10 Sunday at Milwaukee 2:05 pm
                                8/11 Monday at Milwaukee 2:05 pm
                                8/12 TUESDAY NEW YORK (NL) 7:10 PM
                                8/13 WEDNESDAY NEW YORK (NL) 7:10 PM
                                8/14 THURSDAY NEW YORK (NL) 7:10 PM
                                8/15 FRIDAY COLORADO 7:35 PM
                                8/16 SATURDAY COLORADO 7:10 PM
                                8/17 SUNDAY COLORADO 1:35 PM
                                8/18 Monday OFF DAY
                                8/19 Tuesday at Philadelphia 7:05 pm
                                8/20 Wednesday at Philadelphia 7:05 pm
                                8/21 Thursday at Philadelphia TBD
                                8/22 Friday at Chicago (NL) 2:20 pm
                                8/23 Saturday at Chicago (NL) TBD
                                8/24 Sunday at Chicago (NL) 2:20 pm
                                8/25 Monday OFF DAY
                                8/26 TUESDAY LOS ANGELES (NL) 7:10 PM
                                8/27 WEDNESDAY LOS ANGELES (NL) 7:10 PM
                                8/28 THURSDAY LOS ANGELES (NL) 7:10 PM
                                8/29 FRIDAY ATLANTA 7:35 PM
                                8/30 SATURDAY ATLANTA 7:10 PM
                                8/31 SUNDAY ATLANTA 1:35 PM

                                SEPTEMBER

                                Date Day Team Time
                                9/1 MONDAY PHILADELPHIA 3:05 PM
                                9/2 TUESDAY PHILADELPHIA 7:10 PM
                                9/3 WEDNESDAY PHILADELPHIA 7:10 PM
                                9/4 Thursday at Atlanta 7:05 pm
                                9/5 Friday at Atlanta 7:35 pm
                                9/6 Saturday at Atlanta 7:05 pm
                                9/7 Sunday at Atlanta 1:35 pm
                                9/8 Monday OFF DAY
                                9/9 Tuesday at New York (NL) 7:10 pm
                                9/10 Wednesday at New York (NL) 7:10 pm
                                9/11 Thursday OFF DAY
                                9/12 Friday at Florida 7:10 pm
                                9/13 Saturday at Florida 7:10 pm
                                9/14 Sunday at Florida 1:05 pm
                                9/15 MONDAY NEW YORK (NL) 7:10 PM
                                9/16 TUESDAY NEW YORK (NL) 7:10 PM
                                9/17 WEDNESDAY NEW YORK (NL) 7:10 PM
                                9/18 THURSDAY NEW YORK (NL) 7:10 PM
                                9/19 FRIDAY SAN DIEGO 7:35 PM
                                9/20 SATURDAY SAN DIEGO 7:10 PM
                                9/21 SUNDAY SAN DIEGO 1:35 PM
                                9/22 Monday OFF DAY
                                9/23 TUESDAY FLORIDA 7:10 PM
                                9/24 WEDNESDAY FLORIDA 7:10 PM
                                9/25 THURSDAY FLORIDA 7:10 PM
                                9/26 Friday at Philadelphia 7:05 pm
                                9/27 Saturday at Philadelphia 7:05 pm
                                9/28 Sunday at Philadelphia 1:35 pm

                                http://blog.washingtonpost.com/natio...e_release.html

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