Nationals Park

[PeteU]

No.

It shows that they had one bad night.

Now, at the end of the season we might look back on this as an early example of a lack of interest. But right now, it's way too early to make such judgments.

Agreed. I think in the end, the Nationals will most likely draw slightly above the league average. There will be a good enough sense of intrigue as to the new ballpark. And if the Nationals compete, even moreso.

They won't break attendance records, nor sellout every game, even in the middle of summer.

Right now, I don't know if I can if DC is either a great or a bad market for baseball. They tread water. It will be enough to keep them in DC for the 30 year duration of the lease.

And to be fair for the record, I don't think my personal National League team--the Florida Marlins--will draw that much above the league average when they move to the new ballpark,either . There are still factors that prevent Miami from being a great market for baseball, factors beyond just a new stadium. But for the Marlins, just drawing at the league average (or slightly better) will be a welcome improvement.

[machpost]

It is somewhat pathetic. If Yankee Stadium opens in 2009 and I can't get tickets to the opener, as a fan I'm going to buy tickets to the next first available game I can to check out the new park, and I'm going to buy them weeks in advance. This clearly shows the huge lack of current DC interest in the Nationals.

It's apples and oranges. The Yankees and Yankee Stadium have a long and successful heritage. D.C. is about one tenth the size of New York. The Nationals, having moved here from Montreal, are practically an expansion franchise in this market, and it will take years to build a large fan base. Also, D.C. proper is a city that is experiencing a renaissance and growing rapidly, which means thousands upon thousands of potential new fans within close proximity to the ballpark every year.

Give it time. Unless the owners are exceptionally bad at running a ballclub, the Nats will eventually have the revenue to compete with the likes of NY, Boston, Chicago and LA, year in and year out.

[Lafferty Daniel]

But more to the point, you shouldn't compare your fan base to Baltimore's. Their's is depressed and bludgened and there's nothing exciting and interesting to compell them to show up at this time.
DC, on the other hand, has a new team and a beautiful new ballpark, by all accounts one of the jewels of the NL. What's not to be excited about ?

At least Baltimore fans have Nick Markakis, Adam Jones, and Brian Roberts (for now.)

You really think Nationals park is one of the jewels of the NL?

[whoisonit]

You really think Nationals park is one of the jewels of the NL?

Yes. One of many, but yes.

[Lafferty Daniel]

Yes. One of many, but yes.

How come? (not trying to get in an argument...I just don't understand why some people actually like Nationals Park.)

[whoisonit]

How come? (not trying to get in an argument...I just don't understand why some people actually like Nationals Park.)

I like the outside, how many red brick stadiums do they have to build ?
Also, I love the grey brick behind the catcher. Makes the park instantly recognisable on TV, like PNC with the tanish bricks. Lets face it, we see most of the games we watch on TV, not at the parks. The centerfield camera is the shot we watch the most.
Besides that, from the pictures I've seen, it looks beautiful. I can't wait to see some games there.

[FearlessFreep]

DC fans are spread pretty thin this week with the Capitals, Wizards and Nationals all vying for fans. Monday's game also wasn't included in any of the 20-game packages, which were the most popular season package this year. Plus the weather was like Scotland in January and there was a small basketball game on TV. And it didn't help that it was the Marlins.

Compared with Monday's non-openers attendance, it's not that bad:
BAL (Afternoon) 10,774
CIN (Noon) 14,647
COL (night) 24,304
NYY (night) 41,302

Everything else played was a home opener for the host team.

Montreal-like? Nah. [Well maybe Baltimore's was.] It's one game and it'll get better.

[six4three]

I like the outside, how many red brick stadiums do they have to build ?
Also, I love the grey brick behind the catcher. Makes the park instantly recognisable on TV, like PNC with the tanish bricks. Lets face it, we see most of the games we watch on TV, not at the parks. The centerfield camera is the shot we watch the most.

That's a nice touch.

I really wish they had used cream city brick for the backstop at Miller Park for just that reason.

[Smirkman]

I don't believe in smack talking fans of other cities, so I wouldn't use the word 'pathetic'. Certianly, if a team only draws 24,000 FRESH off a WS appearence, your not talking about a great, or even a good, baseball town. It's unfortunate. Put KC or Pitsburg in the series, and see if you can find a ticket for the opening series even if it's 30 degrees and sleeting.

There's nothing wrong with a teams fans comming out to see them, wherever they may be playing. When they do show up, especialy if they're in the majority, are they supposed to remain quiet and not have a good time ?

Firstly, it's surprising that many Oriole fans are still willing to shell out money after a decade disaster and malfesence. The 10,000 plus that showed up are true fans.
But more to the point, you shouldn't compare your fan base to Baltimore's. Their's is depressed and bludgened and there's nothing exciting and interesting to compell them to show up at this time.
DC, on the other hand, has a new team and a beautiful new ballpark, by all accounts one of the jewels of the NL. What's not to be excited about ?

I'm looking forward to seeing a Met game there. I'm glad I don't have to plan way in advance either. It's great to know I'll be able to get good seats at the walk up on game day !

The "pathetic" comment came in response as a quote from nymdan. I wasn't calling Colorado pathetic. The point was that neither were pathetic, but early April attendance is not indicitive of a fan base.

[Smirkman]

I tend not to generalize and I don't like city/team smack on a neutral board.

However, just for the record and for clarification purposes:

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/box-...d=199204080BAL

April 8, 1992--Second game at Oriole Park at Camden Yards.

Attendance: 42,870.

Umm, yeah.

I was at that game BTW, but we both know I was talking about 2008. I can understand your sensitivity, however I was just pointing out that others drew worse so the "Pathetic" reference was not justified so relax.

[bigtime39]

I was disappointed with the Orioles attendance the first week, but the weather has been rather "English" for the first couple of weeks of April (the Orioles lost game three to a rainout, and there were worries about nearly every game of the Seattle series, though none came to pass).
But I think the Nationals have a reason to be worried about attendance figures like the ones posted last night. They're playing in a brand-new stadium, after all. You'd think the sheer novelty would have dragged more people out than actually came.
This brings me back to two pet peeves of mine: the unbalanced schedule and interleague play. Washington and Baltimore would benefit greatly from the elimination of both. That way, if you wanted to see an AL team, you'd go to Baltimore, and if you wanted to see one from the NL, to Washington. It would also reduce the number of times both clubs had to bring in their Florida opponents, and may have spared the clubs that particular drag on attendance this week.

[whoisonit]

DC fans are spread pretty thin this week with the Capitals, Wizards and Nationals all vying for fans. Monday's game also wasn't included in any of the 20-game packages, which were the most popular season package this year. Plus the weather was like Scotland in January and there was a small basketball game on TV. And it didn't help that it was the Marlins.

Doesn't matter if there are other choices. The question is, are you a baseball town or not ?
So what if it was the Marlins ? It's the second game at a BRAND NEW park !

[Danielh41]

The "pathetic" comment came in response as a quote from nymdan. I wasn't calling Colorado pathetic. The point was that neither were pathetic, but early April attendance is not indicitive of a fan base.

I lived in Colorado in 1994 and 1995, and tickets were very hard to come by. The Rockies sold a ton of full season tickets before they every took the field in 1993, and that accounted for the huge crowds at Mile High Stadium and at Coors Field those first few years.

Circumstances forced me to move back to Texas in 1995, and I didn't get back to visit Colorado until 2002. I was shocked how by how easy it was to get field box tickets that year. The crowd size was much smaller too. I wasn't used to seeing so many empty seats at Coors Field. I also attended games there in 2006 and in June 2007, and attendance was even less than it was in 2002. (Of course, I had a hell of a time getting tickets for game 3 of the World Series.)

I think the fanbase of the Rockies turned on the Monforts (the owners) over the past few years, and that accounts for the low attendance. The perception was that they were more concerned about making money than about winning. I was hoping that making the World Series would show that Rockies management did have a plan and that they were just being patient over the past few years as they developed talent. Hopefully, once the weather warms up and the team starts playing better, that will be the case. I know the weather in Denver hasn't been that great for baseball this week, and the 2008 team hasn't started out well. They were 1-5 before winning the last two games against the Braves. And even at 3-5, they are only averaging 2.0 runs per game.

[Smirkman]

Doesn't matter if there are other choices. The question is, are you a baseball town or not ?
So what if it was the Marlins ? It's the second game at a BRAND NEW park !

If that is a real question and not hypocritical smack, the answer is not yet. The same as any other fan base that has yet to see a winning team. Once the team wins, the fan base will build and fans will not be as fairweather.

I live in MD and this is not to piss off the Ravens fans, but the team was not a big deal until it won. They sold seats, but fans were still on the fence and had no emotional attachment until they won. Old timers that were Colts fans finally emotionally adopted the team. Once the Ravens won the Super Bowl they had a rabid fanbase that became loyal. Of couse football and baseball are different, but I believe the same thing happens in baseball with the exception of the fans buying seats for 81 games.

Until the team wins the fans will turn out on weekends, nice days and for good opponents. This is not unlike New York or Chicago or basically anywhere else. The Yankees didn't draw well in the 80's for mid week games and the Cubs didn't draw well at all until they won a Division title. I think you will see the DC fanbase grow as the team gets better. I already see a big difference between this and last year as expectations are rising.

[whoisonit]

If that is a real question and not hypocritical smack, the answer is not yet.

Legitimate question all the way. Sorry if it came off any other way.

The same as any other fan base that has yet to see a winning team.

I have to question this line of argument. You are not like any other fan base this year. You just got a ML team after how many years in the wilderness ? That itself is good for at least 2 years of packed houses. If you want to argue the novelty has worn off and you need a better reason to turn out, great ! Now you have a brand new stadium. Remember, the disscusion revoves around the SECOND game EVER played there. (caps are for emphasis)

I live in MD and this is not to piss off the Ravens fans, but the team was not a big deal until it won. They sold seats, but fans were still on the fence and had no emotional attachment until they won. Old timers that were Colts fans finally emotionally adopted the team. Once the Ravens won the Super Bowl they had a rabid fanbase that became loyal. Of couse football and baseball are different, but I believe the same thing happens in baseball with the exception of the fans buying seats for 81 games.

Until the team wins the fans will turn out on weekends, nice days and for good opponents. This is not unlike New York or Chicago or basically anywhere else. The Yankees didn't draw well in the 80's for mid week games and the Cubs didn't draw well at all until they won a Division title. I think you will see the DC fanbase grow as the team gets better. I already see a big difference between this and last year as expectations are rising.

All reasonable arguments for sure, but at the risk of being redundent, we're talking about the second game in a sparkling new, state of the art ball park. That alone should have filled seats all season. After all, the team is not horrendous. They're not going to win the division, but they're not the '93 Mets.

Hopefully there are hundreds of thousands of DC area baseball fans who share even a bit of your own enthusiasim, smirkman, and have valid reasons for their disinterest. However, 24,000 at the second game is a disheartning sign. I wouldn't say 'pathetic', but I will say 'shocking'.