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  • Originally posted by Smirkman View Post
    I live in MD and this is not to piss off the Ravens fans, but the team was not a big deal until it won. They sold seats, but fans were still on the fence and had no emotional attachment until they won. Old timers that were Colts fans finally emotionally adopted the team. Once the Ravens won the Super Bowl they had a rabid fanbase that became loyal.
    In all of Maryland, I'd say you are correct. Western Maryland, Southern Maryland, the Eastern Shore, and PG and Montgomery, the Ravens fan base didn't really take off in those areas until after the Superbowl.

    In Baltimore and the Baltimore metro area, however, enthusiasm for the Ravens started from Game 1 in 1996.

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    • Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
      Doesn't matter if there are other choices. The question is, are you a baseball town or not ?
      So what if it was the Marlins ? It's the second game at a BRAND NEW park !
      Agreed. The weather and the NCAA tourney, okay they might be considered acceptable excuses.

      But the opponent? Whatever happened to root, root, root for the HOME team?

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      • Originally posted by PeteU View Post
        Whatever happened to root, root, root for the HOME team?
        If they don't win it's a shame.

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        • Originally posted by PeteU View Post
          In all of Maryland, I'd say you are correct. Western Maryland, Southern Maryland, the Eastern Shore, and PG and Montgomery, the Ravens fan base didn't really take off in those areas until after the Superbowl.

          In Baltimore and the Baltimore metro area, however, enthusiasm for the Ravens started from Game 1 in 1996.
          I live in Howard County and attended the 2nd and 5th Ravens games. Just my take on it.

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          • The potential Nationals fan base has learned (with significant prodding from the local media) to hate Peter Angelos...but that just makes them alienated Orioles fans. A reasonable percentage have transformed that into hatred of the Orioles. But there's no real love for the Nationals...not yet. They're still defined more by what they aren't than what they are.
            If the Orioles can spin this shocking first week into something sustainable, I really don't know what's going to happen, attendance-wise, especially if the Nationals are battling the Marlins for last place in the NL East.
            If the Orioles fall back to the cellar themselves, then you're going to see two soft markets, sitting on their hands, waiting to see which team gets good first. The one that does will reap the attendance rewards.
            4 5 (7) 8 20 22 33 42 (44)

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            • Originally posted by bigtime39 View Post
              The potential Nationals fan base has learned (with significant prodding from the local media) to hate Peter Angelos...but that just makes them alienated Orioles fans. A reasonable percentage have transformed that into hatred of the Orioles. But there's no real love for the Nationals...not yet. They're still defined more by what they aren't than what they are.
              If the Orioles can spin this shocking first week into something sustainable, I really don't know what's going to happen, attendance-wise, especially if the Nationals are battling the Marlins for last place in the NL East.
              If the Orioles fall back to the cellar themselves, then you're going to see two soft markets, sitting on their hands, waiting to see which team gets good first. The one that does will reap the attendance rewards.
              There is LOVE for the Nationals, just not a huge fan base worth. There are plenty of people that I know or talk with on discussion boards like Ballpark Guys that LOVE the Nats. It will take time to convert some Orioles fans (mostly Marylanders), get some old times on board after having other out of town teams, get casual fans to like baseball after being bombarded with only Redskins coverage for 30+ years, raise a new generation of kids who have/ had parents that were any of the former.

              I think you make a good point regarding the Orioles though. Many Nats fans are extremely excited about the new park and the team, but for others they have been there and done that with Camden Yards. Nats Park is a great park, but it is not revolutionary in the way OPCY was.

              Don't condemn a fan base after 1 or 2 games. If we have a winner and fans don't show up then say what you will about Washington baseball fans.

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              • The problem with Washington baseball fans is this: The city is such a transient area to begin with that many people come here with allegiances to other teams. It's often said that everyone in Metro DC is originally from someplace else. Those who like baseball come as casual fans to watch the Nationals, identifying with the team when it does well but never really making a connection to the organization.

                This is true for every DC sports franchise, with the exception of the Redskins. The Skins' success in the 80s and early 90s built a historical bond to the core residents of the city and gave them a true identity.

                Not so for the Nationals. It will take a prolonged period of winning to begin to form that bond with the aforementioned core. Historically, DC has had very bad baseball teams for years - and cannot draw on historical success or tradition for its baseball.

                DC fans are notoriously casual in their following - different than any other city for the transient reason stated above. That makes introducing a new franchise and creating a solid core fan base very difficult.

                Will the Nationals be able to pull it off? Who knows. If so it will probably be to the extent of a franchise like Anaheim, successful but lacking in the pervasiveness into the fabric of a community like New York or Boston.

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                • I don't know that I'm willing to go that far.

                  Every sizeable city has a large percentage of people who were not born there. DC may be a little more so than some, but less than others.

                  New York has plenty of new people moving in every day, from all corners of the world. Doesn't stop this from being an excellent baseball town.

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                  • Originally posted by six4three View Post
                    Doesn't stop this from being an excellent baseball town.
                    I'm curious as to what parameters are used when someone says a city is a "great baseball town". I know from my experience that since the Phils won the NL East last year, people keep saying that Philadelphia is a great baseball town again, but to be honest nothing else changed here except the team won the division, more people got excited, and now there's a slight bump in attendance and TV ratings.

                    But trust me, it's not because this is a "baseball town", it's because people want to be a part of a winner and really love the players currently on this team (besides Adam Eaton and Flash Gordon, haha). If the Phils go 79-83 this year, I'm sure this will no longer be talked about as a "baseball town" but go back to a "football town" like the past 10-15 years (since 1993 at least, ironically the last time the Phils made the playoffs, hmmm....).

                    Anyways, that debate always interests me because it seems like such a hard thing to pin down. I do hope the Nationals have success with their new ballpark and I feel like they will, just may be a matter of time.

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                    • Last night's attendance:
                      23,340

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                      • Originally posted by GordonGecko View Post
                        Last night's attendance:
                        23,340
                        As a comparison, here's some other attendance notes from recently built ballparks, though keep in mind that none of these clubs were in the situation of moving to a new city only a few years prior.

                        Great American Ballpark 2003
                        Lowest Att. - 18,069 August 27th vs. Milwaukee
                        Total Att./Avg. Att./% Full -2,355,259/29,077/69.1%

                        Citizens Bank Park 2004
                        Lowest Att. - 30,268 on Sept 27th vs. Pittsburgh after the Phillies were eliminated from the playoff race
                        Total Att./Avg. Att./% Full - 3,206,532/40,589/93.3%

                        Petco Park 2004
                        Lowest Att. - 24,079 April 29th vs. Montreal
                        Total Att./Avg. Att./% Full - 3,040,046/37,531/89.4%

                        Busch Stadium III 2006
                        Lowest Att. - 38,728 April 26th vs. Pittsburgh (before the left field deck was completed thus a lower attendance but still a near sellout)
                        Total Att./Avg. Att./% Full - 3,407,104/42,588/90.9% - also deceiving since the stadium was not finished when it opened.

                        I feel like the Nats will probably end up somewhere in the middle of these numbers, probably falling just short of 3,000,000 in attendance. The major difference between the CIN situation as opposed to PHI, SD, and STL is that the Reds had a sub-par ballclub while the other 3 were all expected to be contenders (STL won the World Series in '06, SD was 87-75 and 3rd place in '04, PHI was 86-76 and 2nd place in '04). So in a couple of years when the Nats become more competitive, the attendance #'s could really increase.
                        Last edited by btown12; 04-10-2008, 03:20 PM.

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                        • Originally posted by six4three View Post
                          I don't know that I'm willing to go that far.

                          Every sizeable city has a large percentage of people who were not born there. DC may be a little more so than some, but less than others.

                          New York has plenty of new people moving in every day, from all corners of the world. Doesn't stop this from being an excellent baseball town.
                          Your statement is true, but people that move to Washington don't adopt the city like those that move to other places. I think it has to do with the culture of politics where Congress etc. are really from somewhere eles but live here. Does anyone consider Ted Kennedy a Virginian? In the older days government workers were allowed to pay local taxes to the jurisdition they came from thus continueing their connection to their former home. I work with plenty of people that are from other parts of the country and even though they plan to stay in Washington until they retire they still read their hometown newspaper and root for their home teams. It takes a generation to be a Washingtonan in reality. I am first generation so my loyalties are to the local team. Unfortunetly we have another unique situation here in the fact that even locval have split allegiences as Baltimore is so close. I still have many friends that would never switch even though they were born and raised here. For all of these reasons I only will be concerned if we don't draw well for a prolonged period of time once we start winning. The Nats org was ranked 9th by BA so in 3-5 years we should be able to tell.

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                          • Attendance Tonight: 24,549

                            getting better, but it's almost the weekend on a warm Thursday night.

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                            • Are the cherry blossom trees in bloom yet? They were supposed to be by the first homestand. But it's hard to tell on any of the shots I see on Flickr.

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                              • Originally posted by nymdan View Post
                                Are the cherry blossom trees in bloom yet? They were supposed to be by the first homestand. But it's hard to tell on any of the shots I see on Flickr.

                                This was two weeks ago the Sunday of the Nats home opener when I was in DC. So to answer your question, yes
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