Richmond's "the Diamond"... Illustrated!

[efin98]

Yeah, but Pawtucket is adjacent to Providence, which is relatively large and cosmopolitan for being in such a small state. They could probably just as well be the Rhode Island Red Sox, or perhaps the Providence Red Sox of Pawtucket. (Don't say it hasn't been done before....)

Providence's large population aside the two counties are virtually identical: same sized population with the same size area with a good chunk of rural area around. Rhode Island is small state so that appears to skew the size comparisons somewhat but outside the adjacent cities it's a rural area especially just east and north of the two cities(even more so just over the border in Mass.)

[PeteU]

Gwinnett County is pretty much North Atlanta, but calling the team the North Atlanta Braves would be silly.

... and would probably not go over well with a segment of the fanbase.



The G-Braves have a bright future:



Who's going to argue with a water tower/silo motto?

That will make a great outfield backdrop.

[PeteU]

Look at Pawtucket, RI: same area, same population(countywide), same distance from MLB team yet it's had a successful AAA club there for 36 season.

Yeah, but Pawtucket is adjacent to Providence, which is relatively large and cosmopolitan for being in such a small state. They could probably just as well be the Rhode Island Red Sox, or perhaps the Providence Red Sox of Pawtucket. (Don't say it hasn't been done before....)

Plus, everyone knows Pawtucket anyways thanks to the Pawtucket Patriot Brewing Company.



Come onnnn....come onnnn....

[PeteU]

How many people outside of Maryland had heard of Aberdeen before Cal Ripken planted it squarely on the map? (You do have to feel a little bit sorry for Orioles farmhands, however. After Aberdeen's facilities, there's nowhere to go but down until you reach the majors. Ripken Stadium is just so nice.)

Yeah, but Aberdeen is a Single A team. Once you get to AAA, and you have stadiums which are typically 15,000 seats and resemble minature major league parks, you get to a point where you recognize the market where they are playing in.

[Kentucky Bomber]

...whose autograph is the most valuable of all those who signed the Declaration.

Really!

Because he apparently signed 2 things in his entire life, one being the Declaration and the other...wasn't. Understandable. I mean, if you're name was Button, you wouldn't exactly want that spread around, now would you?

[JohnCropp]

Gwinnett County is pretty much North Atlanta, but calling the team the North Atlanta Braves would be silly.

... and would probably not go over well with a segment of the fanbase.



The G-Braves have a bright future:



Who's going to argue with a water tower/silo motto?

[Gary Dunaier]

Just for the hell of it, Gwinnett County is named for Declaration of Independence signer Button Gwinnett...

...whose autograph is the most valuable of all those who signed the Declaration.

Really!

[efin98]

No, from a practical and monetary standpoint, a move to Gwinnett County seems to make sense.

It's just that I find it humorous that a county which most people outside the state of Georgia were not aware of, and one that does not contain what most would consider a notable city (sorry Lawrenceville, but you ain't exactly Paris), gets to call itself a home for AAA baseball, the closest rung to the majors and a level traditionally dominated by mid-sized cities. I don't know--I guess it's the part of me that seems to favor actual cities as the home of a professional sports team as opposed to a vague suburban region.

Look at Pawtucket, RI: same area, same population(countywide), same distance from MLB team yet it's had a successful AAA club there for 36 season.

[Kentucky Bomber]

Just for the hell of it, Gwinnett County is named for Declaration of Independence signer Button Gwinnett...



One would hope they name the new Stadium the Big Button in his honor.

[bigtime39]

No, from a practical and monetary standpoint, a move to Gwinnett County seems to make sense.

It's just that I find it humorous that a county which most people outside the state of Georgia were not aware of, and one that does not contain what most would consider a notable city (sorry Lawrenceville, but you ain't exactly Paris), gets to call itself a home for AAA baseball, the closest rung to the majors and a level traditionally dominated by mid-sized cities. I don't know--I guess it's the part of me that seems to favor actual cities as the home of a professional sports team as opposed to a vague suburban region. It's the same reason I found Northern Virginia or Northern New Jersey as potential major league "cities" odd, even though the market there is substantial enough.

But hey, Gwinnett County put up the money for the team, the Braves wanted it that way, so power to them, I guess.

How many people outside of Maryland had heard of Aberdeen before Cal Ripken planted it squarely on the map? (You do have to feel a little bit sorry for Orioles farmhands, however. After Aberdeen's facilities, there's nowhere to go but down until you reach the majors. Ripken Stadium is just so nice.)

[bigtime39]

One way in which this apparent territorial "contraction" makes sense for the Braves is that it gives them yet another presence in Georgia. They are very, very good at prospecting in their own back yard. This cannot possibly hurt that prospecting.

[PeteU]

The Gwinnett (no "h") Braves will play in a new ballpark in Lawrenceville, Georgia, with the new site being no more than 40 miles from Turner Field. Lawrenceville itself has a population around 30,000; the county has around 600,000, and is growing. Basically the whole area is part of the sprawl of metro Atlanta. It will be convenient for Braves fans in the greater Atlanta area who occasionally want to see some baseball at less than major league prices, it will build the fan clubs for up and coming players, and it will be convenient for the big club in terms of arranging rehab assignments or quickly calling up fill-in players. On an everyday basis, it will have modern player facilities, things like indoor batting cages, which every new ballpark provides, but the Diamond lacked.

On the flip side, it represents something of a contraction of Braves territory overall. I live well south and west of Richmond, but I've been there plenty of times. MLB considers the entire state of Virginia to be Orioles and Nationals territory with respect to broadcasting, but there's no question but that the Braves are the most popular major league team in most areas of the state except the DC suburbs. We'll still have the Appalachian League Danville Braves, on the southern edge of the state, but I guarantee there are some seriously annoyed Braves fans in the central part of the state. And for the most part, they're not mad at the Braves organization; they're made at Doug Wilder and the Richmond city government, which was rather notoriously dysfunctional even before the R-Braves ballpark saga began about four years ago. This is not to say that those people will stop being Braves fans, but simply that there won't be the spawning of new fans that the long-standing affiliation (plus the team name and uniforms) contributed to.

Beyond all that, the keys to understanding the move are these: first, Gwinnett County was already going to build a ballpark. They were looking at attracting an independent-league team. Granted, an indie team in the backyard isn't competition that will endanger the Atlanta Braves, but it's not particularly supportive of them either. Second, the Braves own the AAA International League franchise, just as they own all their affiliated franchises except the Myrtle Beach Pelicans. They can do what they want, other than moving into a territory assigned to another franchise. The Jacksonville area, for example, belongs to Peter Bragan, the owner of the Jacksonville Suns. The Suns are currently a Dodgers affiliate, but that's a totally separate matter. The Dodgers can take their player development elsewhere and Jacksonville is still off limits to any other MLB organization, until they strike a deal with Bragan. The same situation exists with most minor league towns.

So the Braves were looking at a situation in Richmond with no end in sight, no particular reason to think that city government would ever work out a plan for either a new ballpark or a meaningful renovation. Atlanta was willing to send some cash toward the effort, if the city could settle on a plan. Then they had the prospect of a wildcat minor league setting up shop in their backyard, in a ballpark that the Gwinnett County supervisors were willing to throw a pile of money at.

What would you have done?

No, from a practical and monetary standpoint, a move to Gwinnett County seems to make sense.

It's just that I find it humorous that a county which most people outside the state of Georgia were not aware of, and one that does not contain what most would consider a notable city (sorry Lawrenceville, but you ain't exactly Paris), gets to call itself a home for AAA baseball, the closest rung to the majors and a level traditionally dominated by mid-sized cities. I don't know--I guess it's the part of me that seems to favor actual cities as the home of a professional sports team as opposed to a vague suburban region. It's the same reason I found Northern Virginia or Northern New Jersey as potential major league "cities" odd, even though the market there is substantial enough.

But hey, Gwinnett County put up the money for the team, the Braves wanted it that way, so power to them, I guess.

[Pere]

On a related note, the Braves are putting their AAA team where? Gwinnith County? Has anyone even heard of Gwinnith County outside the Central Georgia region? Pardon the ignorance, but is there even a city of distinction in Gwinnith? Obviously, the Braves want a minor league team nearby Atlanta, but come on--at least give us Columbus or Augusta or Savannah. When a market has a AAA team, it should really be a mid-sized city recognizable to the general populace. Heck, Jacksonville is only about 3-4 hours away from Atlanta and has one of the most beautiful minor league ballparks around which was built to AAA specs. Isn't that a more deserving market for AAA than Gwinnith County?

The Gwinnett (no "h") Braves will play in a new ballpark in Lawrenceville, Georgia, with the new site being no more than 40 miles from Turner Field. Lawrenceville itself has a population around 30,000; the county has around 600,000, and is growing. Basically the whole area is part of the sprawl of metro Atlanta. It will be convenient for Braves fans in the greater Atlanta area who occasionally want to see some baseball at less than major league prices, it will build the fan clubs for up and coming players, and it will be convenient for the big club in terms of arranging rehab assignments or quickly calling up fill-in players. On an everyday basis, it will have modern player facilities, things like indoor batting cages, which every new ballpark provides, but the Diamond lacked.

On the flip side, it represents something of a contraction of Braves territory overall. I live well south and west of Richmond, but I've been there plenty of times. MLB considers the entire state of Virginia to be Orioles and Nationals territory with respect to broadcasting, but there's no question but that the Braves are the most popular major league team in most areas of the state except the DC suburbs. We'll still have the Appalachian League Danville Braves, on the southern edge of the state, but I guarantee there are some seriously annoyed Braves fans in the central part of the state. And for the most part, they're not mad at the Braves organization; they're made at Doug Wilder and the Richmond city government, which was rather notoriously dysfunctional even before the R-Braves ballpark saga began about four years ago. This is not to say that those people will stop being Braves fans, but simply that there won't be the spawning of new fans that the long-standing affiliation (plus the team name and uniforms) contributed to.

Beyond all that, the keys to understanding the move are these: first, Gwinnett County was already going to build a ballpark. They were looking at attracting an independent-league team. Granted, an indie team in the backyard isn't competition that will endanger the Atlanta Braves, but it's not particularly supportive of them either. Second, the Braves own the AAA International League franchise, just as they own all their affiliated franchises except the Myrtle Beach Pelicans. They can do what they want, other than moving into a territory assigned to another franchise. The Jacksonville area, for example, belongs to Peter Bragan, the owner of the Jacksonville Suns. The Suns are currently a Dodgers affiliate, but that's a totally separate matter. The Dodgers can take their player development elsewhere and Jacksonville is still off limits to any other MLB organization, until they strike a deal with Bragan. The same situation exists with most minor league towns.

So the Braves were looking at a situation in Richmond with no end in sight, no particular reason to think that city government would ever work out a plan for either a new ballpark or a meaningful renovation. Atlanta was willing to send some cash toward the effort, if the city could settle on a plan. Then they had the prospect of a wildcat minor league setting up shop in their backyard, in a ballpark that the Gwinnett County supervisors were willing to throw a pile of money at.

What would you have done?

[jl1718]

Do you think if Las Vegas doesn't get a new stadium to replace its aging park Cashman Field, it might move?

I doubt it--I think someone will pony up the money for a new ballpark there, and it's a substantial market. But if Richmond could lose AAA ball for failing to address the ballpark situation, couldn't Vegas lose it as well?

I couldn't tell you about the Vegas situation. The Sounds are in a bad spot. They've been told that they gotta get out of that stadium or lose there AAA tag. A couple of proposals have already died where the sounds where helping foot the bill. I don't think the city will help now. Since the second deal dies at the old thermal plant the city has had to redo the Predators deal at the Sommet Center, and they gotta hefty price tag coming up on some upkeep stuff at L&P field for the Titans. I hope they get it done. They were looking outside Davidson County to try to put a deal together, last I had heard.


edit link: http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs....=2008802280403

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008802280389

[Gary Dunaier]

Gwinnith County? Has anyone even heard of Gwinnith County outside the Central Georgia region?

Speaking as a New Yorker, I can honestly say I have not, until now.

I can also honestly say that I now know how the actress Gwinnith Paltrow got her name.

( "" is right, because her name's actually spelled "Gwyneth." :cap