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Cookie Cutters vs. Bowls

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  • Cookie Cutters vs. Bowls

    Okay so I have read this over and over on this forum. And I dont know that much about stadiums. I do know how to appreciate a nice one from a crappy one though. I was wondering whats the difference between a cookie cutter ballpark and a bowl ballpark. If it's possible post pics of parks demonstrating it. Thanks.

  • #2
    "Cookie cutters" are the combination baseball/football stadiums such as Veterans Stadium (Philadelphia), Three Rivers Stadium (Pittsburgh), Atlanta Fulton County Stadium (Atlanta), Busch Stadium II (St. Louis). They're derisively called "cookie cutters" because they're basically the same shape and could have been created with a cookie cutter.

    "Bowls," on the other hand, generally refer to 'the seating bowl,' or seating area, in the lower level of a ballpark. They can also be a ballpark's name - for instance, Baker Bowl in Philadelphia.
    X
    What's THAT guy doing?
    - one of the YES Network broadcasters, after the camera cut to me doing the thumbs-down after Todd Frazier's home run

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Gary Dunaier View Post
      "Cookie cutters" are the combination baseball/football stadiums such as Veterans Stadium (Philadelphia), Three Rivers Stadium (Pittsburgh), Atlanta Fulton County Stadium (Atlanta), Busch Stadium II (St. Louis). They're derisively called "cookie cutters" because they're basically the same shape and could have been created with a cookie cutter.

      "Bowls," on the other hand, generally refer to 'the seating bowl,' or seating area, in the lower level of a ballpark. They can also be a ballpark's name - for instance, Baker Bowl in Philadelphia.
      would Shea be considered a "cookie cutter"? what about Yankee Stadium? Since they were both able to convert into football stadiums.

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      • #4
        Bowl refers to the shape.

        Cookie Cutter refers to the stadiums built in the 60's and 70's that pretty much looked identical save a few details.

        See Riverfront, Three Rivers, Vetrans, and, to lesser extents, Busch, Fulton County, and even Shea stadiums for examples.

        edit: must be a popular question to answer at 12:20ish on a Saturday!
        Last edited by JohnCropp; 03-08-2008, 09:24 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by JohnCropp View Post
          Bowl refers to the shape.

          Cookie Cutter refers to the stadiums built in the 60's and 70's that pretty much looked identical save a few details.

          See Riverfront, Three Rivers, Vetrans, and, to lesser extents, Busch, Fulton County, and even Shea Stadiums for examples.
          so that answers my question about Shea

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          • #6
            It seems to me that stadiums with overhangs aren't called "bowls," while a "bowl" seating area is actually shaped like a bowl... the seating area moves outward at the same angle.

            So, in this crude drawing, the one on the left would be considered a bowl and the one on the right would not be.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by jimmyjimjimz View Post
              would Shea be considered a "cookie cutter"? what about Yankee Stadium? Since they were both able to convert into football stadiums.
              Yankee Stadium is far from being one of the "cookie cutters." Remember, Fenway Park also hosted football, as did Wrigley Field. The fact that a stadium hosted football doesn't make it one of the cookie cutters. Shea is one of them too - it is the most unique of them all, since it was never enclosed (although there were plans to do so), but it has the same basic design as the others and it was designed with football in mind. My list of the cookie cutters, the completely enclosed ones, mostly with Astroturf, uniformly circular or close to it:

              Veterans Stadium, Philadelphia
              Riverfront Stadium, Cincinnati
              Three Rivers Stadium, Pittsburgh
              Busch Stadium, St Louis
              RFK Stadium, Washington DC
              Fulton County Stadium, Atlanta

              Some other stadiums had the same basic design, but they had(have) more unique elements:

              Skydome, Toronto - saved by the amazing roof
              Astrodome, Houston - same thing 30 years earlier
              Shea Stadium, New York - still allowed views of the outside world

              Parks with football that I do not consider cookie cutters:

              Dolphin Stadium - different shape, designed for football, but you never forget where you are
              Metrodome - a depressing building, but certainly not boring
              Oakland Coliseum - ruined by Mt. Davis, but at least it's different
              Olympic Stadium - great idea, execution didn't go so well
              1997 2003
              Parks I've visited: 30 for 30, plus 5 closed

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              • #8
                Here are the true cookie cutters--

                Riverfront Stadium:



                Three Rivers Stadium:



                Veterans Stadium:



                Busch Stadium II:



                Fulton County Stadium:


                RFK Stadium:

                Last edited by PeteU; 03-08-2008, 04:47 PM.

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                • #9
                  I always thought cookie cutters were like river front and three rivers kind of stadiums that all look like alike with no views, just a lot of seats to make a lot of money. While bowls were stadiums built without an upperdeck so the beams wouldn't get in the way like the rose bowl and L.A. Coliseum. The bowls suck for seating most of the time because instead of building up they were built out, so the last rows of seats have far views.
                  The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time.

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                  • #10
                    Actually, I don't know if "bowl" is always used exclusively with a bowl shaped stadium without an upper deck. Take for example....

                    Orange Bowl



                    Cotton Bowl



                    Citrus Bowl



                    Baker Bowl


                    On the other hand, certain bowls are distinctively bowl shaped:

                    Rose Bowl


                    Yale Bowl


                    My guess is that most early bowls were actually bowl shaped stadia, but as time went on, it came to just be a generic term for a stadium like park or field.

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                    • #11
                      I thought the first three you showed were named bowl becaues college football bowl games were played their. Also I would love to see a yale harvard game, they always look so fun!
                      The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Chevy114 View Post
                        I thought the first three you showed were named bowl becaues college football bowl games were played their. Also I would love to see a yale harvard game, they always look so fun!
                        I think it's a chicken vs. egg thing--the stadium is named after the game which is named after the stadium.....

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                        • #13
                          makes sense.
                          The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by PeteU View Post
                            I think it's a chicken vs. egg thing..
                            Why do people continue to use this ancient expression ? It's obvious the egg came first!
                            www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/05/26/chicken.egg/
                            Alcohol
                            Tobacco
                            Firearms
                            should be a convenience store,
                            not a government agency

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                            • #15
                              Thanks for explaining it to me the best ways possible guys. Hmm this thread has become a little popular I see =]

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