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Pros & Cons - New Yankee Stadium and 70's renovation

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  • GordonGecko
    replied
    Originally posted by David Atkatz View Post
    Old Yankee Stadium is "retrovated" as described above, while the Yankees play in NYS. In three years, say, as described elsewhere on this site, the Yankees will have recouped their $1.3B expenditure in ticket sales alone.

    The Yankees move back into the real Stadium, and NYS is torn down, and the land converted back into public parks.

    As Hamlet once said "'tis a consummation devoutly to be wished."
    3 Years is a bit optimistic, but I think there's a better than 50/50 chance that a new-new-Yankee Stadium will be rebuilt onto the current site (south of 161st) within 40 years from now

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  • David Atkatz
    replied
    How about this...

    Old Yankee Stadium is "retrovated" as described above, while the Yankees play in NYS. In three years, say, as described elsewhere on this site, the Yankees will have recouped their $1.3B expenditure in ticket sales alone.

    The Yankees move back into the real Stadium, and NYS is torn down, and the land converted back into public parks.

    As Hamlet once said "'tis a consummation devoutly to be wished."

    Leave a comment:


  • Swoboda4
    replied
    Originally posted by yankees82 View Post
    Bring BACK the support beams?? I mean, I get nostalgic about the old stadium too (which i've only seen in old pictures and footage) but there's no reason to set us back decades architecturally.

    Sadly, they renovated a classic stadium in the 1970s so drastically that it can hardly be recognized today, but 30 years later they can't un-renovate it. All they can do is build a modern interpretation of it.
    No need for support beams, I agree. Unless they were made from plexiglass! From the field looking in they'd appear opaque, but clear if you were sitting behind them, like a one way mirror (ha ha).

    I disagree a bit about the ability to unrenovate. The way to motivate an engineer/architect is tell them something "can't" be done. The old saying we had in the Marines was "you can't because you won't". It "could" be largely done. But there is no "will" to do it. I don't think you could shorten the upper deck again, but you could definitely install a ton of suites in the middle tier. Hell take away the entire middle tier seating and make it all suites. Extend the roofline out and create a new fieze/roofline. Copper might be too heavy, but a fiberglass/resin replica could be a lightweight alternative. Recase the exterior of the upperdeck extension girders with a replica of the original concrete facing (again, might need fiberglass). That gets you a long way towards the look of the old place, and I don't think I've spent 300 million yet.

    The answer would have been to shut down for two years, play with the Mets in New Shea, and move back into the restored stadium. See, that's the importance of proper PR. The Yankees' project should have been presented as a "restoration" of the original stadium. (1.3 buh-buh-buh-billion dollars goes a long way) The architectural/landmarks preservation atmosphere is much more favorable today than it was in 1970. Look at the Grand Central project. The shame is that it seems too late to actually save the stadium as the primary home of the Yankees (and I'm a Met fan), but remember that until it is actually torn down, it is never too late to preserve it. A campaign should be launched to preserve it, and convert it into a museum, and use the field for college/HS/charity games. How much do you think people would spend to rent out the place for events? How about $20000/an hour to take BP and picnic in the real YS? Shea is rented out for events like this all the time, and the going rate starts at $50000 for three hours of BP and a picnic. And that's just Shea. A restored YS? You could name your price and people would pay it. (I'm starting to sound like James Earl Jones in Field of Dreams)

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  • six4three
    replied
    A good point.

    There are things I like about the new site, though. Always hated having the parking garage twenty feet from the stadium. The new open plan suits me just fine.

    Like your idea, though. That's essentially what Freddy Ferrer proposed when he ran for mayor back in 1997.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Dunaier
    replied
    Originally posted by Chevy114 View Post
    Yankee stadium was never built to capture time, it was built to be the best (almost futurisitic) for its time. They did the same thing with the renovations, and I feel they will end up doign the same with the new stadium.
    How true.

    If it were up to me I'd have totally demolished the current (1923-2008) facility, played at Shea/Citi for a couple of years, and built a totally modern facility on the site. The only "preservation" would be the footprint of the field, but everything else would be fair game. Since, in real life, the Yankees are using part of the parkland across Ruppert Place for parking, I'd have felt free to encroach onto that area, as well as the present parking garage site across from the first base side, to expand the stadium if need be... the only "sacred" boundaries being River Avenue and 161st Street.

    Remember, Cols. Ruppert and Huston weren't looking to restore the glory of Hilltop Park when they built Yankee Stadium, they were looking to build the best facility early 1920s technology would allow.

    Leave a comment:


  • YankeeFanBx
    replied
    I went to my first Yankee game at the stadium in 1965 and was in awe of this huge lovely baseball field! But you could not help but notice that this once beautiful gem was in bad shape and need some repairs.... soon!
    The job that was done during the renovation of '73, right or wrong , was much needed or I'm sure they would have torn the stadium down with not much opposition, the truth was it was neglected as much as the Bronx it self was neglected.
    I wish the new Yankee Stadium could have been built on the exact spot it is now , but that's not to be, that's pretty sad.
    I won't miss the renovated park much, I will miss the memories and history that was made there.
    Everything changes, for better or worse, let's all hope the New Yankee Stadium gives us new moments to remember and 26 more WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS!
    Last edited by YankeeFanBx; 04-28-2008, 12:32 PM. Reason: please delete this post

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  • yankees82
    replied
    Originally posted by locke40 View Post
    The renovation that should be taking place right now should consist of bringing back the support beams in the lower and upper grandstands, the roof with a real copper frieze, the return of the original outfield dimensions, and repainting the seats/interior stadium a turquoise color.
    Bring BACK the support beams?? I mean, I get nostalgic about the old stadium too (which i've only seen in old pictures and footage) but there's no reason to set us back decades architecturally.

    Sadly, they renovated a classic stadium in the 1970s so drastically that it can hardly be recognized today, but 30 years later they can't un-renovate it. All they can do is build a modern interpretation of it.

    Leave a comment:


  • MJP
    replied
    Originally posted by SparkyL View Post
    A lot of people want to return the Monuments to the field . . . but then we fans would no longer get to see them close up . . . thoughts on that??
    I'd keep monument park. As a history buff, I think a return of the original three monuments would be a sight to behold. The Mt. Rushmore of baseball. I know it would never happen. Hey, I live in Montreal. As great as the Bell Centre is, it still isn't the Forum.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chevy114
    replied
    Originally posted by MarcianoNY View Post
    I think this is the fundamental difference. Some people would like Yankee Stadium to be a diorama of life in the 1940s or whatever. Hoping that they will re-install the support beams is just ludicrous. In my opinion, Yankee Stadium was never about the quirks. It was, at its time, the most modern, utterly sophisticated stadium; the first triple-tiered park; the first multipurpose facility, etc. Keeping the focus of the experience on the game has always been central to the mission of both the Stadium AND the Yankees. If they could have designed it without support beams in the 20s, I'm sure they would've. Death valley was not intended to make baseball games more exciting, it was intended to fit a regulation track and football field. Also, to make a seemingly obvious point, ballpark design in the early part of this century was less influenced by the designers' "knowing what they were doing," and much more influenced by limitations in inner-city real estate. There's no way anybody in their right mind would've designed the green monster if Fenway had been built with limitless space.
    Great point! Yankee stadium was never built to capture time, it was built to be the best (almost futurisitic) for its time. They did the same thing with the renovations, and I feel they will end up doign the same with the new stadium. Yankee stadium should always stand for the best baseball has to offer since thats all it has ever been in the past!

    Leave a comment:


  • MarcianoNY
    replied
    Originally posted by locke40 View Post
    But aren't those quirks about ballparks the reason they are so great? I have full confidence in the original architects that they knew what they were doing, and chose to have the upper grandstand extremely close and intimidating, regardless of the obstructive support beams. Also, they chose to put a roof on the stadium knowing that the sun during day games is absolutely brutal, and knew full well that support beams would have to be used again in the upper grandstand area.

    No matter what you think about the renovation (I personally think it was a terrible job, the support beams should NEVER have been removed), Yankee Stadium is still a time warp to another era of baseball. The reasons that I keep hearing (on this forum and everywhere else) for the love of Yankee Stadium has nothing to do with what they did during renovations, but for the aspects of the original stadium that still remain. The renovation that should be taking place right now should consist of bringing back the support beams in the lower and upper grandstands, the roof with a real copper frieze, the return of the original outfield dimensions, and repainting the seats/interior stadium a turquoise color.
    I think this is the fundamental difference. Some people would like Yankee Stadium to be a diorama of life in the 1940s or whatever. Hoping that they will re-install the support beams is just ludicrous. In my opinion, Yankee Stadium was never about the quirks. It was, at its time, the most modern, utterly sophisticated stadium; the first triple-tiered park; the first multipurpose facility, etc. Keeping the focus of the experience on the game has always been central to the mission of both the Stadium AND the Yankees. If they could have designed it without support beams in the 20s, I'm sure they would've. Death valley was not intended to make baseball games more exciting, it was intended to fit a regulation track and football field. Also, to make a seemingly obvious point, ballpark design in the early part of this century was less influenced by the designers' "knowing what they were doing," and much more influenced by limitations in inner-city real estate. There's no way anybody in their right mind would've designed the green monster if Fenway had been built with limitless space.

    Leave a comment:


  • locke40
    replied
    Originally posted by curb my enthusiasm View Post
    Think of all the people who missed the Jeffrey Maier incident, and Jeter winning game 4 of the 2001 World Series. Thousands of people who paid good money sitting in the right field upper deck completely missed those!
    The Jeffrey Maier incident was literally 1/2 a second from beginning to end. Baseball is not like a movie where if you miss part of it, the entire thing is ruined. I bet those people in the upper deck that couldn't see the homerun were even MORE excited when they found out it was called a homerun (probably 2 seconds after those who actually saw it and began cheering) because they reacted to the 50,000+ fans going crazy.

    I am going to miss the upper deck homerun after this year. They are so amazing.

    Leave a comment:


  • MarcianoNY
    replied
    Good point. With all the money they spend on groundskeeping, as well as increased security, there's no way we're ever going back to an era when the fans could just walk across the field after the game. A lot of people would miss out on monument park and it would become just a nice retro gimmick like all the new parks instead of what it is, a place where fans can learn about and pay tribute to the greats before a game.

    Leave a comment:


  • SparkyL
    replied
    Originally posted by GordonGecko View Post
    Good idea moving this thread here, let's keep the other board for actual construction progress discussions and pictures. What started some of this was when I posted that the renovated stadium isn't the same place as the pre-renovated stadium.

    People were complaining that the 2009 stadium is not going to be the same, that the history of the old place is going to be lost, etc... So my whole reason for bringing up the discussion is that we've ALREADY erased the real Yankee stadium in the renovation, and that moving it now across the street is completely isignificant to the history since Yankee Stadium was already gutted in the 70's.

    If people wanted to complain about losing the original Yankee Stadium they should have done it 3 decades ago
    Agreed but . . . at the beginning of the new Stadium "sales job" the Yankees stated very clearly that they were going to recreate the 1923 Stadium, with modern amenities. To me that meant you start with the Osborn design, fix design flaws (narrow concourses and sight lines) and then add the ammenities. What they wound up doing was starting with an HOK design and adding some YS elements to it (and even then with "modern interpretation").

    So what we thought we were getting and what we are getting are different. At least in my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • locke40
    replied
    But aren't those quirks about ballparks the reason they are so great? I have full confidence in the original architects that they knew what they were doing, and chose to have the upper grandstand extremely close and intimidating, regardless of the obstructive support beams. Also, they chose to put a roof on the stadium knowing that the sun during day games is absolutely brutal, and knew full well that support beams would have to be used again in the upper grandstand area.

    No matter what you think about the renovation (I personally think it was a terrible job, the support beams should NEVER have been removed), Yankee Stadium is still a time warp to another era of baseball. The reasons that I keep hearing (on this forum and everywhere else) for the love of Yankee Stadium has nothing to do with what they did during renovations, but for the aspects of the original stadium that still remain. The renovation that should be taking place right now should consist of bringing back the support beams in the lower and upper grandstands, the roof with a real copper frieze, the return of the original outfield dimensions, and repainting the seats/interior stadium a turquoise color.

    Leave a comment:


  • SparkyL
    replied
    Originally posted by MJP View Post
    I would have preferred for Yankee Stadium to have been renovated.

    That said, the exterior of the new park is outstanding. Further, the old stadium was claustrofobic and the concourses were very narrow. The stadium food venors were also limited as were the washrooms.

    My only problem with the new stadium is the Upperdeck. The yankees should have told HOK to f-off and replicate the original upperdeck. I also would have loved a return of death valley, with the orginal three monuments, flag and plaques on the wall.
    A lot of people want to return the Monuments to the field . . . but then we fans would no longer get to see them close up . . . thoughts on that??

    Leave a comment:

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