Yankee Stadium [I] Demolition

[David Atkatz]

I will not argue the safety issues of RYS, but it's safe to assume that if it was to be pressed into another 50 years of service, the structure's integrity would be maintained.

Look, OYS/RYS is being razed because:
1. There is sufficient ROI on NYS to make it worth while. OYS/RYS makes money, but there is more money to be made with NYS.
2. There is not a revenue generating use for OYS/RYS now that you have NYS.

If the city didn't give the Yankees the park across the street, they could have moved (out of city) and they'd still tear down OYS/RYS.

So what you're saying is precisely what's been said before.

The Yankees abandoned a profit-making structure (and all the history attached to it) simply to make even more money.

BTW, for all his bluster, Steinbrenner would have never left NYC. If the City Council would have had the balls (and/or the integrity) to have vetoed NYS, we'd be getting underway with a renovation right about now.

[metsforever7515]

So what you're saying is precisely what's been said before.

The Yankees abandoned a profit-making structure (and all the history attached to it) simply to make even more money.

BTW, for all his bluster, Steinbrenner would have never left NYC. If the City Council would have had the balls (and/or the integrity) to have vetoed NYS, we'd be getting underway with a renovation right about now.

That would have been interesting to see if they would do a complete overhaul like in the 70's or suddle changes.

[philliesfiend55]

The Yankees Have Always Been Master Propagandists

[QUOTE=metsforever7515;1524824][QUOTE=philliesfiend55;1524822]

Jeter will be the last true Yankee IMO..... Being a Yankee is different from being a good ball player for the Yankees. .... Jeter carries himself well, almost like a Dimaggio..... A-rod will never be a Yankee as long as he tries to be..... Texiera is an example, he will never be a Yankee, he can be a good ballplayer for the Yankees but will never be a Yankee..... Im so happy I was able to watch Jeter from when he came up to present, no one carries them selves and is respected like Jeter...... He also played most of his career in the real Yankee Stadium, no other Yankee will be able to say they played in the same stadium as the greats.

No, I completely understand what he's saying and I completely agree. Even as a Met fan.

How is being a good ballplayer for the Yankees different from being a Yankee or a "True Yankee". Do not Yankees whose careers are disappointing at least make some contributions and help to win some games, even if they are underperformers or generally unpopular with Yankee fans. Does a "True Yankee" always come through in the clutch? If Jeter is a "True Yankee" then the answer is definitely NO!
I think this guy is living at least some of the time in a Yankee Fantasy World, if he's categorizing players and determining to what degree they have earned the title of a "True Yankee".

Part of the problem comes from how the Yankees management and publicity/public relations staffers have tried to portray the team throughout the decades. They are savvy propagandists and they've tried to perpetuate the myth that being a Yankee is better than being a member of any other major league team. That's a myth whose time has come and gone. Let's kill it once and for all!
I'm sorry to disillusion them (Die-Hard Yankee Fans) but prior to 1961, the Yankees were just 1 of 16 major league teams. Today they are just 1 of 30, Nothing less and Definitely Nothing More!

-philliesfiend55-

[metsforever7515]

This Phillies guys seems to be the only one who doesn't understand.

[SparkyL]

Can we please end the "true Yankee" posts? The discussion does not belong here.

[yankees650B]

You can't be serious. The outside (facade) of RYS is the original facade of OYS.

It doesn't just "look like it."

It is it.

why not, the outer facade of the new stadium barely looks the same while the rys's exterior is the same as the pre renovated stadium. the new stadium looks unfinished and it always will both in the inside and out.

[toefer]

Trost wasn't referring to Gate 4, and neither were you. Read your own post.

Oh, you're right, because a) you read my mind, and b) you saw what I saw.

In the video I was watching Trost was talking about Yankee stadium, as they showed how the stadium would look as you approach it from Gate 4. Maybe Trost was referring to the entire outside of the stadium, but I can't tell since I don't read minds as well as you, but at least I know what I was referring to.

How about you go read my post again and realize you were wrong (if the reading comprehension is the trouble, the post with the 3 pictures should be fine. Notice they're all of Gate 4, not the outside of the stadium in general).

[History Of Baseball Fan]

I am amazed David. The outside facade of Yankee Stadium goes back to 1923.. Why would they argue if the New Stadiums facade looks more like the 1923 facade then the "renovated" facade when the renovated Yankee Stadium facade IS the 1923 original?

I think people honestly think that the entire Stadium was torn down.
Renovated Yankee Stadium is 70-80 percent original. Right down to the CONCRETE (not limestone as Trost lied about) facade.

So what exactly was still original after the renovation ? From looking at some of the pictures, it looks like it was stripped down to its skeleton lol. I thought the exterior looked like the old pictures, but I just didn't think it was all original... so what did they do to the exterior other than changing the entrance ?

[toefer]

Okay, so call me crazy, but I have an idea that may give the fans a little bit of a way to say goodbye while getting to keep some of the ballpark at the same time. I say that fans start signing a section of wall at RYS, and when the stadium is demoed, the section with the signatures is saved, either to go to NYS, stay in Ruppert plaza, or get sent up to Cooperstown. This way the FANS get to have a stake in the old place, weather they can afford it or not. What do you guys think? I might just start signing it myself and hope that it catches on, get a viral movement going. so any thoughts?

Well, I won't call you crazy, but I don't agree with the idea. Something about signing names on YS seems wrong to me. I also don't really have any interest in seeing a chunk of the stadium in the Yankees Museum or Cooperstown with a bunch of scribbling all over it. I'd rather just see a chunk of the stadium, if anything.

And let's not forget that Trost & Co. might be planning on selling chunks of the outside of the stadium, so they might have security out there making sure nobody defaces it.

[bandit12]

The NYC Landmarks Law was a result of the destruction of Old Penn. This law is the reason Grand Central still stands.

Penn Station got torn down because it's owners could tear it down.

Doesn't sound like the NYC Landmarks Law has much teeth to it. Otherwise...this thread wouldn't exist.

[GordonGecko]

Doesn't sound like the NYC Landmarks Law has much teeth to it. Otherwise...this thread wouldn't exist.

Has the biggest teeth in the land. But the building has to be designated a landmark first. After the 70's renovation (destruction) IMO it didn't really qualify anymore as a landmark, sorry to say

[SparkyL]

So what exactly was still original after the renovation ? From looking at some of the pictures, it looks like it was stripped down to its skeleton lol. I thought the exterior looked like the old pictures, but I just didn't think it was all original... so what did they do to the exterior other than changing the entrance ?

There is a whole thread that discusses the renovation - go thru that, it explains it all.

[SparkyL]

Has the biggest teeth in the land. But the building has to be designated a landmark first. After the 70's renovation (destruction) IMO it didn't really qualify anymore as a landmark, sorry to say

I think the issue with the NYC landmarking decisions (especially YS) is that too much emphsis is put on the architectural and not enough on the historic.

If you look at the US Capitol just before the Civil War you wouldn't recognize it. The current building looks very different the original (but like OYS vs RYS, notice how you can see where things used to be ), yet no one debates its significance.

[David Atkatz]

Oh, you're right, because a) you read my mind, and b) you saw what I saw.

In the video I was watching Trost was talking about Yankee stadium, as they showed how the stadium would look as you approach it from Gate 4. Maybe Trost was referring to the entire outside of the stadium, but I can't tell since I don't read minds as well as you, but at least I know what I was referring to.

How about you go read my post again and realize you were wrong (if the reading comprehension is the trouble, the post with the 3 pictures should be fine. Notice they're all of Gate 4, not the outside of the stadium in general).

I don't have to read minds. All I have to do is read.

Here's what you wrote:

"But for the most part yes, I think NYS looks more like OYS on the outside than RYS does, even if neither really looks a whole lot like it."

Care to explain to me how I'm misinterpreting your words "NYS looks more like OYS on the outside than RYS does"?

Seems pretty unambiguous to me.

[soup]

In a nutshell, old Penn Station became a victim of modernization.

Passenger rail traffic fell off dramatically for railroads after WW2. People took planes / jets for long distances. People drove cars for short distances. The Pennsylvania RR was losing money hand over fist.

In the mid-50's, the railroad sold an option for the air-rights between 7th and 8th avenue. It was originally going to be one big office complex. Eventually, when that fell through, the Garden came a calling, looking for a new home.

In return for the air-rights, the Pennsylvania RR got a 25% stake in MSG, and a free, smaller, air-conditioned modern station. They poured a concrete slab at street level, and tore everything down above the slab, then put the office tower and the Garden up. They finally tore down the perimeter walls of Old Penn in 1966 or 67. MSG opened in 1968.

You really can't blame the RR. It was trying to save itself, but it would need much more saving. It merged with the NY Central RR soon after, but to no avail. The new Penn-Central went bankrupt a few years later.

You have to remember, that nobody but a few wanted to save Penn Station in 1962. The Pennsy had to pay property tax on the station-and had to maintain it. It was filthy. The roof leaked. It was full of vending machines and advertisements. It looked like a tomb / mausoleum towards the end of its life. The RR could not compete with airlines because government subsidized roads and airports -- RR's had a much greater overhead. The RR had to pay property tax not only on the stations, but on all their rights of way. The bus companies had municipal bus stations to use, and made use of public roads.

Towards the end, it was better for the RR to divest itself of the station than to maintain it. The Station was private property. No public entity could tell the RR what to do with its station. They wanted the money that the 'renovation' would bring, along with the income from MSG Complex. The new station also promised lower maintenance costs.

1962 was a good time for the RR to get rid of Penn Station. People wanted new. They wanted cars, they wanted to travel by jet. They didn't want an old, soot covered building. Not until it was gone, and they saw its replacement, did they realize what they had lost. The NYC Landmarks Law was a result of the destruction of Old Penn. This law is the reason Grand Central still stands.

Penn Station got torn down because it's owners could tear it down.

I am pretty well aware of the history of railroads and their (and the stations that served them) demise. I wasn't really asking for an explanation - which you did a great job of giving by the way - as I was just marveling at the disaster of wasted architecture that the removal of Penn Station was.

Sometimes facts that legitimize an act are easy to recount and make clear, but they just don't seem to make sense. Such is, to me, the similarity of the two demolitions of Penn Station and Yankee Stadium. Both structures met an end because they had reached modern day obsolescence, but are (and will be) lamented having been lost because of their historic and sentimental value.