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  • Originally posted by mandrake View Post
    While we wait for some more YS demo pictures, just a couple of quick comments to your post. I see you took 'statistics', then you probably heard of Harry S Truman's quote: "there are 3 types of lies; lies, damn lies, and statistics".

    Let's say your attendance numbers are right. That just confirms 59% of tickets were to NL games.

    You left out a few variables that skew your stats:

    1) The capacity at OYS was much higher than either the Polo Grounds (56,000) or Ebbets (32,000). When teams like St Louis came calling, huge crowds at the NL parks were cut off. The Giants once drew 63,000 in 1936 vs the Cards. The best Brooklyn could do was squeeze 41,000 in. Big games at OYS could squeeze in maybe 80,000.

    2) The Yankee games almost never competed directly with the Dodgers or Giants. When the Yanks were home, both NY NL teams were on the road. Conversely, when the NL teams were home, the Yanks were on the road and the NL teams went head to head. Check out pictures of the OYS scoreboard.

    3) with the advent of TV, the Brooklyn Dodgers televised many more games than the Yankees and Giants did. The Yanks and Jints both shared Ch 11; Brooklyn had Ch 9 all to themselves. The novelty of TV kept people in their living rooms 1948-1957.

    4)Brooklyn was the most profitable franchise in sports despite having such a small park.:flow:

    5) winning had a lot to do with drawing as evidenced by the 625,000 1925 season attendance at OYS....about a 50% drop from the Polo Grounds 1921 NYY attendance. The NYY franchise did not break that Polo Grounds record until 1946 at YS.


    So we agree that nearly 60% of MLB fans rooted for the NL during the Yankees glory days?

    (And let's not delve into the ethnicity of the fan base....the Dodgers , then the Giants, aggressively tried to be inclusive in their ballparks. Let's not go into what NYY sent their ticket holders as part of their questionaire in the late 1940's....)


    NOW>>>back to the demo please !!!
    The attendance figures I gave are accurate. While you made a good point about the capacity differences between YS and Ebbets (no one is crying for the Giants in the Polo Grounds with a capacity of 56,000, one of the largest ballparks of its day), you're leaving out that Ebbets was in the middle of a crowded borough, and the Polo Grounds was in upper Manhattan. Before 1946, all Yankee games were played during the day---in the Bronx. Yes, it was just across the river from the Polo Grounds, but it was in the relatively underpopulated Bronx, and many people in Manhattan would have to transfer to the "nickel pullman" to get from upper Manhattan to Yankee Stadium.

    In addition, the first night game occurred in Ebbets Field on June 15, 1938. Thats 8 years earlier than the first night game in Yankee Stadium (May 28, 1946), giving the Dodgers a huge non-weekend attendance advantage for 8 years. The first night game in the Polo Grounds was on May 24, 1940, giving the Giants a 6-year advantage. Once the Yankees installed lights, their share of New York baseball attendance rose to 44% (1946-1957):

    Yankees 44%
    Dodgers 31%
    Giants 25%

    Yes, it was the Yankees fault for not installing lights sooner, and thereby playing at a disadvantage attendance-wise. But by the same token, it was the Dodgers fault for building a ballpark that would only seat 32,000.

    Another thing, when we're talking about fan attention, or on which team the city was focusing in a given year. The Dodgers and Giants played in 17 World Series between 1920 and 1957. They faced the Yankees in 13 of those WS, going 3-10, thereby splitting NYC fan interest and usually losing to the Yankees. Think about that. In 38 seasons, the Dodgers and Giants had a grand total of 4 WS appearances combined (going 2-2) in which they did not compete with the Yankees for fan attention. The Yankees had 10 seasons in which they faced a non-New York opponent during those years (going 7-3), in which they were the sole focus of October baseball in NYC. In addition, as soon as the two NL teams left after 1957, the Yankees reeled off 6 pennants in 7 years.

    By the way, I've heard that the NL teams were always in NYC at the same time, competing with each other for fan (or playing against each other), but that's not what I've seen on retrosheet. Here are two examples (in just the third date I checked), with Brooklyn on the road and the Giants at home:

    http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1927/05301927.htm
    http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1927/Y_1927.htm

    Here, all three NYC teams are playing in town at the same time (Dodgers host Giants, Yankees at YS):

    http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1927/05291927.htm

    That's just 3 consecutive days I looked at at random in 1927. So that argument seems to be unsustantiated.

    Another example: Yankees at home, Dodgers also at home, 1956:

    http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1956/08161956.htm

    Lastly, if New York was an "NL town", then why did it lose its two NL teams? You would think someone would have understood how important it was to accomodate the ownership of at least one of the NL teams, rather lose both franchises. In the last 3 years of 3-team NYC baseball (1955-57), the Yankees had 45.4% of NYC attendance, the Dodgers 33.2%, and the Giants slumped badly to 21.4%. Clearly, enough interest in NL baseball remained to make a go of a franchise in NYC, but perhaps the fact that there were two NL teams vying for fans doomed the Giants and Dodgers in NYC, especially while the untapped market of California beckoned. I often wonder what would have happened if the Giants had left after, say, 1955, and the Dodgers had stuck it out for a few years as NYC's only NL team. Maybe Moses and mayor Wagner would have more eager to give O'Malley the ability to build the stadium he wanted in Brooklyn (owned by O'Malley), rather than the last-minute offer of a city-owned ballpark on the World's Fair Grounds in Queens.
    Last edited by SultanOfWhat; 03-11-2010, 01:27 PM.
    sigpic

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    • Originally posted by 410 FT View Post
      Gary,that approx 4' NY on the wall I believe is the entrance to the executive offices.
      The Yankees' offices were on the Loge level and therefore are no longer extant. In my night shots Loge is the lower of the two levels that's lit (the one above it being the original pre-renovation upper deck concourse). On the Tier level there were a couple of souvenir stands that were backed against the outer wall instead of the inner wall, one on each side of the plate, and this has to have been one of them.
      X
      What's THAT guy doing?
      - one of the YES Network broadcasters, after the camera cut to me doing the thumbs-down after Todd Frazier's home run

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Gary Dunaier View Post
        The Yankees' offices were on the Loge level and therefore are no longer extant. In my night shots Loge is the lower of the two levels that's lit (the one above it being the original pre-renovation upper deck concourse). On the Tier level there were a couple of souvenir stands that were backed against the outer wall instead of the inner wall, one on each side of the plate, and this has to have been one of them.


        Any new pictures, Gary?
        "We're relying on you to take the memories from this stadium, and add them to the new memories we make at the new Yankee Stadium, and continue to pass them on from generation to generation." Derek Jeter: September 21, 2008.

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        • Gary,the only reason I say that because I had to, on two occasions ,go into the Yankee offices and as soon as I got out of the elevator I believe I saw the NY to my right near the main reception desk. Not absolute.

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          • A couple I took Tuesday Morning...Will post more tomorrow.
            Attached Files

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            • Originally posted by Judge Smails View Post
              A couple I took Tuesday Morning...Will post more tomorrow.
              looks like an add for that show life after people

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              • Originally posted by Judge Smails View Post
                A couple I took Tuesday Morning...Will post more tomorrow.



                Wow! Great shots, Judge...
                "We're relying on you to take the memories from this stadium, and add them to the new memories we make at the new Yankee Stadium, and continue to pass them on from generation to generation." Derek Jeter: September 21, 2008.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by tdinan View Post
                  According to the NY Times, Gate 2 is doomed.

                  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/sp...11stadium.html
                  Wanna save Gate 2? Lets's get the "Hollywooders" out there and get some real press and exposure. Us "9 to 5ers" showing up at Mickey Mouse hearings will do little to no good. Let:
                  1. "Mr Yankee" Billy (I carry Mickey Mantle's baseball card in my wallet) Crystal
                  2. Chaz "Bronx Tale"
                  3. Jack Nicolson
                  4. Penny (Laverne) Marshall
                  5. Paul Simon
                  6. LeBron (will he be a Knick) "King" James
                  get into the mix to save the Gate.
                  There is nothing like publicity and exposure from people with big money to make things happen. Heck, maybe even Rudy can help.

                  What do youze guyz think?

                  Comment


                  • Tremendous shots, Judge!

                    Funny, but when looking at the second photo you posted, the original upper deck risers (rows 1-13) APPEAR to be in BETTER condition than the (newer) ones located above (Rows 14 on up) that were installed during the 1973-75 renovation!
                    ------------------------------------------
                    www.CollectibleStadiumSeats.com
                    www.YankeeStadiumSeats.com
                    www.SheaStadiumSeats.com

                    ------------------------------------------

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                    • Originally posted by Maas_Pasqua_Pags View Post
                      Wanna save Gate 2? Lets's get the "Hollywooders" out there and get some real press and exposure. Us "9 to 5ers" showing up at Mickey Mouse hearings will do little to no good. Let:
                      1. "Mr Yankee" Billy (I carry Mickey Mantle's baseball card in my wallet) Crystal
                      2. Chaz "Bronx Tale"
                      3. Jack Nicolson
                      4. Penny (Laverne) Marshall
                      5. Paul Simon
                      6. LeBron (will he be a Knick) "King" James
                      get into the mix to save the Gate.
                      There is nothing like publicity and exposure from people with big money to make things happen. Heck, maybe even Rudy can help.

                      What do youze guyz think?
                      That would be a great idea, however no one wants to risk being black listed by the New York Yankees.
                      Yankee Stadium 1923-2008

                      Avid fan of the greatest Stadium ever built! Both in beauty and aesthetics throughout its long Glorious history.

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                      • I thought that was Bob Costas who said he always carries a 1958 Mantle All-Star card in his wallet. Anyway, good idea Maas.

                        Judge - those pictures are just superb, great stuff.
                        I AM SO THANKFUL FOR BEING BORN IN NEW YORK AND FOR BEING A FAN OF ALL NEW YORK SPORTS TEAMS

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                        • CNN has a video of one of the pieces coming down
                          http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-418569?hpt=T2
                          I'd like to thank the good Lord for making me a Yankee - Joe Dimaggio

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                          • Our very own Bobby Jackson and yours truly featured on Yahoo Sports....

                            http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big...urn=mlb,227519
                            www.demolitionofyankeestadium.com

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                            • On July 29, 1994 I made my only visit ever to Three Rivers Stadium. The next day, I walked over from my hotel to the site of Forbes Field, where I had heard the outfield wall was still in place. These are some of the pictures I took. I was fascinated by the sight of so many old Pirate fans who were there as if they'd made a pilgrimmage.

                              The above was written by epaddon on 12-27-09 #217 of the Forbes Field thread. If Forbes Field would get so many fans making this pilgrimage, imagine how many people would do so for Yankee Stadium's Gate 2 monument!

                              -Mike Wagner

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mike Wagner View Post
                                On July 29, 1994 I made my only visit ever to Three Rivers Stadium. The next day, I walked over from my hotel to the site of Forbes Field, where I had heard the outfield wall was still in place. These are some of the pictures I took. I was fascinated by the sight of so many old Pirate fans who were there as if they'd made a pilgrimmage.

                                The above was written by epaddon on 12-27-09 #217 of the Forbes Field thread. If Forbes Field would get so many fans making this pilgrimage, imagine how many people would do so for Yankee Stadium's Gate 2 monument!

                                -Mike Wagner
                                I read somewhere that a group of fans every year gather at that wall and listen to a radio broadcast of game 7 of the '60 world series....
                                www.demolitionofyankeestadium.com

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