Yankee Stadium [I] Demolition

[giantsean]

But compared to RYS's 1970's, "in-your-face," bulky ugliness, NYS's upper deck is a Jessica Alba 10.

That's where I disagree... I never really minded the stringers given that's all I've ever known (to the time I ever really knew the history) and like I've said elsewhere, the grit of the 70's is to me part of the House's mystique - at least in that stage if it's and my life. I find NYS's whole upper area busy and inconsistent. Lower and more subdued stringers are offset by all those grates and panels. Again, though, the limestone is fantastic.

What some are forgetting is that NYS is supposed to pay homage to both OYS and RYS, without being a carbon copy. I think that in this respect, NYS was an overwhelming success. I love how NYS incorporates the features most identified with OYS and destroyed during the 1970's, even if the frieze isn't as ornamental.

Absolutely agree... it's meant to evoke both of the "looks" of the old place and to expect a copy would be unfair to it. I already wrote volumes on what I love and hate and overall just wish they had gone a bit farther. My problem w/ HOK's design - interior mind you - is that it looks to me more like any modern stadium with some Yankee parts tacked on. I think if you put a frieze on US Cellular park and plopped it onto River Ave you'd get the same effect w/ your blindfolded fans (or more close, as I like Chicago's new UD better than NYS'). Again, just talking interior.

I'm not being facetious when I say that I'm shocked that the 4-5 or 6 vocal opponents in this thread aren't more outraged by what they did to OYS. I think that the problem is that most of us, including myself, are too young to have ever stepped foot in OYS. So RYS is the stadium we came to know and love. But that shouldn't be an excuse. We weren't born when the Mona Lisa was painted, but 100% of us would be outraged if she were tweaked, and tweaked badly. Would we say that 70% of her is still original? Given the astute posters in this forum, including many baseball historians, I'm shocked that RYS gets such a free pass.

I think a lot of the vitriol comes not only from age, but the fact that it's been done for 30 years now... not much anyone can do (I for example, was four when it closed). But more than that, it's hard to dispute that it's the same PLACE that's been standing since 1923. Of course the city not saving a bit of the place and that overall experience didn't help.

[richiek]

The other fascinating thing about NYS is that it is unmistakably the home of the New York Yankees. I'm not talking about signage, pictures or banners. The look and feel of NYS is undeniably Yankees and Yankee Stadium. I've said before that you can blindfold somebody, take them to their seat, remove their blindfold, tell them not to look up (at the frieze) and they'll know exactly which team plays there. NYS captured all of this beautifully. Try blindfolding someone upon entering Citi Field and do this. Once removed, the reaction would probably be, "Ugh...the San Fransisco Giants? The Portland Beavers? The Padres? The Iowa Cubs? The Twins? "

Um...



C'mon Rob. You complain about others taking cheap shots at NYS and yet you compare Citi Field to a minor league park?

[Rob R]

Um...



C'mon Rob. You complain about others taking cheap shots at NYS and yet you compare Citi Field to a minor league park?

My apologies. It truly wasn't meant as a cheap shot, but in retrospect I should have worded it better. I meant that Citi was built in a retro style that is similar to other retro parks and that NYS is more distinguishable and it more identifiable with the team that plays there. Even minor league parks these days are going for that Camden-style retro look.

I'll say it here in a Yankee thread to show my sincerity: Citi IS one of the better retros, hideous signs and all (which can be corrected), and probably one of my top 5 ballparks, closer to the top. Very nice photo, btw.

[Rob R]

It doesn't get a "pass" - it gets a very careful consideration and an educated judgment. I'm jut old enough to have been to OYS a few times as a kid to see Stottlemyre pitch, and yes is was a great stadium. But here's the thing you miss in slagging the renovated Yankee Stadium, Rob - it too was a fantastic stadium and despute a few warts, was the same place as the old stadium in basic lines, footprint, shape of field, position, and quite frankly, Yankee mystique. Some fantastic, historic ball was played at the place you call "a fake, defaced impostor."

See, some of us totally disagree with that assessment. Yes, parts of that renovation were hideous (the pods) but other parts very successful (extending the upper deck, albeit without the frieze). The old place rocked! (And this from a Mets fan who actually liked Shea for its own history and interior lines). So it's not that we're letting the stadium off with a "pass" - it's that we reject the basic premise: that Yankee Stadium was a hideous fake. It was no such thing. It was still a jewel of all of baseball.

The Yankees should never have condoned its destruction and the defacement of their own freaking history. And the city should never have agreed to take it down. A horrible preservation crime all around. (Which has nothing to do with assessments of the new building, which is perfectly fine - i like the interior while really disliking the misguided exterior design).

I understand what you're saying and agree that from an historical viewpoint, the way this demolition/destruction of RYS was handled is appalling (on many levels), showing a total lack of respect for a landmark. But, that doesn't change the fact that the renovation was nothing short of criminal. You don't tweak the Mona Lisa by adding vivid colors and re-painting spots that may have faded over the centuries and call it a success.

As for the exterior of NYS, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'd like to share an interesting little comparison that I posted in the NYS thread (some of the folks here don't seem to visit that thread):

[Rob R]

Hey Rob, I agree with you on this one. RYS is not as nice as NYS, I thought RYS was very 70's in design, the only thing that was nice about it was the fact that the Yankees played there. In business and life you have to move forward, you cannot be stuck in the past. The Yankees made a smart business decision and built a ballpark that will give them greater advantage over the rest of baseball...as a fan and someone who owns his own business, I can appreciate that.
Thank you for all the photos.

Hey, there are a couple of us here at least. Actually, at the biggest Yankee fan forums (i.e. NYYFans), an overwhelming majority of Yankee fans prefer NYS to RYS aesthetically and for its creature comforts. And these are fans (many old timers too) that very-well understand Yankee history and the significance of Yankee Stadium. Are you originally from NC and have you visited the stadium yet?

[JE Piper]

Dear Mr. Mandrake,

You present a very cogent assessment above of the mindset that prevailed when Yankee Stadium was renovated. One might also add that this was done during the Lindsay years, when many abominations occurred in this City.

Thank you.

[Rob R]

Rob

There are some things that they needed to do in 1973. From what I recall as a youngster, I think the bathrooms were an abomination. They certainly did not have enough ladies rest rooms. There was absolutely no ADA type accessibilty anywhere. The scoreboard in RF looked like it would land on people's heads at any moment. Yes, most of the stuff was cosmetic, but the place needed some fixing.

It's tough to take 2010 thinking and put it into the early 1970's mindset. The Yankees were getting killed by the Mets at the gate, and I think blame was put on the actual stadium (and not the-then horrible neighborhood, etc). In 1972, the Yanks drew 966,000 and the Mets 2.2 million (the Mets had drawn 2.7 mil in '70) so I think people thought 'we need a modern stadium'......of course they thought wrong ! I, too, prefer OYS over RYS but one can't forget that the franchise was threatening to leave. It's unthinkable in 2010 that they would ever consider it, but in the context of the late 1960's and early 1970's, it was a very real threat. The Yankees saw how the Mets were drawing, and also saw how much money the Dodgers were raking in out in LALA land. If it wasn't for Robert Short scheming to get out of DC, the Yankees could have moved to Texas in 1971. If there are NYY fans who don't believe it, they can research both the Yankees threats and Robert Short's plan to get out of his brand new Stadium in DC (by charging the highest prices, by playing up the unsafe neighborhood, etc).
The mindset that 'ruined' the look of OYS with the renovations did not change until the opening of Camden Yards. That ballpark finally stopped the cookie cutter madness and started a new trend (which itself is becoming a little played out)

(I did mention ADA seating earlier, or lack of. My father in law claims that for football games, people in w/c's were actually allowed on the sidelines for Giants games. I will have to verify that one.)

You give a great perspective on the goings-on during that era and the climate that were instrumental in some of the choices made. From an aesthetic standpoint, too bad it was during the garish 1970's era -- probably the worst decade in America, style and taste-wise -- that had influence on these choices.

[Rob R]

Even if the pod aside Gate 2 remained as was?

If they would have renovated Yankee Stadium in its original spot, ideally, they'd have destroyed every last remnant of RYS, with the exception of the extended upper deck. I think that the two most identifiable, unique features of OYS were Gate 4 and the frieze, and would be the first two features I'd reintroduce, the tiered upper deck exterior, the third.

Gate 4 was the entrance way to the old palace and was probably embedded in the minds of those who ever dreamed of walking through Yankee Stadium's doors for the first time, young or old. Picture the Taj Mahal with a concrete escalator pod or concrete parking lot replacing its entrance. That's RYS. Again, where's the outrage over the criminal defacing of baseball's undeniable palace as there is for the new stadium?

In answer to your question about the pod aside Gate 2, it wasn't as visible or meaningful as Gate 4, so as hideous as it looked, I could have grudgingly lived with it had they restored Yankee Stadium to it's original beauty.

[Jim Vaz]

Since Garys pictures are from Saturday, can anyone confirm if the last section is still up?

My next question is, if so do any Yankees fans plan on having sort of a sending off gathering or get together like the Mets fans did last March?

[YanksRule]

If they would have renovated Yankee Stadium in its original spot, ideally, they'd have destroyed every last remnant of RYS, with the exception of the extended upper deck. I think that the two most identifiable, unique features of OYS were Gate 4 and the frieze, and would be the first two features I'd reintroduce, the tiered upper deck exterior, the third.

Gate 4 was the entrance way to the old palace and was probably embedded in the minds of those who ever dreamed of walking through Yankee Stadium's doors for the first time, young or old. Picture the Taj Mahal with a concrete escalator pod or concrete parking lot replacing its entrance. That's RYS. Again, where's the outrage over the criminal defacing of baseball's undeniable palace as there is for the new stadium?

In answer to your question about the pod aside Gate 2, it wasn't as visible or meaningful as Gate 4, so as hideous as it looked, I could have grudgingly lived with it had they restored Yankee Stadium to it's original beauty.

I'm not so sure they would have been allowed to keep the steep upper deck- I know there are new ADA regulations for new buildings, but I am not sure what the rule is to renovate- to get the permit, they may of had to "fix" the upper deck.

Does someone who knows more about these things know if this would be the case?

Plus I think it just doesn't make fiscal sense considering the Yanks would spend a ton of money on renovations, quite possibly more than the new ballpark costs, they would not play at Yankee Stadium for a few years, probably longer than the construction of NYS took, and they would lose revenue there, and then they would still end up with a ballpark where the majority of the seats are in the "cheap" area so they wouldn't make the money that they lost back so quickly. Sure, there would have been a ton of suites, but still thousands of seats less that the new place has in more expensive areas.

Basically what the Yankees did in the new stadium was take the large upper deck from RYS and move a little more than half of it down to the Loge level where the Yanks can charge more, and quite honestly, the view there is fantastic. If they extended the loge in the renovated stadium, the Yanks would be basically changing Main Box seats and turning them into Main Reserved seats because the tunnel vision would be so terrible, which would also make the Yanks lose money since they couldn't charge as much, and I wouldn't want to know what the "current" Main Reserved seats would be like.

To summarize, if the Yankees renovated the old stadium and kept the upper deck the way it was, if that was even legally possible, the Yanks would end up losing revenue in many ways. Sure, they would have kept the imposing upper deck of the renovated stadium, but it still wouldn't have any charm as that was all lost in the 70's, but anyone can hopefully at least appreciate the business side of it.

[quagmire]

In order to change the upper deck, they would have had to completely demolish the upper deck if they had to change the grade of it. Which would mean damage done to the loge and field sections as I doubt they would be able to remove the upper deck without some kind of damage.

[kobathecat]

I've always wondered given the extensiveness of the 70's renovations, would it not have been cheaper to have demolished the entire stadium at that time and rebuild it from the ground up? Disregard historical sensibilities when considering this. Also, for all the love of old Gate 4, it really wasn't all that much; several entry doors on the ground level, a couple of fake planters, some nice medallions and 'YANKEE STADIUM' spelled at the top. The structure itself was a non-substantial one-dimensional concrete facade. It looked nice, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't exactly a grand entrance way or even what is called Gate 4 on NYS. Ironically, I think worse than the 70's era pod was the late 50's or 60's era 'LONGINES' sign and digital clock that punched holes through the gate's concrete exterior, obscured the medallions and the original 'YANKEE STADIUM' sign, requiring them to ad the familiar larger letters at the top.

let's be honest, the physical structure of OYS was not given the care and upkeep it deserved once it entered middle and old age. had it survived (with the team not moving) into the late 70's/early 80's, it almost certainly would have been torn down and replaced at that earlier date without a renovation.

[Maas_Pasqua_Pags]

Since Garys pictures are from Saturday, can anyone confirm if the last section is still up?

My next question is, if so do any Yankees fans plan on having sort of a sending off gathering or get together like the Mets fans did last March?

As of yesterday afternoon, there was a section still standing.

[Jim Vaz]

As of yesterday afternoon, there was a section still standing.

Okay thanks.

I'm wondering if the fans on Friday night will see it up or not.

[DrBear]

(I did mention ADA seating earlier, or lack of. My father in law claims that for football games, people in w/c's were actually allowed on the sidelines for Giants games. I will have to verify that one.)

I don't know about Yankee Stadium, but that was the case at Lambeau Field from the time it opened in 1957 until the club seats were built in the late 1980s. There was an area roughly from the goal line to the 20 on one sideline. And there isn't much room on the sidelines at Lambeau (although in those days, you didn't have TV trucks on both sides or promotional stuff clogging up the area.)