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  • Originally posted by mackenzie View Post
    Sooo, it looks to me like they were moved from either Gates 4 or 6 to their current location during the renovation.
    I think I read that in one of the Yankee publications from around the time of the renovation but I can't point to any sources to back you up. Nevetheless, I think you're correct.
    X
    What's THAT guy doing?
    - one of the YES Network broadcasters, after the camera cut to me doing the thumbs-down after Todd Frazier's home run

    Comment


    • These myths that fans are different in some areas than in others is laughable. Any team that has sustained success becomes a cult favorite, and any team that has sustained failure for an extended period of time has an apathetic, indifferent fanbase. It's the way sports works, I don't care where you are.[/QUOTE]
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------
      I'm sorry dude but there is no better major league baseball town in America than Boston. The Red Sox have always been big. Years ago they didn't draw like they do now because no team did. Keep in mind even with those great teams from 1923-1964 the Yankees never drew over 2.3 million. Major league attendance rose because of the advent of season ticket plans and corporations buying up so many ticket plans. (Oakland and Atlanta can't draw flies even when their teams win.)


      And yes, fans are very different in different areas. Are you joking? I've been to games in San Diego, Anaheim, and Cleveland recently and the fans act like they're on ritalin.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by scooterfan View Post
        I'm sorry dude but there is no better major league baseball town in America than Boston. The Red Sox have always been big. Years ago they didn't draw like they do now because no team did. Keep in mind even with those great teams from 1923-1964 the Yankees never drew over 2.3 million. Major league attendance rose because of the advent of season ticket plans and corporations buying up so many ticket plans. (Oakland and Atlanta can't draw flies even when their teams win.)
        1986 - Red Sox average attendance: 26,514; AL Rank in attendance: 5th

        They were 7,500 empty seats per game below capacity in a year they went to the World Series, and 4 other teams ranked ahead of them in attendance.

        You act like the Sox were selling out every game when nobody else was. It's just not the case.


        And yes, fans are very different in different areas. Are you joking? I've been to games in San Diego, Anaheim, and Cleveland recently and the fans act like they're on ritalin.
        And I've been to Fenway 4 times. When I went in 94, it was like there were more Yankee fans than Sox fans... at least it sounded that way. The 1918 chants resonated throughout the whole place. The Red Sox had bad teams back then, and their fanbase appeared much less "rabid". They were struggling to play .500 ball for several years, and Fenway was nothing even remotely close to a "hot ticket" despite the fact that it only held 34,000.

        Those cities you mention, aside from Anaheim, have had nothing even resembling a sustained period of success like the Yankees or Red Sox have had. A good team here and there, sure, but never year after year. And I went to an Angels vs. Red Sox game at Angel Stadium in 2006, and the crowd was no different than what I've experienced anywhere else. It was very intense.

        I don't know what's wrong with Atlanta - of course there are exceptions to any rule. Some areas just fail for some unknown reason. But generally speaking, if an area has a team that sustains excellence over a period of 5-7 years, is a contender every year, wins over 90 games often, and throws in a couple World Series victories, then you're going to have a rabid fanbase. New York and Boston are really the only two teams that fit that description right now. St. Louis is close, but not quite yet.

        It's not coincidence that the Red Sox have only recently started selling out every game in the last 5 or so years. Baseball attendance is higher than ever, and the Red Sox are winning. It has nothing to do with a rabid fanbase. Once again, where were all these rabid fans in the early 90s when the Red Sox were perennially 7th in AL attendance? It's not like Fenway was at full capacity - they were averaging anywhere from 3,000 to 8,000 fans below capacity. In 1998, the year they won the Wild Card and had 92 wins, they were 9th in the AL in attendance, averaging just 27,500 per game. Where was this mythological rabid fanbase then? I have yet to get an explanation for this, but I know what it was. The Red Sox were 78-84 in 2007. Fans didn't want to show up every day and watch a loser. They weren't out in force, supporting their team regardless of their success. The Red Sox fans were like fans anywhere else. They only showed up in force when the team proved they were a powerhouse team. It happens everywhere.

        When the Red Sox weren't fielding winning teams, you'd be hard pressed to find much more excitement there than you find in any of the present day big cities with mediocre teams.

        Just out of curiosity - have you ever lived in NY? What's your favorite team? Have you always been a fan of that team?
        Last edited by Pinstripes; 03-30-2009, 10:08 PM.
        New York Yankees
        New York Rangers
        New York Giants

        Comment


        • Vin Scully, in commenting on Game 6 of the 1975 World Series, stated that, "when the Red Sox win, all of New England feels better." That's one hell of a fanbase.

          Also, a comment was made by John Chancellor and Roger Angell (in the Ken Burns' documentary) stating that, "Winning, if it goes on too long, gets boring." That being said, National League fans, robbed of their Giants and Dodgers, flocked to the Polo Grounds and Shea...and of course, this time period roughly coincided with the early warning signs of the Yankee collapse after the 1964 Series (as well as the last World Championship in '62).

          But as Yankee fans, we delight in the "Evil Empire" moniker. The Yankees are the team to which every other team aspires (Jeter has, in his diplomatic way, alluded to this time-to-time)...and it's much sweeter to be the "hated" than the "hater."

          And I thought I recalled seeing kiosks outside Gate 4 in 2007, but none of my photographs show them. In circum-navigating the exterior of the Stadium with my daughter, I must have gotten "turned around and associated the
          ticket booths at Gate 2 with what I saw at Gate 4.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by monkeypants View Post
            For what it's worth, it looks like the Heritage Field plan is somewhat different now, according to the most recent plan map posted on the NYC Parks page. Heritage Park now, according to this plan, follows the old Stadium contour less closely, more obliterating the original footprint:
            When HOK first came out with their Heritage park ground-level views, it was subtle, but noticable, that the footprint would be gone. It was in the aerials of the updated plan that the footprint remained - but the 3 fields really looked squeezed in and unworkable . . .

            . . so, all the more reason to save the gate!

            Comment


            • Save the gate!

              Originally posted by Chris Jones View Post
              Mark:

              A quick question...how far by taxi or subway is the Washington Park site from the Stadium? I know the outfield wall is the oldest surviving "part" of a major league park in the country, and if time permits on May 5, I'd like to see it.

              Thanks,

              Chris

              Post-Script...fellas, concerning the Gate, the Kiosks (ticket booths), and the Wall; seriously, what IS our next move? Didn't someone write that some of the Yankee brass did peruse BBF...if so, who?
              Originally posted by Chris Jones View Post
              Gentlemen:

              You're right, Gate 2 is the obvious choice for preservation (for location as well as for the fact that the Gate 4 facade was gutted)...and absolutely, "aim high!"

              The "Call to Action" has been sounded and the rallying cry appears above in bold print...what's our next move?

              Ya'll (sorry, "youse guys") are brilliant.

              Regards,

              Chris
              Our next move:

              1) Does someone have the ability to create/host a website?

              2) Does someone have the ability to create artist renderings? (I think there are several architects in these threads . . )


              Once we have that we can create several proposals (Aim high, medium, low) and put them on the site for all to see. Also on the site we can create a petition.

              From the renderings we can then create full color brochures with the plans (paper and electronic format) and send to former players, news agencies, sports talk show hosts, elected officials. The brochures can also be left at the local bars and souvenir stores for handout - with a "coupon" to be mailed to elected officials for support.

              Comment


              • Here is an example of a preservation website . . . I started this a while back but I never had the time or resources to finish it. But it provides a suggested framework for how to put our proposals together to make them presentable.
                Attached Files
                Last edited by SparkyL; 03-31-2009, 06:32 AM.

                Comment


                • Dear mackenzie,
                  No, I have nothing about kiosks in my book. They weren't mentioned in any newspaper or other articles I read.
                  -Mike Wagner

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Pinstripes View Post
                    Once again, the Red Sox are the only thing in town. It's hard to equate. If you add the Mets and Yankees (YES+SNY) viewership percentages together, the total percentage is in-line with the NESN percentage.

                    This didn't happen until the 2000's. The Red Sox didn't dominate anything (either on the field or to their fanbased) in the 90s. It's all about success. People jumped on that bandwagon just as fast as they did everywhere else when the local team started winning. It's religion because the Sox have won two World Series in the past 5 years. Not because the people who live in New England and the Boston area are somehow different human beings than those who are Yankee fans. These myths that fans are different in some areas than in others is laughable. Any team that has sustained success becomes a cult favorite, and any team that has sustained failure for an extended period of time has an apathetic, indifferent fanbase. It's the way sports works, I don't care where you are.
                    I live in New England, and I can say that the Red Sox have always been THE team that NE sports fans root for. But since 2004...it's like EVERY SINGLE PERSON claims to like the Sox here. Obviously it died back down with the Sox being eliminated by the Rays in October and the Celtics taking center stage.

                    But yeah you are absolutely right. Red Sox 'religion' is true if you are talking about legit Red Sox fans who attend the games and genuinely enjoy the game. But the rest of 'em... it's just quantity instead of quality. Most of them forget about the Sox in the winter and remember that they are good when October comes around again.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • Save, Keep, and Salvage...

                      Swaboda and Stadiumbuilder provided photographs...others have agreed and added to their vision(s), and now SparkyL has offered concrete directions.

                      We can continue the discussion until there's nothing left to preserve, or we can move on it. Is there a Yankee (or baseball) fan anywhere, who doesn't want some part of the Original preserved? We will embrace the new Stadium
                      (we have no choice), but there's more at stake here.

                      The poet, William Wordsworth wrote, "The child is father to the man."
                      Basically, what we are is directly related to what we were. The "child" will be opening its gates in a matter of days...what child (especially one who gets his looks and personality from his dad...and NYS certainly got its looks from "dad" across the street)), wants all tangible evidence of his father's (or mother's) earthly existence erased and thrown away...don't we hang on to the pocket watch, old letters, and ring, used, written, or worn by "dear old Dad?"

                      SAVE THE GATE, KEEP THE KIOSKS, and SALVAGE THE WALL, for these are OUR pocket watches, letters, and rings.

                      Comment


                      • Dear SparkyL,
                        I believe the best bet is to get the news media involved. You'll reach millions of people at one time if they put a story in the air or the newspaper.

                        What is the latest feeling about the people in New York wanting to save a portion of Yankee Stadium for history? I think we'll have a more accurate feeling after fans go to the new Stadium.

                        At any rate, I hope part of the original Stadium will be saved. People will probably be in awe of the new Stadium, and that's fine. But the old Stadium has earned its place in American souls and history many times over, and should not be completely destroyed.

                        The community can definitely benefit, and should benefit. Anything can be worked out when people choose to be reasonable and open minded. A combination of a museum and park where the old Yankee Stadium stands will no doubt bring in lots of revenue, thereby serving two positive purposes for this sacred structure.

                        Also, for those of us who love the old shrine, it won't hurt nearly as much to have a part of it standing where we can pay our respects to the House That Ruth Built, and the legends that played there.
                        Yankee Stadium is a legend in itself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                        -Mike Wagner

                        Comment


                        • Whatever the final disposition of the site, I hope somehow the area behind, or around, home plate, is preserved or marked, with an accurate representation of its orientation.

                          Remember, the apartment buildings on the other side of the #4 train, and the Bronx County Courthouse, are the very same buildings that all of the greats saw when they stepped up to the plate, and they form the backdrop to some very historical Yankee moments (Lou Gehrig's speech, for example). So, as long as those buildings still stand, hopefully people will be able to walk up to the area where home plate stood, look towards those buildings, and imagine...
                          X
                          What's THAT guy doing?
                          - one of the YES Network broadcasters, after the camera cut to me doing the thumbs-down after Todd Frazier's home run

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by SparkyL View Post
                            Our next move:

                            1) Does someone have the ability to create/host a website?

                            2) Does someone have the ability to create artist renderings? (I think there are several architects in these threads . . )


                            Once we have that we can create several proposals (Aim high, medium, low) and put them on the site for all to see. Also on the site we can create a petition.

                            From the renderings we can then create full color brochures with the plans (paper and electronic format) and send to former players, news agencies, sports talk show hosts, elected officials. The brochures can also be left at the local bars and souvenir stores for handout - with a "coupon" to be mailed to elected officials for support.
                            OK - so we need somone who can create/host a website and someone (or several someones) who can create some renderings . . . .

                            . . . any takers?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by SparkyL View Post
                              OK - so we need somone who can create/host a website and someone (or several someones) who can create some renderings . . . .

                              . . . any takers?
                              Sparkky, those are great plans, and your rendering is exactly as it should be. I think that if anyone here has access to any of the media, they should be submitted ASAP, as, to be honest, I think that the city would like to see all of yankee stadium gone before anyone can complain.
                              I have tried going to the politicians(schumer and clinton), and never recieved a reply. I also wrote off and called preservation societies. So it seems to me, they want their plans kept ' hush - hush' .
                              Your plan preserves the original sections of the stadium, and allows almost all of the parkland space as well. As is shown in your renderings, what the city will do is destroy the original walls of yankee stadium, not just the ' 1973-75 renovation" . Your renderings prove that, so what it comes down to is why would the city of new york even WANT to be responsible for tearing down the most famous baseball stadium in america? They have never answered that question, because no one has asked it. And of course Im talking about the 1923 original sections of course.
                              The thing is, it needs to be presented to the media. There have been websits proposing preservation, but to no avail.
                              The media here is the key. Otherwise, Im afraid, all that will be left will be a home plate marker

                              Comment


                              • Save, Keep, Salvage

                                Guys - Good suggestions today. I think that we have time to make this attempt to save some elements of our stadium but not much. As Chris wrote, if we're to have any chance of accomplishing this, we should move forward and act.

                                I definitely agree with Sparky's suggestions of a website and creating drawings/renderings, as well as shaneslatts’s idea of approaching the media to get this out there before it's too late. And thanks, Sparky, for the web links. It does provide a good framework to begin.

                                With regard to the media, I think that we would need to approach them as a group with a specific mission plan, proposal(s), and rational. This would give our idea enough credibility to penetrate into the media in the first place, and then reach the ultimate targets of the decision makers in the City government, Parks department, neighborhood groups, etc. It certainly wouldn't hurt if someone high up within the Yankee front office got behind this, as well. I think the best approach with these various groups would be to explain how their particular interests would be served here.

                                Towards this end, I think we should get an idea here of how many of us would be willing to take part in this effort. Then, perhaps within a week or two, as many of us that might be available could meet somewhere in the NY Metro area to discuss strategy and practical issues. By discussing our ideas in person and organizing this group, tasks could be divided up so as to save time. Resources such as the website question, etc. could be identified.

                                I believe that there are a whole lot of you out there with great ideas to contribute. These threads are proof enough of that. We might not be completely successful but we’ll never know unless we try. To me, preserving even a small part of our historic old stadium is worth it.

                                Shall we do this?

                                Regards,
                                Mark

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