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  • Originally posted by Pinstripes View Post
    Here's a quick photoshop of something I think would look good. This is gate 2, across from the new stadium.

    That is a great rendering. How do you guys think it would look with the arches completely cut out (similar to those in the Great Hall, or even with glass windows) and maybe if the actual look of the concrete was lighter to greater resemble the original style of OYS.

    It's amazing that not a single gate was preserved during renovation. I'm sure it would not have been impossible since there are archaeologists who have literally had help disassembling (ancient) artifacts from all over the world and shipped elsewhere and reassembled. Wouldn't the Yanks have have figured that any of that stuff would have had some historical value despite the condition of it?

    I wonder what happened to the actual raised letters on each of the gates. Did they get scrapped along with the frieze? (another injustice)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by dpcv8 View Post
      Anybody bother to ask the people who live in the South Bronx what THEY want done with the site?
      As far as the people of the Bronx, this is an interesting thing.

      This may be a long post so bear with me.

      I grew up 5 blocks from the stadium in the 80s and 90s and RYS was very much a big deal to mean and the community even if the organization (read: front office could care less about the people). There are some real die hard fans who can be seen sitting in front of their buildings on summer days listening to the games on the radio with the stadium no more than a few minutes away by foot.

      The people of Highbridge (where I grew up) have a certain connection to the stadium that even other areas of the Bronx dont have because the Bronx is a very large place. RYS is literally embedded in the neighborhood to a point where you cant even see it from some distances like you can with arenas and ballparks in other cities, like Phoenix, for example.

      With that said I think that politicians, business types and the like just dont give a crap about what the people from the area really feel because it has been that way since forever and money has always been the deciding factor in everything and since this is not a wealthy area, the people dont have a voice.

      The area has changed drastically for the better since I was a teenager in the 90s and I consider it relatively safe. But it is still one of the poorest congressional districts in the nation so anyone with a suitcase full of $$$ can come in and do what they please (like the new Gateway mall near the stadium and the plans to convert the Kingsbridge armory into another retail hub, rather than something like a school).

      This is the reality of things in the Bronx and it only gets neglected until someone wants something, like Macombs park where NYS now sits. The bottom line is this, a federally funded park was taken for private use and hasn't been replaced and wont be for some time. No matter how you spin it that is the truth. Back room deals were put in place for NYS and Citi and there's nothing no one could have done about it because I feel like both buildings were a package deal where everyone gets in a huff about the tax free bonds and then once the parks open, the smoke clears and then both older structure can be demolished with little fan fare.

      The proposed parks to replace the land NYS sits on, I feel, are inadequate because the will rest in substandard locations (top of a parking structure ) and near a major highway (the Deegan) and two bridges (145th and 155th street bridges) Those places are nowhere for kids to be playing at no matter how nice and modern the facilities are. Macombs park wasnt the best park in terms of lush grass and everything, but I was large, undisturbed and hosted a ton of soccer games, track events, baseball games and was a great place to hang out and there were large trees everywhere. Even the tennis center was demolished to make way for the new VIP parking lot where 99% of the real die hard fans will never get a chance to park in.

      So in all fairness, maybe nothing should remain from the demolition of RYS because they Yanks got a lot more from this deal than the community. They inconvenienced the people with the renovation in 1974 and did it again for the past 2 years (the place was a mess up until a few months ago). The team hasn;t even lived up to its end of the bargain and donated to the community groups it said it would and the city has dragged its feet in dismantling the stadium. I know demolition will be tedious, but to have 2 stadiums up at the same time is insane.

      I honestly have no idea where the kids in the area are playing now and the temporary park they put up is a poor attempt to appease the community. The running track is an odd shape and the place is simply too small.

      And while there are many Yankee fans in that area, think about those who dont care for baseball or the organization (not out of spite, but just arent into sports). What about those people?

      As a fan I want to see something from RYS remain, but the renovation killed the character of OYS, so they might as well knock everything down and sell what they can. Even though I only have a connection with RYS, they city and the Yanks arent playing fair with having 2 buildings up at the same time and they JUST started putting up the construction fences this week around RYS. A real shame.

      If the city was for real about things, they would flatten RYS and the garage next to it and build a real park that the community could enjoy. Sadly, I feel like all of the mistakes from the 60s (OYS being neglected) and the 70s (sh!tty renovation) have come back to bite the community in the ass because they have no parks, no timetable and can't even afford to catch a few games to see a team that has made billions on the same plot of land over they years.

      I love the Yankees, but that love is only for the players and fans, and not these men who lurk behind the scenes and make decisions without considering the people who have to live here 365 days a year, not just drop in for a few hours 81 times a year.

      Comment


      • The loss of a bit of parkland for several years is a small price to pay for the jobs created in that area, as well as the revenue it generates to the nearby business. No, it doesn't directly help everyone, but the community is better off with Yankee Stadium in it than it would be without it.

        I'm also curious about this comment:

        The proposed parks to replace the land NYS sits on, I feel, are inadequate because the will rest in substandard locations (top of a parking structure ) and near a major highway (the Deegan) and two bridges (145th and 155th street bridges) Those places are nowhere for kids to be playing at no matter how nice and modern the facilities are. Macombs park wasnt the best park in terms of lush grass and everything, but I was large, undisturbed and hosted a ton of soccer games, track events, baseball games and was a great place to hang out and there were large trees everywhere.
        Firstly, how is the parking garage a substandard location? Modern desgins will allow it to be virutally indistinguishable from a "regular" park. Disney World's Magic Kindgom is built nearly entirely on the "2nd floor" of a network of underground corridors, but you'd never know it.

        Also, how are the new park locations nowhere for kids to be playing no matter how nice the facilities are? What's wrong with them? How are they any worse of a location than Macombs?

        Look, I totally understand that the community is going to suffer for a while, and that the loss of some of that parkland for a while hurts. But the truth is, no matter how much it's "all about money" when it comes to pro sports, the truth is that there are a ton of jobs available at the stadium and the surrounding businesses. The new Mall that's near the Metro North station should also provide a good place for locals to get jobs. It's likely that none of the businesses around the stadium would even exist, and would be of a much lower quality, if it weren't for Yankee Stadium.

        So while it hurts during this transition period, the bottom line is that Yankee Stadium has been helping out that neighborhood for a long time, whether or not they purposely have ever tried to. Had the stadium never been there, or had the Yankees moved out instead of moving across the street, believe me, the area would be a lot worse off. You might have your parks, but there would be a lot less jobs and the area would do a lot less business.
        Last edited by Pinstripes; 04-02-2009, 03:13 AM.
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        • Originally posted by Pinstripes View Post
          The loss of a bit of parkland for several years is a small price to pay for the jobs created in that area, as well as the revenue it generates to the nearby business. No, it doesn't directly help everyone, but the community is better off with Yankee Stadium in it than it would be without it.

          I'm also curious about this comment:

          Firstly, how is the parking garage a substandard location? Modern desgins will allow it to be virutally indistinguishable from a "regular" park. Disney World's Magic Kindgom is built nearly entirely on the "2nd floor" of a network of underground corridors, but you'd never know it.

          Also, how are the new park locations nowhere for kids to be playing no matter how nice the facilities are? What's wrong with them? How are they any worse of a location than Macombs?

          Look, I totally understand that the community is going to suffer for a while, and that the loss of some of that parkland for a while hurts. But the truth is, no matter how much it's "all about money" when it comes to pro sports, the truth is that there are a ton of jobs available at the stadium and the surrounding businesses. The new Mall that's near the Metro North station should also provide a good place for locals to get jobs. It's likely that none of the businesses around the stadium would even exist, and would be of a much lower quality, if it weren't for Yankee Stadium.

          So while it hurts during this transition period, the bottom line is that Yankee Stadium has been helping out that neighborhood for a long time, whether or not they purposely have ever tried to. Had the stadium never been there, or had the Yankees moved out instead of moving across the street, believe me, the area would be a lot worse off. You might have your parks, but there would be a lot less jobs and the area would do a lot less business.
          I'm not sure if you've been to the area where the OYS/NYS development is doing on but the first new park sits on the parking structure between both stadiums and literally bulges out of the ground. It's not even street level and you have to climb up a bunch of stairs to access it.

          When you look at aerial images of the site, it's clear that the structure is more about parking (the lot wont even be finished for months) and the park on top is more of an after thought.

          As far as the other parks are concerned (Heritage Park excluded) the replacement parks are broken up all over the place and extremely close to a major highway and a couple of bridges. That area is constantly jammed with cars and even with the street lights, it's confusing to cross because cars are coming from all different directions. Then you have the new mall towering over the entire area where the new parks will reside, which the renderings for the re-development dont reflect.

          I guess you have to know the area really well to get what I mean. As far as the job situation is concerned, NYS created new jobs for a short time that are mostly gone since the construction is done. The new demolition jobs for RYS will be around for an even shorter time. The Hard Rock/Steak House will create a handful of jobs year round (which is good), but everything else is just seasonal stuff. With the new mall, that place is massive and will create a few jobs, but I honestly think they will have a hard time finding retailers to open shops there (especially in this economy) and Target/Best Buy/BJs can't take up all of the space since that would be ridiculous.

          The issue over the parks is that there is more than just baseball going on in the Bronx and this is coming from a die hard Yankees fan, but I'm being realistic. We all know how much money plays in all of this and from someone who grew up in the community, the people have done their share just like the team has. When the area was a madhouse back in the 70s/80s, it was the people who turned things around, not the team or extra police in the area on game days. I think people just wanted to live decently without all of the madness/stigma attached to so-called urban areas.

          The team has been a benefit to the community all of these years, but it's the flavor of the area and the people that held the place in tact during the lean years in the 80s/early 90s when they werent winning anything.

          Comment


          • My hats off to you babalou. Two great posts.
            "I wouldn't say I was the best manager in the business. But I was in the top one."
            - Brian Clough
            "I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
            I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob"

            - John Lennon

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            • Well said babalou!

              Brooklyndodger14 thanks for that information on the kiosks. I am amazed every day at how much data is produced on this site for those interested in baseball. Kiosk plans, then and now photos. I will definately be making a trip to the Smithsonian to visit.

              Although I am a Mets fan I have a special place in my heart for YS. My Dad took me and my brother & sister to our first big league games there in 1961. I still rememeber it well.

              Comment


              • Conference Call

                Pinstripes:

                That is a beautiful rendering...economical and befitting a place called Heritage Park.

                ...and to Mark and Sparky (and once again to those sharing like mind-sets):

                Write back and give me more information about "conference calls" and "private messages"...how do they work?

                ...and some passing thoughts...we've come along way since viewing the innovative and appealing renderings offered by YankeeStadium1923 and Swoboda (as well as the comments offered in earlier posts) on page 28.

                ...if the original kiosks are good enough for the Smithsonian, then Gate 2 is good enough for Heritage Park.

                The "recreated" kiosks, if not situated at Gate 2, could easily be placed behind the backstops located in Heritage Park, to be utilized as storage facilities (for bases, first-aid, bats, etc.), concession/hotdog stands, whatever...

                A PERSONAL THANK YOU TO ALL THE BBF FOLKS WHO HAVE OFFERED THEIR IDEAS AND PASSION CONCERNING THE PRESERVATION OF SOMETHING WE EACH HOLD SO DEAR.

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                • Originally posted by Pinstripes View Post
                  Here's a quick photoshop of something I think would look good. This is gate 2, across from the new stadium.

                  You do realize that structurally that wall wasn't designed to be free standing.


                  Sorry, but I think a free standing wall of the stadium is hideous.


                  Not to mention; the plans for demolition are already in motion. If you wanted to fight for a plan, you should have done it months, if not years ago.
                  In contrast, the TIger Stadium conservancy started work long before the stadium was actually closed.
                  Last edited by doctor_gogol; 04-02-2009, 08:00 AM.
                  Vintage Photos of Detroit Ballparks:
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/doctor_gogol/sets/

                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/

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                  • Gate 2

                    The concern for the free-standing entrance has entered my mind...but I stiill think the rendering looks great and could be made to work. If height and concern for the free-standing entrance is a problem, possibly it could be scaled down in some fashion. We could also consider the repostioning of the original centerfield wall, complete with the exit doors.

                    I believe anything from the 1923 Original, the 1928 additions, or the 1937 additions, would be appropriate.

                    Regards,

                    Chris

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                    • Originally posted by Chris Jones View Post

                      ...and to Mark and Sparky (and once again to those sharing like mind-sets):

                      Write back and give me more information about "conference calls" and "private messages"...how do they work?
                      Hi Chris,

                      Once you're logged in, you'll see the word "welcome" followed by your screen name at the top of any page. Two lines below that, click on "private messages". Then about 2/3 down on the left column, click on "send new message". Type in the recipient's user name and then the message text below.

                      I did attempt to send you a private message a few days back. See if you got that one and let me know. Then I'll know I did it right!

                      Regards,
                      Mark

                      Comment


                      • The area around Yankee Stadium improved because the crack epidemic finally ran its course and the police policies of Bill Bratton and Giuliani were a big help as well. It's a shame so much park space was gutted to accommodate Steinbrenner and his bean counters. The proposed park space is disparate and it will never be the same. I miss going to the stadium early and watching the guys play basketball on the courts along the left field line. It's a shame that we have apologists there who did George Steinbrenner's bidding for him because it was a fashionable thing to do.

                        If Steinbrenner had proposed this new stadium at the lowest point of his tenure in the early 90s when the team stunk and he was a pariah this project never would've gotten off the ground like it did in 2004 and 2005. And, if the Yankees had a Mayor who wasn't a corporate shill like Bloomberg this project never would've happened.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by scooterfan View Post
                          The area around Yankee Stadium improved because the crack epidemic finally ran its course and the police policies of Bill Bratton and Giuliani were a big help as well. It's a shame so much park space was gutted to accommodate Steinbrenner and his bean counters. The proposed park space is disparate and it will never be the same. I miss going to the stadium early and watching the guys play basketball on the courts along the left field line. It's a shame that we have apologists there who did George Steinbrenner's bidding for him because it was a fashionable thing to do.

                          If Steinbrenner had proposed this new stadium at the lowest point of his tenure in the early 90s when the team stunk and he was a pariah this project never would've gotten off the ground like it did in 2004 and 2005. And, if the Yankees had a Mayor who wasn't a corporate shill like Bloomberg this project never would've happened.
                          Yeah, the team probably would have moved downtown to Manhattan or even across the river to the Meadowlands. I have a feeling that if the Bronx was stubborn about it, the Steinbrenners would have moved. No business that's in it to make money will stick around somewhere that won't let them make their full potential. While we'd love to be romantic about it and pretend that the Yankees should have found some miracle solution to keep the old stadium, what's happening now was inevitable either way. The two years that the Yankees would have had to play in another stadium (Citi/Shea) would have been almost as detrimental to the area as what they actually did moving across the street.

                          Again, I don't dispute that it's a problem for the local area. But it's a symbiosis. There are benefits to having the Yankees in the Bronx, and sadly the tradeoff is some problems with parkland. I'm not so sure the alternative (the Yankees deciding the Bronx is no longer profitable) is preferable to what's transpiring right now. I think that would ultimately be worse for the community.
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                          • The Yankees nor any other baseball team was ever going to move to the West Side of Manhattan. This was the most ridiculous idea ever conceived. Just like the Patriots ownership played games with Hartford and Providence to get a better stadium deal closer to Boston.

                            The chief complaint for poor Yankee attendance in 1993 when the Yankees had their first winning season since 1988 was parking and traffic. We all know how that would've worked out in the center of the largest metropolis in America. Good grief, what idiocy.

                            The area around Yankee Stadium is a fortress. For the past decade plus there have been more cops around Yankee Stadium on game day than any other place in New York City. This has played a key role in making Yankee Stadium a more hospitable place for yuppie suburban white people on game day who in prior years were reluctant to make the trek into the hood.

                            And the Yankees were never going to New Jersey. Never. Steinbrenner never would've had the balls to take the team out of New York.

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                            • Originally posted by scooterfan View Post
                              This has played a key role in making Yankee Stadium a more hospitable place for yuppie suburban white people on game day who in prior years were reluctant to make the trek into the hood.
                              Stereotypes now? You better be careful with those. You don't have to be a born and bred New Yorker who's comfortable on the streets to be a Yankee fan, nor should anyone feel intimidated out of going to a game. I know a lot of seriously die hard Yankee fans who have been wary of trips to Yankee Stadium because of the neighborhood around it. Wanting to feel comfortable walking down the street isn't a crime.

                              Of all the stadiums I've been to, the neighborhood around Yankee Stadium is by far the least inviting. I'm not suggesting its dangerous, but it's just not a family atmosphere compared to many other ballparks.
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                              • i know this is very rough, but i just drew it up quick. they should do something like at tiger stadium preserve dugout to dugout.
                                Attached Files
                                Last edited by yankees650B; 04-02-2009, 01:00 PM.

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