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  • Originally posted by Pinstripes View Post
    As much as some Yankee fans want to think it's the same thing as Wrigley or Fenway, it's not.
    Is that so?

    Do you think for an instant that Fenway looks anything like it did in 1912?

    It doesn't.

    The renovation done by Yawkey in the 1930s was much more significant than that done on YS. (Not to mention what has been done to Fenway since.)

    I'm not going to rehash all the arguments that have been presented here, but, regardless of what you choose to believe, Yankee Stadium is essentially the same structure it's been since 1936.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by NYFan1stYankFan2nd View Post
      Draw your own conclusions:
      It sure looks like in the original blue print that second deck (one above field level) was also heavily modified. The computer drawn model doesn't appear to show this modification at all ... The blue print looks like the original deck was removed or substantially modified and two decks put in its place .... Nor does it show a right angle structure built at the back of the field level ... The only thing that is remaing that looks original is the backbone of the stadum, the upper deck and part of the field level ... All seem, with possibly the exception of the backbone seem to have been substantially modifed .....
      Last edited by NunuMet; 10-04-2008, 08:24 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by NunuMet View Post
        It sure looks like in the original blue print that second deck (one above field level) was also heavily modified. The computer drawn model doesn't appear to show this modification at all ... The blue print looks like the original deck was removed or substantially modified and two decks put in its place

        What the blueprint shows *may or may not* have actually been carried out. Those faded blueprints probably dated from the late 60s and are very likely only conceptual. It's hard to know just exactly what the profile is at that point - a point probably behind HP. The "upper" middle deck contain's Steinie's offices, the press accommodations(at the front edge) and some luxury boxes.

        .... Nor does it show a right angle structure built at the back of the field level ...

        ??? Please indicate what "right angle structure" you are referring to.

        The only thing that is remaing that looks original is the backbone of the stadum, the upper deck and part of the field level ... All seem, with possibly the exception of the backbone seem to have been substantially modifed .....
        My "CAT scan" is actually a composite of slices taken through different sections of that grandstand. So the deck "between" the loge and the upper deck represents the area behind HP, where as the loge itself and the upper deck would represent a slice taken from the 1B or 3B side of the building. And of course on the third diagram(post 1976) you *know* what the structure is outside the stadium! Hideous access towers!

        See my inserts in YANKEE BLUE above.
        Last edited by NYFan1stYankFan2nd; 10-04-2008, 08:44 AM.
        RYS to NYS: "Obi-Lonn never told you what happened to your father."

        NYS: "He told me enough. He told me you killed him - in the 1970s!!"

        RYS: "No, I am your father..."

        NYS: "No, it's not true, that's impossible!!!!"

        RYS: "Look beyond my respirator pods and my upper crown; you know it to be true!

        Comment


        • Nunu, can you tell the difference between black and blue?
          Except for the columns supporting the mezzanine and upper deck, and the roof, nothing has been removed. 85-90% of the structure is original.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by David Atkatz View Post
            Nunu, can you tell the difference between black and blue?
            Except for the columns supporting the mezzanine and upper deck, and the roof, nothing has been removed. 85-90% of the structure is original.
            Well, internally, additional diagonal bracing looks to have been added to the upper interior of the original upper deck - ostensibly to enhance rigidity since in the final refit it would be left "hanging out" there, with columns no longer.
            RYS to NYS: "Obi-Lonn never told you what happened to your father."

            NYS: "He told me enough. He told me you killed him - in the 1970s!!"

            RYS: "No, I am your father..."

            NYS: "No, it's not true, that's impossible!!!!"

            RYS: "Look beyond my respirator pods and my upper crown; you know it to be true!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by David Atkatz View Post
              Nunu, can you tell the difference between black and blue?
              Except for the columns supporting the mezzanine and upper deck, and the roof, nothing has been removed. 85-90% of the structure is original.
              Look at the scanned blue print and carefully compare to the black and blue drawing ... The OP clarified (thank you) what the details in his scan were .... There are differences though ... The second deck doesn't meet up to the stadium in the same place .... The black and blue drawing is different from the blueprint and doesn't show the middle decks the same at all ...

              And just like the OP replied ... it's hard to tell becaue the blueprint doesnt show "may or may not" have been carried out during the renovation.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by NYFan1stYankFan2nd View Post
                Well, internally, additional diagonal bracing looks to have been added to the upper interior of the original upper deck - ostensibly to enhance rigidity since in the final refit it would be left "hanging out" there, with columns no longer.
                Lots has been added. Very little has been removed.

                And that's the whole point.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by NunuMet View Post
                  Look at the scanned blue print and carefully compare to the black and blue drawing ... The OP clarified (thank you) what the details in his scan were .... There are differences though ... The second deck doesn't meet up to the stadium in the same place .... The black and blue drawing is different from the blueprint and doesn't show the middle decks the same at all ...

                  Actually, my drawing shows the correct loge for most of the stadium - that is, from just before 1B extending out to RF and from just before 3B and extending out to RF. What I admittedly was not able to render fully was the middle section as it exists post 1976 BEHIND home plate. perhaps those who have sat in those decks could offer some input thankyou very much.
                  And just like the OP replied ... it's hard to tell becaue the blueprint doesnt show "may or may not" have been carried out during the renovation.
                  See image below corresponding to my insert above.
                  Attached Files
                  RYS to NYS: "Obi-Lonn never told you what happened to your father."

                  NYS: "He told me enough. He told me you killed him - in the 1970s!!"

                  RYS: "No, I am your father..."

                  NYS: "No, it's not true, that's impossible!!!!"

                  RYS: "Look beyond my respirator pods and my upper crown; you know it to be true!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by NYFan1stYankFan2nd View Post
                    See image below corresponding to my insert above.
                    That helps ... The "right angle structure" i was talking abour looks like it maybe those seats that are raised up in the back of the field level ... A minor addition for sure ....

                    Thanks for the pic!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by NunuMet View Post
                      That helps ... The "right angle structure" i was talking abour looks like it maybe those seats that are raised up in the back of the field level ... A minor addition for sure ....

                      Thanks for the pic!
                      The raised area in the back of the Field Level was added less than 10 years ago to comply with the Handicap Disability Act.
                      I mentioned in a previous thread that last year when I toured Yankee Stadium I was in one of the Suites in the Loge Level and you could see the remnants of the Old Pillars in the Front Rows. Others have posted photos of the location of the Pillars with Aluminum caps throughout the Original Loge Level in the Existing Yankee Stadium.
                      Last edited by YankeeStadium1923; 10-04-2008, 01:01 PM.
                      Yankee Stadium 1923-2008

                      Avid fan of the greatest Stadium ever built! Both in beauty and aesthetics throughout its long Glorious history.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by David Atkatz View Post
                        Is that so?
                        Yes, it is, based on what I feel is important in determining my own personal historical preservation value of a building, venue, or stadium.

                        Do you think for an instant that Fenway looks anything like it did in 1912?
                        Well, actually, that's not really relevant to my point. I'm speaking more from the standpoint of both Yankee Stadium and Fenway's "golden years", which probably didn't truly begin until the 50s, at which time most major modifications to both "original" stadiums had been completed. I'm talking about the Fenway/Yankee Stadium that most people should remember, the forms that the Stadiums held for long periods of time. Not simply 10-15 year periods during their initial construction.

                        The renovation done by Yawkey in the 1930s was much more significant than that done on YS. (Not to mention what has been done to Fenway since.)
                        In the 30s, fine. But that means that Fenway has remained, for the most part, unchanged in ambience since the 1930s. That's over 70 years. The same can not by ANY means be said about the look, feel, and ambience of Yankee Stadium. Aside from the roof seats added around Fenway, and a small bullpen wall in RF, it's still quite the same in terms of the overall look, general field layout, dimensions, wall structure, etc, based on every picture I've ever seen of Fenway during the 40s, 50s, 60s.

                        Yankee Stadium, visually, changed infinitely more than Fenway. The ambience of YS couldn't have been more disturbed/changed by the facelift.

                        All of these pictures are from the Yankee Stadium pre renovation thread:






                        The "cavelike" feel of the upper deck, the large imposing roof as opposed to the stubby little roof now, the prominent metal frieze, the short outfield walls, the colors, the "ribbing" along the loge, the light towers instead of the light "bands" that exist now, bleachers that go all the way down to the field, the beams all around, the "open" area behind the LF loge where you can see out to the large open windows... It's not just about still having a similar deck structure. I don't care that architecturally the stadium is similar "inside". The look and feel of the interior of the staduim just is miles away from what it used to be.

                        Sure, things have changed at Fenway (mostly the additional roof seating), but Yankee Stadium was butchered in a way that Wrigley or Fenway have never come close to, especially not since the 50s.

                        This is all just opinion. I personally feel that the most important aspects of the stadium - the things that most directly impact the feel of a ballpark - changed significantly since the 1940s/50s, whereas Fenway has changed (in that particular regard) very little since. If you can show me such dramatically different views of Fenway from the 1950s like the pictures I've posted here of Yankee Stadium, then perhaps I'll reconsider.

                        If you believe that Yankee Stadium maintained a majority of the same feel for the past 60 years, that's fine. I guess depending on what's important to you about the ambience of a stadium, that's certainly possible. I just don't see it, and no blueprints or schematics are going to convince me that watching a game at Yankee Stadium in 1950 is anywhere remotely similar to watching a game at Yankee Stadium in 2009, crowds and prices aside.
                        New York Yankees
                        New York Rangers
                        New York Giants

                        Comment


                        • Yankee Stadium Demolition

                          Jimmyjimjimz:

                          In years past when describing a city, ship or building, i.e. Yankee Stadium, it was common to call one "she". The old saying, "A thing of beauty, is a joy forever", comes to mind. IMO it sounds a bit creepy to describe Yankee Stadium as "he".

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Pinstripes View Post
                            All of these pictures are from the Yankee Stadium pre renovation thread:




                            I just don't see it, and no blueprints or schematics are going to convince me that watching a game at Yankee Stadium in 1950 is anywhere remotely similar to watching a game at Yankee Stadium in 2009, crowds and prices aside.
                            And that, Pinstripes, is why I included the phrase "Draw your own conclusions" along with the blueprints and my renderings.

                            I'm openly leaving it up to the viewer to decide just how much has changed, literally and figuratively. I for one regret never having sat a game in the 1973 or early version of YS(I'd have been only three at the time of that final season anyway). I'm trying to present, as objectively as possible, the frame revisions that took place in the mid-70s.
                            Last edited by NYFan1stYankFan2nd; 10-05-2008, 06:20 AM. Reason: I can't open and close "quotes" worth a crap..
                            RYS to NYS: "Obi-Lonn never told you what happened to your father."

                            NYS: "He told me enough. He told me you killed him - in the 1970s!!"

                            RYS: "No, I am your father..."

                            NYS: "No, it's not true, that's impossible!!!!"

                            RYS: "Look beyond my respirator pods and my upper crown; you know it to be true!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by NYFan1stYankFan2nd View Post
                              And that, Pinstripes, is why I included the phrase "Draw your own conclusions" along with the blueprints and my renderings.

                              I'm openly leaving it up to the viewer to decide just how much has changed, literally and figuratively. I for one regret never having sat a game in the 1973 or early version of YS(I'd have been only three at the time of that final season anyway). I'm trying to present, as objectively as possible, the frame revisions that took place in the mid-70s.
                              Oh absolutely - and I wasn't suggesting your post was of no value or anything like that. To many, I'm sure, the fact that much of the original steel or structural elements remained in tact is reason enough to want to preserve Yankee Stadium.

                              I do feel, however, that most people would agree, and it's my opinion anyway, that the Stadium lost much of its original character in the renovation. I do not believe it's as worthy of historical preservation like some other venues and buildings are, because of that lost character.

                              I'd just like to point out that I'm a die hard Yankee fan (have been my whole life) and I will definitely miss the stadium as a place that holds so many memories for me (both in person and on television), but I don't feel enough of a historical attachment to what it looks like now to want it to be preserved.
                              New York Yankees
                              New York Rangers
                              New York Giants

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Pinstripes View Post
                                Yes, it is, based on what I feel is important in determining my own personal historical preservation value of a building, venue, or stadium.

                                Well, actually, that's not really relevant to my point. I'm speaking more from the standpoint of both Yankee Stadium and Fenway's "golden years", which probably didn't truly begin until the 50s, at which time most major modifications to both "original" stadiums had been completed. I'm talking about the Fenway/Yankee Stadium that most people should remember, the forms that the Stadiums held for long periods of time. Not simply 10-15 year periods during their initial construction.

                                In the 30s, fine. But that means that Fenway has remained, for the most part, unchanged in ambience since the 1930s. That's over 70 years. The same can not by ANY means be said about the look, feel, and ambience of Yankee Stadium. Aside from the roof seats added around Fenway, and a small bullpen wall in RF, it's still quite the same in terms of the overall look, general field layout, dimensions, wall structure, etc, based on every picture I've ever seen of Fenway during the 40s, 50s, 60s.

                                Yankee Stadium, visually, changed infinitely more than Fenway. The ambience of YS couldn't have been more disturbed/changed by the facelift.

                                All of these pictures are from the Yankee Stadium pre renovation thread:






                                The "cavelike" feel of the upper deck, the large imposing roof as opposed to the stubby little roof now, the prominent metal frieze, the short outfield walls, the colors, the "ribbing" along the loge, the light towers instead of the light "bands" that exist now, bleachers that go all the way down to the field, the beams all around, the "open" area behind the LF loge where you can see out to the large open windows... It's not just about still having a similar deck structure. I don't care that architecturally the stadium is similar "inside". The look and feel of the interior of the staduim just is miles away from what it used to be.

                                Sure, things have changed at Fenway (mostly the additional roof seating), but Yankee Stadium was butchered in a way that Wrigley or Fenway have never come close to, especially not since the 50s.

                                This is all just opinion. I personally feel that the most important aspects of the stadium - the things that most directly impact the feel of a ballpark - changed significantly since the 1940s/50s, whereas Fenway has changed (in that particular regard) very little since. If you can show me such dramatically different views of Fenway from the 1950s like the pictures I've posted here of Yankee Stadium, then perhaps I'll reconsider.

                                If you believe that Yankee Stadium maintained a majority of the same feel for the past 60 years, that's fine. I guess depending on what's important to you about the ambience of a stadium, that's certainly possible. I just don't see it, and no blueprints or schematics are going to convince me that watching a game at Yankee Stadium in 1950 is anywhere remotely similar to watching a game at Yankee Stadium in 2009, crowds and prices aside.
                                Fenway has changed significantly over its lifetime. They've, in effect, added two more decks to the stadium. Its current look is quite different from the original:
                                Attached Files
                                First Game- Twinight DH, Mets vs. Cards at Shea, August 22, 1965

                                Comment

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