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Worst parks you've seen a game in

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  • #31
    Originally posted by ElHalo
    Greatness, in my view, is something that can only be perceived in retrospect, with the sheen of years behind it. I'll put it this way:
    lotsa folks believe that pujols is already a great player.
    "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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    • #32
      Originally posted by The Real McCoy
      West Coast O&B: I will always concede a point to superior local insight. But, if that night was "not so bad" I'd hate to be around when it did get "bad".
      yes, you would have hated it, trm.
      thanx for swappin'.
      "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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      • #33
        Originally posted by ElHalo
        Very often, we can't see what's in front of us without a telescope. It's only after years of review and time for reality to set in that we can know the truth of things.
        how true, eh. but at times the "very often" does not apply.
        pac bell, in my book, became an instant classic and great the first time that the turnstiles started counting.
        "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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        • #34
          Originally posted by The Real McCoy
          West Coast O&B: I will always concede a point to superior local insight. But, if that night was "not so bad" I'd hate to be around when it did get "bad". I'm going to make the assumpiton that the same architectural geniuses that put the Busch Stadium field below street level also had a hand in designing Candlestick's configuration so it faced into the wind.

          I did go to the new park in San Francisco four or five years ago and thought it was great, with a minor caveat. I'm sitting in the first row, club level between first and home and a foul ball comes twisting towards us. I stand and see that it will fall just short of our seats and sit down. A kid, seated next to us, feels compelled to point out that "you cudda got that one, mister, if you had leaned over the railing." After I finished pointing out that my days of "leaning over the railing", from an upper box, ended about the time Mays retired, I thought about the "youth wasted on the young" line, but held my tongue and thought of Tom Stoppard's line "age is a very high price to pay for maturity."
          Actually, perhaps one Mr. Walter O'Malley had a hand in the design of Candlestick Park.It has been written that he brought Stoneham there early in the day before the winds blow to convince him that this was the right site.I'm sure Walter wanted to make sure the Giants new park was just perfect.
          Lets get Eddie Basinski elected to the Polish Sports Hall of Fame.
          www.brooklyndodgermemories.com

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          • #35
            RFK and the cookie cutters

            I LIKE the cookie cutter stadiums. To me, they make the game more intimate.
            I've been to many "open" stadiums and people seem distracted all the time on other things than baseball. They pay all that money and spend an overwhelming amount of time dealing with food, talking, drinks ( and then going to the restrooms) and what other fans are doing that's not related to baseball.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by larryalan
              I LIKE the cookie cutter stadiums. To me, they make the game more intimate.
              I've been to many "open" stadiums and people seem distracted all the time on other things than baseball. They pay all that money and spend an overwhelming amount of time dealing with food, talking, drinks ( and then going to the restrooms) and what other fans are doing that's not related to baseball.
              I would have to say you are in the minority. All of the distractions you mention are part of todays lifestyle, and occur in the cookie cutters as well. The old Classic ballparks had basic ballpark food Hot Dogs, peanuts and drinks and people went to see the ballgame.
              Lets get Eddie Basinski elected to the Polish Sports Hall of Fame.
              www.brooklyndodgermemories.com

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              • #37
                The Big O is wrongly judged using parameters for today. It was the finest "cookie-cutter" in an age of cookie cutter parks. Great sitelines, huge concourses, good legroom, easy access, lots of private boxes when there was no such thing, pretty good food and very passionate fans. Busch looks fantastic with grass and the makeover, so much so that fans petitioned to keep it.

                Exhibition Stadium in Toronto was truly awful, covered grandstand only in left field and most seat parallel to the base lines facing away from the infield (it was primarily a football stadium). It's replacement Skydome (with no "the" and now a bland sounding "Rogers Centre" - sounds like a mall or something) was, like New Comiskey, woefully obsolete a couple years after it was built when Camden Yards came along. EXTREMELY tight seating and an upper deck so steep and far from the action, that you can't tell if it's a pop-fly or ground ball unless you see the ball skip. Routine pop-outs to short look like certain home runs. It's what you get when you commission architects who've NEVER BUILT A BASEBALL PARK to design your park. Truly awful.
                Montreal Expos 1981 NL East Champions, 1994 National League Champions - MLB Champions

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                • #38
                  I've been to some bad stadiums that hosted MLB games (Olympic Stadium, Hiram Bithorn Stadium in San Juan). But the worst was the Kingdome. The first time I saw it was from the air when I was landing at the airport. I was shocked by its ugliness. It didnt look any better close-up. Inside was just as bad. People have said 'if you like concrete, you'll love the Kingdome'. And there was the year where the tiles started falling off the roof and they had to close the stadium. And there was virtually no parking near the stadium. I cant think of any redeeming quality that it had. As bad as Olympic was (cant believe anyone actually thinks it was the BEST of the cookie-cutters), at least it was in a nice part of town. See the other thread for my critique of Hiram Bithorn. The former 'Skydome' is another unattractive park. I havent been to either the Metrodome or Tropicana but I believe that those are as bad as people say they are.

                  Actually, most of the MLB parks I've been to (and I've been to most of them) I thought were at least OK.

                  My comments on some of the earlier posts:

                  - Shea may not be the greatest ballpark, but it does have the 2 essential qualities of a good baseball park: it has natural grass and it is completely open. That is enough to keep it off of my 'worst' list. And parking was convenient. The time I went, I didnt sit in the upper deck, so I dont know about that.

                  - US Cellular Field (WhiteSox) is another much-maligned stadium that I didnt think was that bad. It's pretty plain and uninteresting, but not bad, IMO. Everyone comments about the upper deck. I sat in the upper deck when I went and I didnt really consider the steepness noteworthy. The upper decks of most stadiums are steep.

                  - I saw a game at Candlestick. I thought that park was fine also, altho I went on a Sunday afternoon, and I didnt experience the cold or the wind.

                  - Oakland's park used to be lovely before they enclosed it for football. Now, it's much less attractive, but still not bad.

                  - To me, Busch Stadium is by far the best of the 'cookie-cutter' parks. It really is one of my favorites. Just a lovely stadium in a nice downtown location. The pattern of the stadium rim is both distinguishing and aesthetic. I went in May and I dont remember it being unbearably hot. I'm sorry that this will be its last year. Busch is a good example that, even tho the cookie-cutters as a whole were not that great, you have to judge each park on its own. I like the new 'retro' parks, but to me Petco in San Diego is not a good example of these and is not as attactive a park as Busch, IMO.

                  Also, Dolphins Stadium (formerly ProPlayer) is another one worth mentioning. It's located far from downtown Miami, in a residential area. Apparently, its site was chosen because it is at the intersection of 2 major highways. Otherwise, it seems very curious place to put a ballpark. It's basically out in the middle of nowhere. It has artificial turf, which always seemed strange to me because it is not a domed stadium and is in a warm climate that gets lots of rain. The left field wall is the strangest in MLB. Seemingly, there's no rhyme or reason to its configuration. Bascially, it's a football stadium not well-suited for baseball. One good thing about it was that parking was very convenient. Only took me a couple minutes to get from my car to the box office. Of course, if only 10,000 people come to the game, parking should be a breeze. I'm glad to hear that they're apparently going to get a new stadium there. It shouldnt be hard to for it to be an improvement.
                  Last edited by rhd; 02-15-2005, 03:51 AM.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by rhd

                    Also, Dolphins Stadium (formerly ProPlayer) is another one worth mentioning. It's located far from downtown Miami, in a residential area. Apparently, its site was chosen because it is at the intersection of 2 major highways. Otherwise, it seems very curious place to put a ballpark. It's basically out in the middle of nowhere. It has artificial turf, which always seemed strange to me because it is not a domed stadium and is in a warm climate that gets lots of rain. The left field wall is the strangest in MLB. Seemingly, there's no rhyme or reason to its configuration. Bascially, it's a football stadium not well-suited for baseball. One good thing about it was that parking was very convenient. Only took me a couple minutes to get from my car to the box office. Of course, if only 10,000 people come to the game, parking should be a breeze. I'm glad to hear that they're apparently going to get a new stadium there. It shouldnt be hard to for it to be an improvement.
                    I just looked up Dolphins Stadium. It has PAT which is perscription athletic turf, which is natrual grass. It was among the first stadiums to use PAT, which is basically grass on an entirely sand base field and drains very easily and must be irrigated no matter the climate. When I was taking "Athletic Truf Management " classes at Cal Poly Pomona (one of the leaders in Ornamental Horticulture BTW), there was a lot of excitement regarding PAT and many fields today use PAT or some variation of a sand based soil to plan their turf.
                    http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/ex...eline_1961.jpg

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                    • #40
                      wogdoggy, I'm sorry to say, but you have no idea what you are talking about.
                      Wrigley Field is the greatest place to watch a ballgame (if that is what you do at ballgames). So many of these new parks are more shopping malls than they are baseball stadiums. Wrigley has the greatest atmosphere of any ballpark. The food is great, unless you prefer fine dining at your baseball games. Every single fan is into the game. I've been to so many games in which every fan in the crowd is either cheering simultaneously or booing.

                      And who can't like it when an ump like Angel Hernandez blows such an easy call and the singer of the 7th inning stretch boos him. Then Hernandez motioned up to the WGN booth, saying, GET HIM OUT OF HERE. Cubs fans are the greatest fans, we don't have to go around disrespecting other fans, like wogdoggy seems to love to do.

                      So what if Wrigley's concrete fell TWICE. The nets they put up don't distract from the game and can only be seen if you look straight up. There are only two bad things at Wrigley, those evil old people in the red shirts (the Wrigley workers) that couldn't get any more stubborn. And, the bathroom lines are pretty long. But other than that, Wrigley IS BASEBALL.
                      A lot of people say this honor validates my career, but I didn't work hard for validation. I didn't play the game right because I saw a reward at the end of the tunnel. I played it right because that's what you're supposed to do, play it right and with respect. If this validates anything, it's that learning how to bunt and hit and run and turning two is more important than knowing where to find the little red light at the dug out camera. - Ryne Sandberg

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                      • #41
                        From what I heard about Wrigley from a friend is it is more of a happy hour at the stadium, an event and the game is in the background.

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                        • #42
                          There's a good book called "Green Cathedrals". Somewhere in there they mention that Candlestick wasn't nearly as windy when it was simply a baseball stadium with open outfield. When it was enclosed for football, they continued the sort of "curved" roof all the way around which ended up scooping the wind in. Ironically, it is said to be much more pleasant in the football season. They also put in huge boilers and miles and miles of piping to heat the stands (outdoor radiant heat). It failed instantly and was never repaired...
                          Montreal Expos 1981 NL East Champions, 1994 National League Champions - MLB Champions

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ElHalo
                            Greatness, in my view, is something that can only be perceived in retrospect, with the sheen of years behind it. I'll put it this way: In 1999, Ken Griffey Jr. was voted onto the All Century team, ahead of the likes of Stan Musial and Tris Speaker. Oh, and Barry Bonds wasn't even considered. Six years later, that seems absolutely mind boggling. In the 1890's, the World's Fair Exposition Center in Chicago was considred the greatest architectural masterpiece of the century, far outstripping the Eiffel Tower, erected in Paris a few years before. To the baseball observers of that time, the greatest player in the game was Centerfielder Bill Lange, easily the superior of left fielder Ed Delehanty.

                            Very often, we can't see what's in front of us without a telescope. It's only after years of review and time for reality to set in that we can know the truth of things. Perhaps the newer parks might grow into the title of greatness in time. But they haven't yet.
                            I think you are right. Griffey over Musial or Speaker? Even in 1999, I thoughht that was riidiculous. Right up with the Indians fans choosing Roberto Alomar as the Indians all-century second baseman.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by section522
                              ...they mention that Candlestick wasn't nearly as windy when it was simply a baseball stadium with open outfield. When it was enclosed for football, they continued the sort of "curved" roof all the way around which ended up scooping the wind in.

                              Ironically, it is said to be much more pleasant in the football season.

                              They also put in huge boilers and miles and miles of piping to heat the stands (outdoor radiant heat). It failed instantly and was never repaired...
                              they're right.

                              they're wrong. dead wrong.

                              the lower box seating heating system was a pipe dream, true.
                              "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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                              • #45
                                On the radiant heat, they were going to attempt it again, 40 years later, at Labatt Park in Montreal.....probably could have made it work (at least, have warm liquid flow through the floor) with all the radiant in-floor heat common today. Now, whether it would've warmed the patrons.........?
                                Montreal Expos 1981 NL East Champions, 1994 National League Champions - MLB Champions

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