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1923 Polo Grounds 3D

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  • #76
    Lot to cartch up on-----will be posting some stuff soon! Thanks!!!!!!!!

    Comment


    • #77
      OK-----was contacted by a viewer with a backgrounfd in engineering who informed me that the girder assmeblies were slightly off-----all the trusses are 2 L shapes back to back, with the gussetts in between the L's, not on one side like I had. Also the verticals are also 2 L shapes back to back and the rivets are on both sides--so I've re worked them-----my only question now is did YS have the same. Did some work on the CF clubhouse.
      Attached Files

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      • #78
        Re: The CF clubhouse:

        centerfield.png

        Also, The two bays on either side of the column behind the Eddie Grant memorial lead to roll up doors that allow patrons to exit the PG. You might be able to see that in one of the earlier pictures I posted that had to do with an internal inspection around that area.
        Last edited by JOVE23; 11-21-2011, 02:27 PM.

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        • #79
          I have tried to measure the dimensions of the clubhouse using this image so that we can get some more accuracy.

          According to my estimates, the clubhouse is 60 feet across and 45 feet deep. Please feel free to use the survey tools on the website to double check my measurements.

          Comment


          • #80
            JOVE23-----will adjust clubhouse tomorrow--am having a real hard time figuring out stands-----created UD and LD straightaways and wrap arounds----maybe then can start cutting away. Also, straightaway sectiond seem to be all different sizes.
            Attached Files

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            • #81
              IMHO, While this work on modeling the Polo Grounds is interesting, it is diverting Bkhockey3 from the more important job of finishing up the 1923 Yankee Stadium model. Keep in mind what the impetus was for this Polo Grounds project. It was simply to have a representation of the PG in the far off landscape viewable from YS. Again IMHO, it is not necessary to have every rivet in the authentic position to accomplish this intended purpose. In this case, a rough sketch would suffice. Once the YS project is done, you can easily go back and refine the PG.

              I guess another question I have is what will be output when the YS model is completed? Will you be able to produce animated fly throughs? (Although that's probabaly a question better suited for the YS thread)
              First Game- Twinight DH, Mets vs. Cards at Shea, August 22, 1965

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              • #82
                Originally posted by bkhockey3 View Post
                am having a real hard time figuring out stands-----created UD and LD straightaways and wrap arounds----maybe then can start cutting away. Also, straightaway sectiond seem to be all different sizes.
                The UD parts of the straightaways should be mostly identical to the horshoe, but the LD parts should indeed be significantly different. On both sides, the LD should end in the back at the same point as the UD (though RF would have those ramps behind that point, originally unroofed, but later with steep roof added) instead of having 8 more tiers in the back as the horshoe part of the LD does.

                In the front, each side is different again; the LF straightaway ends at the front support column (shorter than the UD which overhangs it), while in RF, I think it may end directly under the UD, but I may be wrong about that.

                Oh, and that finished girder render looks beautiful!

                Comment


                • #83
                  JE----am gonna tread slowly with the stands--wanna try and avoid re doig stuff.
                  CHiller-----YS is probably 95% done, with still some neighborhood issues. Still wanna finish it all before I again try to animate it. I think I can finish the Polo Grounds in a relatively short time----once I get the stands correct.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by bkhockey3 View Post
                    JE----am gonna tread slowly with the stands--wanna try and avoid re doig stuff.
                    CHiller-----YS is probably 95% done, with still some neighborhood issues. Still wanna finish it all before I again try to animate it. I think I can finish the Polo Grounds in a relatively short time----once I get the stands correct.
                    Your work is absolutely amazing! I'm really enjoying following your reconstruction of old Yankee Stadium, and now the Polo Grounds. I've been to both places, and it brings back a lot of great memories.

                    Here are two good shots of the odd configuration of the right field stands for your reference. Keep up the great work!



                    "Chef Bill"
                    Boynton Beach, Florida

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                    • #85
                      what is the reason for that funky configuration? I've always been amazed by it but never really knew why it was like that.....

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Thanks Chef Bill----that configuration is bizarre--have no idea--would love someone to explain it!
                        Am getting frustrated with the stands-----does the LD stands profile include all the LD rows? Cut the LF straightaway and am still about 3 rows past the main column. Also added the drain pipe to the metal assembly.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          A good head-on view of the clubhouse and bleachers:
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Here are some large images (definitely worth viewing in their actual size) to aid in figuring out the grandstand.

                            We can see that in RF, the extension of the upper grandstand had just begun. Find where the lion frieze ends, and note the beginning of the new construction, and that crazy zig-zag in the upper deck:







                            The LF construction was farther along, as the original LF grandstand was so short (it stopped in foul territory). Note the position of the steel columns in fair territory in relation to the playing field wall. And don't forget the overhang of the upper deck, which jutted out beyond the playing field wall (we need to have the distance of the overhang as precisely as possible).





                            For comparison, here are the original wooden bleachers, which were removed (probably starting in late 1922), and replaced by the concrete grandstand/bleacher extension we see in the 1923 renovation photos:



                            Last edited by SultanOfWhat; 11-22-2011, 02:40 PM.
                            sigpic

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by bkhockey3 View Post
                              Thanks Chef Bill----that configuration is bizarre--have no idea--would love someone to explain it!
                              Am getting frustrated with the stands-----does the LD stands profile include all the LD rows? Cut the LF straightaway and am still about 3 rows past the main column. Also added the drain pipe to the metal assembly.
                              I think this post from the Polo Grounds [all variations] thread (#290 on page 12) explains it. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's where I found the 1963 photo.

                              Originally posted by stlfan View Post
                              ...The reason why the upper deck splits like that near the left and right field corners is because the angle of the stands changes. If you look at the structure, the last row of the upper deck in the infield and the outfield until you reach the split, as well as the upper deck further in the outfield until it ends is at the same hieght. The reason they did this is that I guess they had to extend the back of the upper deck even more since the bleachers beneath them extended futher back, but they didn't want the profile of the structure to change. It would have looked funky and disjointed like when they added more upper deck at Griffith Stadium, Forbes Field and Shibe Park.
                              "Chef Bill"
                              Boynton Beach, Florida

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                              • #90
                                I thought the split was done in RF to accommodate pedestrian ramps leading into the ballpark from the subway platform.




                                This seems to be the LF split:




                                The overhang in LF:




                                Some text about the overhang (not sure if this is authoritative, but it gets the ball rolling):

                                The left-field second-deck overhang meant that a homer to left was actually easier than a homer to right, even though the wall in left was 19 feet further away - the overhang was 21 feet, effectively shortening the distance required for a pop-fly homer to the second deck in left to 249 feet because of the angle involved.

                                http://www.baseball-statistics.com/B...ks/SF/Polo.htm


                                Another bit:





                                From the PG thread, pic from 1962:





                                More from Wiki:

                                This version of the ballpark had its share of quirks. The "unofficial" distances (never marked on the wall) down the left and right field lines were 279 and 258 feet respectively, but there was a 21 foot overhang in left field, which often intercepted fly balls which would otherwise have been catchable and turned them into home runs. Contrasting with the short distances down the lines were the 450-some foot distances in the gaps, with straightaway center field 483 feet distant from home plate; the corners of the bleachers on either side of the clubhouse runway were about 425 feet. The catch that Willie Mays made in the 1954 World Series against Vic Wertz of the Cleveland Indians would have been a home run in many other ballparks of the time. The bullpens were actually in play, in the left and right center field gaps. The outfield sloped downward from the infield, and people in the dugouts often could only see the top half of the outfielders.


                                Dimensions and fence heights from the link above:


                                Baseball-statisics.com

                                New York Giants
                                Polo Grounds

                                Capacity: 54,500
                                Polo Grounds IV
                                Area of fair territory: 129,000 sq. ft.
                                Area of foul territory: Humongous


                                Fences: LF-CF: 16.8 ft to 8.5 ft
                                CF background: 30.5 ft.
                                RCF: 12 ft.
                                RF: 10.64 ft.

                                Elevation: 55 feet


                                1957 dimensions:
                                LF: 280 feet
                                LCF bullpen: 447 feet
                                CF: 480 feet
                                RCF bullpen: 440 feet
                                RF: 258 feet

                                Backstop: 74 feet


                                Who Played Here: New York Giants (NL) 1911-1957; New York Yankees (AL) 1913-1922; New York Mets (NL) 1962-1963
                                First opened: June 28, 1911
                                First night game: May 24, 1940
                                Last game: September 18, 1963
                                Capacity: 34,000 (1911); 55,000 (1923)
                                Demolished: April 10, 1964

                                Architects: Henry B. Herts and Osborn Engineering (1912)
                                Owner: New York Giants


                                Harlem, NY: Center field (SE), Eighth Avenue, then IRT elevated tracks, Harlem River, and Harlem River Drive; third base (NE), West 159th Street and IRT Rail Yards; home plate (NW), Bridge Park, then Harlem River Speedway, Coogan’s Bluff, and Croton Aqueduct; first base (SW), West 157th Street trace; same site as Polo Grounds (III); in the norther half of Coogan’s Hollow, 115 feet below Coogan’s Bluff.


                                Fences - History

                                1911-22: Left to center: 10 (concrete); center: 20 (tarp); right-center: 10 (concrete); right field: 12 sloping to 11 at pole (concrete).



                                1923-63:

                                Left field: 16.81 (concrete)
                                Left-center: 18 (concrete)
                                Where LCF wall ended at bleachers: 12 (concrete)
                                CF bleachers wall: 8.5 (4.25 wire on top of 4.25 concrete) on both sides of clubhouse runway
                                CF hitters’ background: 16.5 on both sides of clubhouse runway
                                Center-field clubhouse: 60 high and 60 wide - 50 high in 1963
                                Center field, top of Longines Clock: 80
                                Center field, top of right side of scoreboard: 71
                                CF, top of left side of scoreboard: 68
                                CF, top of middle of scoreboard: 64
                                CF, top of five right scoreboard windows: 57
                                CF, top of four left scoreboard windows: 55
                                CF, bottom of five right scoreboard windows: 53
                                CF, bottom of four left scoreboard windows: 48
                                CF, bottom of clubhouse scoreboard: 31
                                CF, top of rear clubhouse wall: 28
                                CF, top of front clubhouse wall: 19
                                CF, top of 14 lower clubhouse windows: 16
                                CF, bottom of 14 lower clubhouse windows: 11
                                CF clubhouse floor overhang: 8
                                CF, top of Eddie Grant Memorial: 5
                                CF, width of little office on top of lower clubhouse: 10;
                                Right-center: 12 (concrete)
                                Right field: 10.64 (concrete).



                                Dimensions - History

                                Left field: 277 (1911), 286.67 (1921), 279.67 (1923), 279 (1930), 280 (1943), 279 (1955) Left field, second deck: 250 ft.
                                Left center, left of bullpen: 447 ft
                                Left center, right of bullpen: 455 ft
                                Front of clubhouse steps: 460 ft

                                Center field: 433 (1911), 483 (1923), 484.75 (1927), 505 (1930), 430 (1931), 480 (1934), 430 (1938), 505 (1940), 490 (1943), 505 (1944), 448 (1945), 490 (1946), 484 (1947), 505 (1949), 483 (1952), 480 (1953), 483 (1954), 480 (1955), 475 (1962), 483 (1963)

                                Bleacher corners: 425 when center field was 475;
                                Right center, left of bullpen: 449;
                                Right center, right of bullpen: 440;
                                Right field: 256.25 (1921), 257.67 (1923), 257.5 (1931), 257.67 (1942), 259 (1943), 257.67 (1944) ft.
                                Right field, second deck photographers' perch: 249 ft.
                                Backstop: 65 (1942), 70 (1943), 65 (1944), 70 (1946), 74 (1949), 65 (1954), 74 (1955), 65 (1962)
                                Last edited by SultanOfWhat; 11-22-2011, 03:35 PM.
                                sigpic

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