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Dick Mills and Tom House

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  • Dick Mills and Tom House

    Just wondering if anyone has view the recent DVD's by these two deticated gentlemen. I chose the Tom House's DVD's and have been impressed. If anyone has the DVD series by Dick Mills and would be interseted in discussing the differences and similarities between the two, Post here and maybe we can discuss this.

  • #2
    I have purchased the Dick Mills Pitching program. A lot to digest and even harder to train. I took my son to a pitching instructor (Minor League Pitching Coach) and mentioned Dick Mills to him and he said that Mills stock went down quite a bit because of Mills son's arm injury. Mills does not advocate the use of long toss for arm strengthening and that the only way to increase pitching speed is by throwing off the mound. I’m not experienced enough to disagree with that idea, but I have been told on more than one occasion that Long Toss is very effective. So this fall my son is doing long toss and depending on the results I will be better able to evaluate Mills’ approach. The hardest thing about any program or instructor is that “their way is the only way”.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by hplant25
      Just wondering if anyone has view the recent DVD's by these two deticated gentlemen. I chose the Tom House's DVD's and have been impressed. If anyone has the DVD series by Dick Mills and would be interseted in discussing the differences and similarities between the two, Post here and maybe we can discuss this.
      Around 1995 I wanted to do serious training and wanted to know more about how to do it right. Mills' videos were the first that I bought and I tried learning and teaching by his method. 11 years later after having read other people's stuff, gone through House's coach training, and analyzed the pitching motion myself; it is MY opinion, that Mills is absolutely clueless.

      House is closer to having it figured out, but I disagree with a FEW things that he emphasizes.

      The problem with both of them is; they don't have much flexibility in how they think the motion needs to work. There are more than one way to effectively throw, and both try to lock you into what they believe are the best moves, and the only moves that work well.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by hplant25
        I chose the Tom House's DVD's and have been impressed.
        My problem with Tom House goes back to the whole Mark Prior thing.

        Back in 2003 House said that Mark Prior had "perfect" mechanics. Then Prior experienced a series of problems (due in my opinion to a number of obvious mechanical problems).

        Instead of admitting he was wrong, House instead blamed Prior's problems on...

        1. Abuse by Dusty Baker.
        2. Prior's lack of conditioning.

        I don't find either of these things to more than an excuse.
        Obsessed with Pitching Mechanics.

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        • #5
          You might want to check out Ron Wolforth as well. I have heard solid things about this program.

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          • #6
            I agree, mark prior does have very nice mechanics.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by EdmondsFan#1
              I agree, mark prior does have very nice mechanics.
              If so, then why are his mechanics different than most and why is he constantly being injured?
              Obsessed with Pitching Mechanics.

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              • #8
                Well, since 1995 Mills changed his whole approach to pitching. Things like long toss, weighted balls, there is no scientific evidence that it works. He advocates the Principle of Specificity in sports science. An example:

                "The idea of doing something different in practice (flat ground pitching or long toss) as opposed to what is done in a game (pitching from the mound) violates the Principle of Specificity in sports science. This must be applied to all sports not just baseball.

                We should all ask ourselves the question: If you don't pitch from the mound how will the body understand how to develop the required specific fitness of transferring the pitcher's weight downhill. When will the pitcher's body, legs, hips, abdominal muscles, learn from specific training how to provide that specific training effect? Only through the Principle Of Overload which means you must practice several blocks of that skill in order to train the body to gain that specific fitness to do it over and over. " - Dick Mills

                He has a book out titled: 'The Science And Art Of Baseball Pitching ', you should check it out. Go to a Barnes and Noble and read through some stuff
                While I do prefer to interact with people in a gentle manner... I'm also not at all opposed to establishing my dominance in a reign of terror.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chris O'Leary
                  If so, then why are his mechanics different than most and why is he constantly being injured?
                  I don't know i'm not as smart as you . I just think he has good mechanics, which is why he has success even though he got injured. Fransico Lariano does the same thing he does i think and they are both great pitchers, I think they were just unfortunate enough to get injured. Also, how is it that having the elbow above the shoulder puts unneccisary shoulder stress which causes rotator cuff injuries when fransisco is out on a elbow injury. So how are you sure that is what injured him?


                  Also, i think he has good mechanics becuase he pretty much does the exact thing i do, and when i concentrate i have very good control and good velocity. And i'm also completely painless after pitching 4 times that last 5 days at a total of probably 200 pitches combined.

                  Just a thought, but i visit your blogs alot though, keep up the nice work. (The arm is the only thing i disagree with.)

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                  • #10
                    My criticsm of the Tom House instructors that I have encountered is that they over-emphasize the ability to release the ball out in front...at the expense of athleticism, imo. In order to accomplish the goal of releasing the ball as close as possible towards home plate, their pitchers restrict their trunk rotation, and, therfore, athleticism.

                    And who uses their glove side like that, except for House students?...it's not a natural nor efficient motion....

                    My criticism of House himself is that he claims to be well-researched and scientific, but his research seems to take only his ptichers and students into account. In other words, he'll claim that the model for pitchers is to 'move their glove a certain way, this is most efficient', but in fact he has studied this only from his own talent pool and not from the larger sample of pitchers as a whole...
                    Last edited by FindAGap12; 10-03-2006, 09:33 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Pitcher's Bible

                      Originally posted by jbooth
                      Around 1995 I wanted to do serious training and wanted to know more about how to do it right. Mills' videos were the first that I bought and I tried learning and teaching by his method. 11 years later after having read other people's stuff, gone through House's coach training, and analyzed the pitching motion myself; it is MY opinion, that Mills is absolutely clueless.

                      House is closer to having it figured out, but I disagree with a FEW things that he emphasizes.

                      The problem with both of them is; they don't have much flexibility in how they think the motion needs to work. There are more than one way to effectively throw, and both try to lock you into what they believe are the best moves, and the only moves that work well.
                      Where do you rate Nolan Ryan's Pitcher's Bible with these guys programs?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by XFactor
                        Weighted balls, there is no scientific evidence that it works.

                        He advocates the Principle of Specificity in sports science. An example:
                        "The idea of doing something different in practice (flat ground pitching or long toss) as opposed to what is done in a game (pitching from the mound) violates the Principle of Specificity in sports science. This must be applied to all sports not just baseball.
                        There is plenty of scientific evidence that weighted balls and weighted bats have an effect--sometimes the effect is positive and sometimes negative. It depends on how heavy or light the weighted implement is. The National Strength and Conditioning Association has numerous research articles on weighted balls and bats as training implements in baseball. I suggest you take your own advice and seek out the NSCA's 2 journals and do some reading.

                        Also, while I agree that the principle of specificity is very important in training for any sport, whole body general training is also very important. In my opinion, the power clean is the number one exercise that ANY athlete can perform to improve explosive lower body power. But how often do you see a pitcher do a power clean on the mound? There may be components of it, but it is not "skill-specific." Again, do some reading on the 2 sides of training. I believe you have to include general training and sport-specific training to be a complete athlete.
                        MAXX Training - the latest on sports training & athletic performance! www.maxxtraining.com

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by EdmondsFan#1
                          Also, how is it that having the elbow above the shoulder puts unneccisary shoulder stress which causes rotator cuff injuries when fransisco is out on a elbow injury. So how are you sure that is what injured him?
                          I believe that it either causes the PAS upper arm to externally rotate too much and may cause something called an impingement injury in which the mucles of the rotator cuff rub up against the bones of the shoulder.

                          Liriano is currently out with an elbow problem, but also has had a series of shoulder problems.

                          I believe that doing what they do with their elbows may also lead to elbow problems by increasing the force that is placed on the joint.
                          Obsessed with Pitching Mechanics.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FindAGap12
                            My criticsm of the Tom House instructors that I have encountered is that they over-emphasize the ability to release the ball out in front...at the expense of athleticism, imo. In order to accomplish the goal of releasing the ball as close as possible towards home plate, their pitchers restrict their trunk rotation, and, therfore, athleticism.
                            I completely agree.

                            They also lower their release point.
                            Obsessed with Pitching Mechanics.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chris O'Leary
                              I believe that it either causes the PAS upper arm to externally rotate too much and may cause something called an impingement injury in which the mucles of the rotator cuff rub up against the bones of the shoulder.

                              Liriano is currently out with an elbow problem, but also has had a series of shoulder problems.

                              I believe that doing what they do with their elbows may also lead to elbow problems by increasing the force that is placed on the joint.
                              With the elbow below the shoulder if you throw over hand or 3/4 you are not going to get nearly as much velocity though. I actually had elbow problems when i did throw below the shoulder, and ever since i have switched i haven't had an injury. And i'm pitching more.

                              And about the rotator cuff thing, throwing 3/4 and overhand have the same affect, injuries can occur becuase the rotator cuff is able to rotate 7000 degrees in less then a second or something.

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