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  • Inverted W

    This kid on my summer baseball team does the inverted w, almost like anthony reyes. He was throwing in the mid to high 80s, however, with little to medium control.

    However, he is only about 5'4, and 105lbs. Does the inverted w, make you throw that hard?

    I thought that the inverted w, also caused injury. (he was constantly moving his arm up and down, holding his elbow)

  • #2
    I don't know what the inverted W is.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by RagArm View Post
      I don't know what the inverted W is.
      Chris O'Leary has done some work on this check this out - http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/...ic_200704.html

      It should give you an idea...
      "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
      - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

      Comment


      • #4
        Ah. Never heard it called that.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by RagArm View Post
          Ah. Never heard it called that.
          By the way most agree the inverted M and W are bad for younger pitchers.
          "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
          - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
          Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

          Comment


          • #6
            I don't particularly like it because it seem to me that it would put massive stress on the shoulder and elbow. I have no evidence to back that up though.

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm sure there are other things going on that make him throw that hard, but yes it can help, but yes it does put more strain on the shoulder area

              However, if the elbow is below shoulder height, it lessens the danger
              While I do prefer to interact with people in a gentle manner... I'm also not at all opposed to establishing my dominance in a reign of terror.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by RagArm View Post
                I don't particularly like it because it seem to me that it would put massive stress on the shoulder and elbow. I have no evidence to back that up though.
                Yes it does.

                It's also not necessary to throwing well or hard.

                You DO NOT see the M/Inverted W in the mechanics of...

                - Nolan Ryan
                - Randy Johnson
                - Roger Clemens
                - Greg Maddux
                - Tom Glavine
                Obsessed with Pitching Mechanics.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by XFactor View Post
                  I'm sure there are other things going on that make him throw that hard, but yes it can help, but yes it does put more strain on the shoulder area

                  However, if the elbow is below shoulder height, it lessens the danger
                  I agree with all of this.

                  I think that the M/Inverted W is like running a car past the red line.

                  It gives you a power boost for a while, but it increases the rate at which you destroy your engine (or arm).

                  IOW, it only works in the short term.
                  Obsessed with Pitching Mechanics.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Billybob622 View Post
                    This kid on my summer baseball team does the inverted w, almost like anthony reyes. He was throwing in the mid to high 80s, however, with little to medium control.

                    However, he is only about 5'4, and 105lbs. Does the inverted w, make you throw that hard?

                    I thought that the inverted w, also caused injury. (he was constantly moving his arm up and down, holding his elbow)
                    One of my 12U pitchers does this. I've been working with him all year to change his arm action. He finally seems to be listening to me and to his pitching coach.

                    It helps that he was extremely inconsistent with his Inverted W arm action. That made him more receptive to my suggestions.
                    Obsessed with Pitching Mechanics.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
                      Chris O'Leary has done some work on this check this out - http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/...ic_200704.html

                      It should give you an idea...
                      Here's an essay that I recently completed that discusses this subject at length...

                      - Death To The Inverted W

                      Here's a link to another article that discusses what I think are the right and the wrong ways to load one's scaps...

                      - Scapular Loading
                      Obsessed with Pitching Mechanics.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I sent Chris a short vid of my son, who is 13, pitching. He has what Chris and others call an inverted W. That is, when he breaks and takes the ball back, his pitching hand (with ball) is below elbow and shoulder. This is the way he has always thrown the baseball...infield, outfield and pitching. He is blessed with a strong arm, but not in the class of BLove's son or others who can hit over 80mph at 13 or 14. He maxes out at 75 and throws a good 12/6 curve. He's been succesful at the travel team level a couple notches below the quality of teams that TG Coach plays. His pitching coach does not see a problem with how my son takes the ball back. His concern is what happens when he moves forward. Our coach says that you can't hurt your arm while its moving back. He believes that the inverted W can cause injury if the pitcher is not careful to synch the arm, core and legs. He is constantly working with Will on making sure that his core does not "out run" his arm since it takes longer for the arm to catch up with the inverted W motion. Will has never had an arm injury (knock on wood) therefore, I'm not going to insist that he change his natural throwing style...I do believe that he will have to work more on his mechanics than a pitcher who breaks with the ball hand up because timing will be more difficult. jima

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                        • #13
                          So people want to teach breaking with the ball--hand up-- on break? Not sure why that's a good think. Are we back to making L's with the kids?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            BS and more BS

                            How many of you so called "experts" have Nyman's material:

                            Rotational Throwing For Numbies

                            SETPRO Instructors Throw Training Program

                            SETPRO Ultimate Pitching Coaches Boot Camp Houston, Texas 2006 Instructional CD

                            And more importantly have any of you actually used it to develop pitchers throwing 90+ MPH who are on college scholarships and or have been drafted?

                            I doubt anyone who has posted their "expert" critcisms of the inverted W really underderstands what it is and more importantly how to teach it.

                            For anyone who REALLY wants to improve, I suggest you begin by reading:

                            http://www.setpro.com/forums/showthr...+Baseball+News

                            And here's the unedited version:

                            http://www.setpro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8833
                            Last edited by justthefacts; 06-05-2007, 07:11 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by justthefacts View Post
                              How many of you so called "experts" have Nyman's material:
                              Rotational Throwing For Numbies
                              SETPRO Instructors Throw Training Program
                              SETPRO Ultimate Pitching Coaches Boot Camp Houston, Texas 2006 Instructional CD
                              And more importantly have any of you actually used it to develop pitchers throwing 90+ MPH who are on college scholarships and or have been drafted?
                              I doubt anyone who has posted their "expert" critcisms of the inverted W really underderstands what it is and more importantly how to teach it.
                              For anyone who REALLY wants to improve, I suggest you begin by reading:
                              http://www.setpro.com/forums/showthr...+Baseball+News
                              And here's the unedited version:
                              http://www.setpro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8833
                              So are you suggesting the inverted M and W are good for young prepubescent arms???
                              "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                              - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                              Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                              Comment

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