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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ursa Major
    Has anyone used the fence drill or something like this while having kids actually hit off a tee? (Don't see how you can do soft toss with a fence unless the kid is standing next to a fence that ends a few feet in front of him and the "pitcher" kneels just around the end of the fence and tosses the ball around the corner.)
    We did last year, not sure what it taught us. Our indoor cage is textile netting so it was easy to cheat and still hit the ball.
    "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
    - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
    Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Ohfor
      I believe staying inside the ball is almost automatic when you understand the proper load/unload of the body.

      Automatic may be too strong. You have to learn to connect the bat to the body so that it unloads properly. But, I think your right on by showing the two swing plane animations; trying to get them to be the second instead of the first.

      But, I don't think the T will teach them that.

      My opinion.

      I would start with one arm lead arm swings, having them hit front toss. Why one arm lead arm? Because without really good aggressive body rotation, from the center, with proper load/unload principles, the bat will not "raise" to the swing plane properly. They may try to "manhandle" the bat to get it to the swing plane. But, IMHO, what they need to learn is to swing the bat with the body. A one-piece swing from the center.



      Crawl inside Pujols swing and try to "feel" what he feels. Forget about the individual body parts and what they are doing for a minute. Feel what he feels. Imagine you are his anus. What does it feel like from that position. And, I'm not being funny. Or perverted. (that's as close to ones center that you can get). Do with yours, what he does with his. A full body, one piece swing. Whip the body. Whip the ass around and watch the bat raise into the plane. When I say raise, I'm referring to one arm lead arm swings.
      You're correct about WHAT he does. Wrong on HOW he does it.

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      • #18
        Ohfor said: Crawl inside Pujols swing and try to "feel" what he feels. ... Do with yours, what he does with his. A full body, one piece swing. Whip the body. Whip the ass around and watch the bat raise into the plane. When I say raise, I'm referring to one arm lead arm swings.
        JBooth replied: You're correct about WHAT he does. Wrong on HOW he does it.
        Jim, since Ohfor didn't really describe what he thinks Pujols is doing, I'm not sure what you're taking issue with. Could you elaborate on your opinion?

        Ohfor said:(that's as close to ones center that you can get)
        Ohfor, I like the overall -- kinda gestalt -- point you're trying to make here. Not perverted, but a bit gross maybe. Anyway, most of the women in my life would dispute your geography and maintain that my "center", as well as that of most guys, is located a couple inches northward.
        Last edited by Ursa Major; 01-31-2006, 11:01 PM.
        sigpicIt's not whether you fall -- everyone does -- but how you come out of the fall that counts.

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        • #19
          That picture of Pujols is beautiful. No wasted movement, essentially his stride has already been taken and he's just chillin'. Sure, the left heal raises off the ground as a timing/slight weightshift mechanism, but dang it's pretty. The only wasted movement would be him starting with his elbow so high when it's gonna come down anyway, but it's all about comfort at that position.

          Hey HG, cool video. Would have been nice to see you take a more "legit" swing though, while still reaching your goal with the hands staying inside. How bout them free tickets to PGE buddy!! jk

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          • #20
            Originally posted by tadlock11
            My little one is 7 (at least playing as one per new LL age cut-off). For sure he takes the swing plane indicated by the green shade in the post above. Whenever I can get some of the clips of him we took yesterday, it is nearly an identicle path as the one above. We put him on a T and tried the "bat behind the back" drill and he was so upright he kept missing over the ball. It was just so cute to see him trying to hit it. Finally got him to bend at the waist just to make contact off the T.
            Ok GUys, help me out here PLEASE! Perhpas I should start a new thread.......look for it please!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Ursa Major

              Ohfor, I like the overall -- kinda gestalt -- point you're trying to make here. Not perverted, but a bit gross maybe. Anyway, most of the women in my life would dispute your geography and maintain that my "center", as well as that of most guys, is located a couple inches northward.
              You must be young.....Everything of mine has gone south.....or disappeared.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by jbooth
                You're correct about WHAT he does. Wrong on HOW he does it.
                Tell us jimbo....I'm anxious for you to be right.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ohfor
                  Tell us jimbo....I'm anxious for you to be right.
                  No. I'm just doing what you always do, which is; tell somebody they're wrong and give no further info.

                  You tell ME how he is moving and I'll let you know if you're right.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jbooth
                    No. I'm just doing what you always do, which is; tell somebody they're wrong and give no further info...
                    Give no further information?

                    Or

                    You didn't/don't understand the language.

                    Post your swing and I'll take a whack at what you're doing.

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                    • #25
                      hey o for are you saying think about loading your butt,or can the front shoulder turn help and or cause the butt to load by itself?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Ohfor
                        Tell us jimbo....I'm anxious for you to be right.
                        Richard...We all concede that you are most likely correct with how you are describing what Pujols is doing. I think the thing these guys (and me included, sometimes) wish you would do, is to NOT use Nyman terms to describe whats going on. "Foward by turning" is very, Nymanish if you will and many of us don't understand what you mean.

                        If you said: Instead of shifting or rocking his weight back over his back leg, he turns his front knee in, or turns his butt toward the pitcher, while at the same time feeling like he is falling forward. Then when the brain says "Go" he swings that back hip around, and unloads.

                        I understood what you said (after thinking and watching the video over and over). But maybe its too much for some.

                        Also, as he turns his front leg in, or shows his but to the pitcher, he points his front shoulder down and in. Like Bonds, Williams and Pujols.


                        Just my thoughts...

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                        • #27
                          his elbow so high when it's gonna come down anyway, but it's all about comfort at that position.


                          are we concluding that something that weighs as much as pujols rear arm/ elbow/ shoulder are coming down and into a turn at minus 32 feet per second has no energy

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by hiddengem
                            So I set up this "live" fence drill for MSandman
                            http://firstpickclub.com/video/handsinside.mpg
                            Thanks for the effort, HG. I appreciate you trying to help me see the light.

                            However... I know it's not as easy to do, but I'd still like to see overhead views (of the fence drill and now this one too) to see the swing paths. I've shot that angle before on top of an 8' step ladder.

                            As for this drill being a live version of the fence drill...


                            or... any closer to how we really want a hitter to swing than the fence drill...


                            I'm not so sure. :noidea

                            As others have already pointed out some of... I see restricted rotation as indicated by lead foot closed through whole swing, hips staying closed (belt buckle still pointing SW instead of slightly east of south). Also, shoulder plane nowhere near perpendicular to axis of rotation setup by posture, shoulders stop turning and arms disconnect and guide bat through.

                            I understand what's been said about "it's a drill... for a specific purpose, etc.". Nonetheless, if it allows a hitter to repeat other detrimental movements, is it worth it? (rhetorical question I suppose, as I've given up on trying to really convince anyone that it's anything other than an extremely useful drill )

                            Here's a thought... Is it a true statement that we really need to provide a "barrier" to enforce the swing path coming from the inside only at the start of rotation? If so, might setting the tee up behind home plate, and about halfway (left to right, that is) along the curve from when the bat is directly facing the catcher to contact? Then put another tee (with a ball on it) out in front of the plate on the inside corner (where we might normally make contact w/ an inside pitch) or for a more outside pitch, at the front of the plate. Would this serve to force the hitter to bring the bat inside the rear tee, but then remove the restriction once he's started the bat on the right path?



                            Would this alleviate the need to disconnect and tug the hands in unnaturally (which is what I personally see in the fence drill) or to drastically over-tilt the shoulders, thereby causing an inefficient mismatch between spine angle and shoulder plane, then disconnect (which is what I personally see in this tee drill)... just to avoid hitting the barrier?

                            I won't be able to try this until this weekend, but I'll try to test it out.

                            Thanks again, HG for taking the time to film and post.

                            Sandman
                            Last edited by MSandman; 02-01-2006, 07:50 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Can anyone help me with this computer question.

                              Both desktops work fine. Laptop takes 2 minutes to load this site or to go from page to page in this site. No problem with other sites. I believe it has to do with popup blockers but not sure.

                              Laptop is 6 months old.

                              Desktops are 1-2 years old.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Sorry Ohfer ....bad with computers

                                Sandman...you are very correct. Inside path work should happen behind the batter. Stand open to the fence to allow the barrel inside at launch and angular displacement unrestricted through the zone

                                Also...Emanski puts the rear foot against the fence and swings and makes sure the bat doesn't hit the fence. I find this a little tricky but it can work too

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