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  • The cages around here stink...

    The cages in my area (at least what i know of) aren't the best. I usually go to Grand Slam. Their "fast" cage throws 70mph but is only 46 feet away. Anybody know what that converts to at 60 feet 6 inches? Reaction time wise? Back home they have a cage set at 81 that I'd frequent that was only 46 feet away. That actually required some quickness , heh heh


    Thanks for the info.

  • #2
    Originally posted by MrUniverse09
    The cages in my area (at least what i know of) aren't the best. I usually go to Grand Slam. Their "fast" cage throws 70mph but is only 46 feet away. Anybody know what that converts to at 60 feet 6 inches? Reaction time wise? Back home they have a cage set at 81 that I'd frequent that was only 46 feet away. That actually required some quickness , heh heh


    Thanks for the info.
    Have you taken algebra yet? 46/70=60.5/x The answer is about 92mph. That isn't fast enough?

    Comment


    • #3
      Your math is accurate but your conclusion isn't.

      Comment


      • #4
        Nyman, fan favorite around here that he is, pointed out the fallacy of looking only at reaction time. Closing speed is huge as well. Example taken to the extreme is, a cannon ball fired from far enough away to give you plenty of reaction time. You still couldn't hit it because the timing problem is too difficult. Ball is in the hitting zone too briefly and add the difficulty of tracking the higher speed. IOW, .4 seconds at 70 mph is NOT the same as .4 seconds at 90+.
        Last edited by Mark H; 02-15-2006, 07:21 AM.

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        • #5
          Slightly off topic.

          I only use the cages for two things:

          1 - Quick Hand drills. I put my son into the fast cage and let him work on his hands. It helps teach him what to do when he faces that occasional overpowering pitcher. We open up a bit and work on putting the ball into play.

          2 - Stroke. I put him in the slowest cage and let him just work on his stroke. He works on staying closed then uncoiling.

          I also let him go into the medium cage if he just wants to take some swings in there but for the most part we stay out of them.

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree with #2. #1 scares the h#$$ out of me.

            A good use for the cage is getting used to high closing speed, even if you just practice tracking it and bunting it. Hard to find many bp pitchers who can throw 90+ bp strikes.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mark H
              I agree with #2. #1 scares the h#$$ out of me.

              A good use for the cage is getting used to high closing speed, even if you just practice tracking it and bunting it. Hard to find many bp pitchers who can throw 90+ bp strikes.
              If you can find a ProBatter in your area, it can. I use it once a week for different training. First just swinging then targeting problem areas. Last year my son had a difficult time just going with the pitch so we set it up to throw outside 1/3 and before long his body and mind got used to taking it to right.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by bbjunkie
                Have you taken algebra yet? 46/70=60.5/x The answer is about 92mph. That isn't fast enough?


                No need to be condescending. It was quite late when I asked the question and my brain wasn't working


                And I know that a 70mph ball doesn't equal a 90mph ball. That's why I was saying the cages around here stunk. Wish there were some that went that fast.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Mark and Richard are absolutely right about closing speed. Actually, I'm not sure I'm prepared to credit Nyman on that one. In fact, I think the cannon ball example was mine. I thought it was theater of the absurd, but also that it made the point pretty well. Regardless, a few folks have been saying that less raw pitch speed through the contact zone is one of the things that makes hitting in FP a little less challenging than hitting a BB.

                  In terms of just doing the raw math for conversion - if you still want to do it - 60.5 is irrelevant.

                  The comparison is 46 feet to maybe 56 feet. Release point is all that matters.

                  Meaning that 70mph from 46 feet is equivalent to something more like 85mph. And probably less. The mph rating on a pitching machine has nothing to do w/ exit speed. It is wheel speed. Friction almost always makes the ball exit at a slower speed, as I have proven (to myself) about a zillion times w/ a radar gun.

                  Regards,

                  Scott
                  Last edited by ssarge; 02-15-2006, 12:02 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1 - Quick Hand drills. I put my son into the fast cage and let him work on his hands. It helps teach him what to do when he faces that occasional overpowering pitcher. We open up a bit and work on putting the ball into play.
                    Opening up a little and putting the ball in play might be an OK strategy, although it wouldn't be mine. But if by this you mean working towards deeper contact and slightly less shoulder turn, OK, possibly. But I absolutely don't understand what the hands can do. It seems to me that using the hands more will slow the swing down.

                    Seriously, what is a quick hands drill?

                    Scott

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                    • #11
                      Couldn't remember whose cannonball analogy it was but I thought it made the point. Paul is the first I heard explain closing speed but he did not claim it as his own idea that I recall.

                      Here's my personal vision of a quick hands drill I watch to amuse myself. Hard to believe the crap that people pay good money for.

                      http://www.quickhands.net/pics.html

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Mark:

                        Couldn't remember whose cannonball analogy it was but I thought it made the point. Paul is the first I heard explain closing speed but he did not claim it as his own idea that I recall.
                        Absolutely of no consequence. I know you know that I couldn't possibly care less, and Paul did explain it better than I ever did. But I think the cannonball analogy was mine. I'm just certain that Paul would himself want to insure that I be credited EVERY SINGLE TIME the idea is even mentioned. After all, failure to do so would be either arrogance or ignorance - the exercise of either of which never ceases to amaze me - and I would have to ban him, along with all of his possee. . . .

                        Smile, Paul, it's a funny line. . . .


                        Just watched "Quick Hands" for the zillionith time.

                        Never noticed before how he steps forward w/ the front foot at the end (I guess I was too incredulously watching the hand path).

                        A linear hands drill w/ all the weight on the back foot is REALLY putting the hitter in a hole.

                        Best,

                        Scott
                        Last edited by ssarge; 02-15-2006, 01:14 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ssarge
                          Opening up a little and putting the ball in play might be an OK strategy, although it wouldn't be mine. But if by this you mean working towards deeper contact and slightly less shoulder turn, OK, possibly. But I absolutely don't understand what the hands can do. It seems to me that using the hands more will slow the swing down.

                          Seriously, what is a quick hands drill?

                          Scott
                          I'm not much of a writer to put thoughts onto paper (forum) but I'll try.

                          "Quickhands" may be a bad term, more like "Quickbody".

                          In addition to just being a better hitter, there are times when you are faced against a pitcher who is simply just overwhelming. Times when a flaw like coasting into your swing really hurts. You can't catch up. Putting a player into a situation like a fast Iron Mike will show demonstrate this issue to a player. After working with my son for a bit he has adjusted and will now snap (uncoil, etc) his body quicker through the swing process.

                          Have I confused you enough yet?

                          After working on this fast Iron Mike then going right to some live pitching he will keep tension in his body longer and uncoil later. It adds a great deal more power to his swing.

                          I only do this on occasion. I rarely use the wheel or arm pitching machines but that is one way I do.

                          Again, I suck at putting what is in my thin shell of a head into writing.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Trying to use the quickest possible swing, using full body mechanics is indeed a great objective. Irrespective of pitcher. The longer you can wait to initiate your swing - becuase it is quick - the better off you will be. You can ALWAYS use more pitch telemetry / data.

                            I am pleased to hear you are not simply trying to do something w/ the hands to make them quicker. Won't happen, and you'll hurt the swing trying.

                            Best,

                            Scott

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              release points

                              Originally posted by ssarge
                              The comparison is 46 feet to maybe 56 feet. Release point is all that matters.
                              The release point for a LL'er is probably around 40 ft. I heard somewhere that Randy Johnson's release point is around 48 ft. I still find that hard to believe.

                              Comment

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