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9U Out of the Baseline - Yes or No

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  • #16
    Originally posted by CrimsonGuy View Post

    Score was tied and that would have been the 3rd out and ended the game, so that did lead directly to the loss, but your other points are taken and that is why I didn't argue after the game, because it's a hard job.
    Unfortunately I don't believe the underlined were, just by the bold part of your sentence. =(



    In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

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    • #17
      I'm totally ok with your post and even what you stated as its the internet and not in person so tone, etc is not heard... HOWEVER --- I still say that use these videos and examples to teach your kids/team. Don't go to them or let them here you say that the "ump beat us" because of what you feel is a bad or wrong call. If your SS gets to the bag and stays on his feet, then the runner would have most likely been out - simple as that. The first video, if your SS had covered 3rd, the runner would have most likely been able to be tagged out... AGAIN and believe me - I've seen 9u parents and coaches think that it matters if they win or lose at 9u... I'm telling you right now - it doesn't matter at all. Teach them - if they are talented and well coached, then in time if they continue to develop, mature, grow, and have the desire, they'll do fine.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by CrimsonGuy View Post

        Score was tied and that would have been the 3rd out and ended the game, so that did lead directly to the loss, but your other points are taken and that is why I didn't argue after the game, because it's a hard job.
        The point here is "Tied at what score?" 0-0?? Or something more like 9-9 or 13-13?

        Here is the bottom line, and my two cents after coaching teams from 8U to 12U for the past 12 seasons... you aren't a professional coach, those aren't mlb players, and the umpiring should be expected to be on par with that (low) level of play.

        You and your players will be better served by adopting a mentality beforehand that adversity is going to come from this game in many forms, and poor umpiring is just another one of those. In fact, it is one of the discussions I have at our very first team meeting every year (with players AND parents), and I even PRACTICE bad calls during scrimmages. My pitcher splits one right over the plate, catches the batter looking??.... BALL! Coach them on how to react to that!

        Teach them how to deal with adversity in a constructive manner. It also does them good if you point out the fact that if they hadn't struck out with a runner on 3rd, or dropped that fly ball back in the 2nd inning, then the other team wouldn't have been tied at the end when (suddenly) the umpire's bad call is what "cost" them the victory.

        I PROMISE if you verbalize to your kids that they can only control WHAT THEY CAN CONTROL (primarily EFFORT and FOCUS), and all the other variables should be left to worry about themselves, you will develop a team that plays with mental toughness and poise that most other teams (that look for excuses) fail to muster. This will lead to more wins in the end than any efforts you put toward finding better umpires for your league.


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        • #19
          Originally posted by CrimsonGuy View Post
          What are the forum's thoughts on these plays? Both of these plays happened in a 9U game last night. (You might need to expand the video to better see the plays)

          I umpire a little bit myself and I've always used the rule of thumb that if the fielder has to turn around to chase the runner, then the runner can be assumed to be out of the baseline. In other words, you can try and dodge the tag, but you can't literally run in a circle around it.

          The second play was at the end of the game and literally caused us to lose because it would have been the third out. Instead, the runner at second eventually scored the winning walkoff run.

          On the first play when I appealed to the umpire, he said that the baseline was reestablished when the runner turned around... OK, that's a good technical umpire excuse but he wasn't avoiding a tag yet so the baseline hadn't changed. On the second one I said, "That was more than 3 feet" and he responded, "No, it was more like two and a half". Let me tell you, it took a lot of self-control not to tear into him when the game was over, but I did not.

          I realize this is mostly sour grapes and a bunch of internet commenters aren't going to change the result of the game, but I wanted to share.

          (FWIW, the kid in the first video is the son of an NFL player and is a great athlete and is very fast, but no matter how fast he is, he still isn't allowed to run in a circle around the tag after we have him picked off)




          You wouldn't get a call on either of those plays at any level of baseball through high school.

          MAYBE with a second umpire on the first play if there was a better angle, but a runner who runs around a flat footed fielder like that isn't going to be called out and the second play was a perfect job by the runner.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by CrimsonGuy View Post


            This morning when I was analyzing my pitching videos, I realized that I have a view of the last play from a much different angle:



            This view doesn't change my mind and if anything, I think it just confirms the umps call.

            This R jukes left and then right and avoids F6. I don't think he deviated from the original line by more than 3.01168ft. I think Blue got the call exactly right.

            I did notice the C was not in a runner-on stance. He's sitting on his heels when he receives the pitch. F6 was late getting to the bag. I understand that this is 9U...I would show them this video and point out how if those two points were corrected, the outcome of the play probably wouldn't have been a judgement call from the ump.

            Good luck with the team...coaching kids this age is so much fun.
            Put your junk in your pocket!

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            • #21
              The 3 foot rule for baselines doesn't scale down very well to the tots and can make baselines look like a benny hill episode. 6' is a lot of room when you only have 2' arms.

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              • #22
                I haven't read any of the comments yet, but both look OK to me.

                The first one could go either way, but I'd give it to the runner. The runner is definitely further out of the normal baseline than usual, but being out of the base line is based on the runners path, not point A to point B from the bases, right? So, based on that, the runner starts his running path long before he's near the fielder with the ball. However, an Umpire could say it wasn't a normal base bath. I'd give it to the runner.

                The second one, he has definitely established his running lane, the fielder goes to tag and the runner avoids the tag by taking a side step to the right. The runner is allowed a few feet on either side to slide step as long as its not changing the running path. The video shows the runner, step to the side then back to get inline with the bag. I'd call him safe.

                Now, I'm going to go back to read the other comments and see where I'm wrong.

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