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  • #31
    Originally posted by Scrub View Post

    And thank God for that. It's a much needed rule. The less Nickelback in this world, the better I always say.
    No kidding. If I made the rules their whole family would be banned from the park.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by 2022dad View Post

      So, the defense is penalized bc the umpire has abandoned the play (back to the original post)? What happens if it's a close play, the HPU hears the crowd starting to yell, looks up and misses the play at the plate, and the FU can't see the play. Sorry, I can't see how this is not a dead ball situation. It sounds like the needs to be a clarification.
      It's not a dead ball situation because time was never declared. While it seems unfair, there's no clarification needed. If PU can't maintain situational awareness to clean the plate and know there's a play coming, then they need to call time. However, if a play happens, it's still valid. Sending the runner back would result in a protestable situation (and if you've got a coach who's willing to do this, I'm quite willing to bet they would protest, as well.)

      I'm not going to comment on whether leaving early is an issue because I'm not familiar with the requirements and obligations of all parties involved. My commentary assumes that there is no violation.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Matt13 View Post

        It's not a dead ball situation because time was never declared. While it seems unfair, there's no clarification needed. If PU can't maintain situational awareness to clean the plate and know there's a play coming, then they need to call time. However, if a play happens, it's still valid. Sending the runner back would result in a protestable situation (and if you've got a coach who's willing to do this, I'm quite willing to bet they would protest, as well.)

        I'm not going to comment on whether leaving early is an issue because I'm not familiar with the requirements and obligations of all parties involved. My commentary assumes that there is no violation.
        OP was referring to a LL division where anytime there's no ongoing play and pitcher is on the mound the ball is dead and runners have to stay glued to the base. Which, if R3 took off from home because he saw the ump cleaning the plate and his coach came out and argued that "the pitcher wasn't in the windup" and the umps parroted him on that, it's bush league and/or misinformed all around.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Matt13 View Post

          It's not a dead ball situation because time was never declared. While it seems unfair, there's no clarification needed. If PU can't maintain situational awareness to clean the plate and know there's a play coming, then they need to call time. However, if a play happens, it's still valid. Sending the runner back would result in a protestable situation (and if you've got a coach who's willing to do this, I'm quite willing to bet they would protest, as well.)...
          So, what happens if there's a close play and the ump doesn't see it???? Who wins that one?
          Put your junk in your pocket!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by 2022dad View Post

            So, what happens if there's a close play and the ump doesn't see it???? Who wins that one?
            Whichever way he flips the coin.

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            • #36
              I've seen umps that would get more calls right if they flipped a coin.
              Last edited by 2022dad; 05-18-2018, 08:06 AM.
              Put your junk in your pocket!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Tman View Post

                Right. Runner is out for leaving 3B early. There's no rule about, "the pitcher didn't start the windup". So R3 should go back to the dugout and think about his bush league play.
                In little league, the runner is never out just for leaving early.

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                • #38
                  I always defer to what Matt13 says on these matters, but in this case I think he is exactly wrong. He would be correct if this were college or high school ball, but then it wouldn't happen there either and there would be plenty of other umpires to help. This is Little League and with that comes Little League Umpires that are not professional and very often don't know what the heck is going on, they might even be working the game alone or with a volunteer coach as the field umpire. If a Little League coach brought a protest over the kid being sent back to 3rd in that situation to our board he would be laughed out of the room. In response to Umpires cleaning the plate without time, that is bush on their part. I can't even believe that an umpire would want to have the ball in play and have his back to the whole field and the ball. How could he even rule on whether the pitcher was on the rubber and the player was on the base and left early? That is great when you have a couple of other umpires working the game with you, but when you are it, that is poor game management.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by TJinWV View Post

                    In little league, the runner is never out just for leaving early.
                    Yeah, after looking it up to refresh my memory it's only softball where they call the runner out. You know, although I'm sure it must've happened, I can't remember off hand a time during me playing closed bases many many moons ago or my son playing them that enforcing the leaving early issue was a big deal. Action pretty much came to a halt once the pitcher had the ball and coaching otherwise was considered incredibly bush unless a kid was well between bases. If the kid was 5 foot off 3B staring at home plate his coach simply told him to go back, not see if he could get the other team to screw up a rundown. And getting kids to actually come off the base when the ball got to the batter was always the issue, not explaining to them that they couldn't lead off.

                    Regardless, if everything the OP is saying is being understood correctly, play should've been dead because pitcher had the ball on the mound with the catcher ready to receive and play would've restarted once the pitch reached the batter.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TJinWV View Post

                      In little league, the runner is never out just for leaving early.
                      That is the rule, though, in PONY at ages 10 & below. So perhaps posters were mixing up their organizations and rule sets.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Scrub View Post

                        That is the rule, though, in PONY at ages 10 & below. So perhaps posters were mixing up their organizations and rule sets.
                        True, but that part's just a side argument if OP is wondering why in the world the ump let R3 score on a dead play simply because he failed to call time while brushing off the plate.
                        Last edited by Tman; 05-18-2018, 02:31 PM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Scrub View Post
                          That is the rule, though, in PONY at ages 10 & below. So perhaps posters were mixing up their organizations and rule sets.
                          That's not necessarily so. It's one of the optional rules for Mustang division (9-10) that a league can choose to play under. Our PONY league opted for 9-N-1 and ran open bases at that level of play....

                          Mustang Baserunning.png

                          ...and as is stated, open bases are the rule for 10U All Star tournament play per the bold.
                          In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

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                          • #43
                            You're right, Mud. I forgot about the "choose your own adventure" element of that rule. We're working under 9-N-3 around these parts (which is why posters' arguments about leaving the base with the pitcher on the rubber resulting in an out seemed to ring true to me).

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                            • #44
                              LOL! I like your "choose your own adventure" assessment of those rules...because it often felt just like that with open bases at that age, and the wide varying degree of talent (or really the varying degree of understanding baseball) at that level. Not positive that #2 isn't a better happy medium of the rules for most involved, but I guess it is what it is depending on locale.
                              In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

                              Comment

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