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Advice from you coaches for this dad

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  • coachrjb
    replied
    Stats can go both ways. If you look at the stats the "coaches kid" has 8 more ABs than your son, but has one fewer strike out. The "coaches kid" strikes out once every 4 ABs vs your son once ever 2.8 ABs. The "coaches kid" is putting the ball in play 75% of his ABs, your son 64%. I say all of this to say, stop using stats to determine who should be batting where in the lineup. He might have the lowest batting avg but he is putting the ball in play. Why can't he bat 5th?

    I have a kid on my team that is the king of dink and dunk hits. And I have another kid it has been smashing the baseball but it's right at defenders. The dink and dunk kid is batting over .400 but he bats 8th, the other kid that is smashing, but right at people is batting .210 but I still bat him within the top 5
    Last edited by coachrjb; 05-14-2018, 11:57 AM.

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  • bbrages
    replied
    Based on those stats: I'd have your kid at 5th or higher. I think you have a lot of good hitters on the team, but the coach's kid should be batting last.

    The biggest issue is that the coach said he'd stack the batting order by performance, but he is clearly not doing it. IMO, you have enough stats there to show it.

    I would probably be thinking about finding another team, just because I have a problem with coaches who won't be upfront and honest...

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  • dragoncoach
    replied
    Originally posted by mattun View Post

    How do you know he didn't lead the team in every category last year and is off to a rough start and is totally due? Ultimately, if you don't think you could say that face-to-face with the coach, I'd just assume there's a method to his madness/he deserves to do what he wants since he's spending his time to coach your son/he knows something you don't.
    I'm aware of this and assume this is the case. Personally, I just don't agree with the move/non move - especially after telling the boys he'd bat them according to performance.

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  • mattun
    replied
    Originally posted by dragoncoach View Post

    If my son had the lowest batting average on the team - 1) I'd be working with him nonstop and 2) He wouldn't be batting 5th every. single. game.
    How do you know he didn't lead the team in every category last year and is off to a rough start and is totally due? Ultimately, if you don't think you could say that face-to-face with the coach, I'd just assume there's a method to his madness/he deserves to do what he wants since he's spending his time to coach your son/he knows something you don't.

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  • dragoncoach
    replied
    Originally posted by mattun View Post
    Coach's kid will always get coach's kid privileges (mostly extra opportunities). But he generally gets over hammered on by dad coaching-wise and everything over analyzed, so have a heart since it balances out. Ultimately, you only lose like 1/8th of an at bat each game by each spot lower in the order you hit. So it's really not not big a deal (I.E. you've probably lost 3 whole at bats in those 25 games by your coach being set in his ways).
    If my son had the lowest batting average on the team - 1) I'd be working with him nonstop and 2) He wouldn't be batting 5th every. single. game.

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  • dragoncoach
    replied
    Interesting tidbit:

    We played the #1 seed in our 2nd game yesterday. This team was 27-3 going into the game.

    In the second inning - up 1-0, my son jacked a homer so hard that pretty much the entire crowd knew it was gone the moment he hit it. This put them up 3-0 - and it seemed to spark the whole team and put a serious dent in the opponents confidence. We ended up winning 10-3. The hit was described from the coaches son as "The hardest hit ball I've ever seen" and by an assistant coach "I think that ball is still going" (10 mins after the HR).

    I never found the ball - it went deep into the woods unfortunately.

    We lost in the championship game. My son was sitting on deck or in the hole when quite a few rallies ended. He was on-deck when the rally died in the top of the 6th with the score tied at 2. We lost in the bottom half of the 6th. << these are some of the things that pile up the frustration. Keep in mind, the frustration isn't huge - but I don't want to see it grow any bigger!

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  • mattun
    replied
    Coach's kid will always get coach's kid privileges (mostly extra opportunities). But he generally gets over hammered on by dad coaching-wise and everything over analyzed, so have a heart since it balances out. Ultimately, you only lose like 1/8th of an at bat each game by each spot lower in the order you hit. So it's really not THAT big a deal (I.E. you've probably lost 3 whole at bats in those 25 games by your coach being set in his ways).
    Last edited by mattun; 05-14-2018, 10:50 AM.

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  • dragoncoach
    replied
    I truly appreciate all of the input here! It's a lot to take in, and also a lot to respond to. Respond though I will try...

    I added stats - I've never had luck uploading pics, so I hope it works. They are 25 games into the 2017/18 season if you include the fall. They are 13 games into the spring/summer season.

    As for me raising a red flag - my son is still enjoying himself and we're being the best parents we can (none of the frustration in this thread has been mentioned outside of my wife, myself, and my father (my dad has always been my go-to to talk about coaching). We show up every time - early and willing. We clear our schedule for baseball. As coach, I dealt with all kinds of parents, so I know how nice it is to have fully cooperative parents - that's who we strive to be.

    I do keep a close eye on things though - I can't help it. When I coached, I devoted a ton of time to it, and I tried to do everything right. I moved players around a lot. Everyone got chances on the infield. In recball / non-tournaments - I switched the batting lineup often to try to get everyone similar plate appearances. My son didn't get any of the benefits of daddy ball - I was dead set on not coaching that way.

    With that said, I'm worried about now being stuck in a daddy-ball situation. Maybe it's too early to look into it, but I'm not going to stop analyzing the situation inside my own head. I probably drive myself crazy as one responder mentioned - but as I said, I do keep it inside.

    My son has noticed the #5 hitter (coaches son). He's struggling mightily. My son also took to the coach mentioning he'd bat them according to how they did, and he's been striving to prove himself. I've not seen his worry about batting 7th affect any of his play. The #5 hitter has ended a ton of innings and killed quite a few rallies.

    My son is also really enjoying the team/teammates. He's having more fun in baseball than he did in the past (he was surrounded by rec-ball players and it really discouraged him in the final year of it). The frustration he showed to me after Saturday worried me - that's the main reason that I came here seeking input/advice.

    I love numbers/stats and I loved coaching - I can't help but pay attention to both, and I doubt that's going to change - that's who I am.

    I'm sure there's some things I didn't respond to - my head is full and my stomach is empty (lunch time!). I'll save anything else for a future response.

    This weekend, the stats changed a little. My son lost his overall lead in batting average by going 5/11. Coaches' son (5 hitter) raised his average significantly by going 4/13. (he had 2 hits the entire sping/summer before that)

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  • Viking0
    replied
    Of course, there could be a lot of good reasons to bat a kid later. That is why a kid should simply ask the coach in a respectful manner, just like if you at school and disagreed with a grade, or at the job and disagreed with a promotion. I have had kids ask me why they play in x position or bat in y position. I simply tell them why. If a coach can't handle that, then I think there may be a problem with the coach. Also, as I said, it is not as if the kid is sitting, just batting a little bit later. I would emphasize that to my kid as well. There is a difference between a little and a lot of out of whack. If, in the end, the coach doesn't really have a good reason, have your kid just live with it. None of us will set up a lineup perfectly.

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  • mattun
    replied
    Originally posted by abc123 View Post
    Curious how many games into your new season?
    They only have 3 homers and 4 triples. Clearly the BA argument could be small sample size. There could be emotional snowflakes on the field or in the parents too. Moving one of those core kids down in the lineup could make him an emotional wreck and create a downward spiral that will suck the entire team into chaos and eventual disbandment. Or maybe he's just one of those coaches who doesn't like having three easy outs in a row at the bottom of the lineup and is letting the new kid protect against that rather than messing with his breaking up the roles of his regular players seems like the easier tactic.

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  • coachrjb
    replied
    My advice would be to tell your son to keep hitting no matter were in the lineup he bats. Batting 3rd or batting 7th, he should have the same approach regardless.

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  • bbrages
    replied
    Here is a little story:

    I had a 10u team and there was a player who wasn't that great of a hitter, but he was OK. Real nice kid, though. Sometimes I would bat him third, because I want my best hitters at 1, 2, and 4, with some good pop at 5 and 6. Most of the time, he'd be farther down, middle to lower part of the order kind of guy. Anyway...

    My oldest kid was about 13, and he is really into baseball and did a lot of stuff like OOTP and Stratomatic. So he begged me to set the lineup. He wasn't as hot on this player as I am, so he put the kid batting last.

    I got an email from the mom wondering why her little dude was batting last. I didn't want to be shifting the blame to my kid, so I said that I just like to mix things up a bit.

    Also... I had another kid I loved to bat leadoff. He was a good (for our level) ballplayer. What I liked about him was he would hit the ball hard, but he had a more selective eye than some of our other hitters. My son put him at #3 when he made the lineup. And we won that game, so he still tells me I should have batted "Xander" third like he did. Whatever... if Bryce Harper can bat leadoff, so can our little slugger...

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  • songtitle
    replied
    OP, you did the right thing. Vent here, blow off steam, receive good advice, relax.

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  • abc123
    replied
    Originally posted by bbrages View Post
    And another thing... this core group of top players may have earned their position at the top of the lineup through previous play. And it could (and to some degree should) take a lot of AB's for another player to prove that his good results aren't just a result of being lucky, but represent real skill, and therefore should displace one of the other guys. Think how streaky MLB players can be.
    yeah, this is why i asked how many games they have played. i am actually on the flip side of the OP. we are the same age group, probably similar in overall team skill (AAA). except i coach. we have three new kids on the roster. of the other 8, some have been together for 2 years, some for 5.

    we just had our first tournament, and i was just imagining the grumbling that was occurring when parents saw the order (although our group is really good about keeping it to themselves and smiling). i think it takes about a month, 10-15 games or so, to even get close to an optimal batting order. our best hitter is having a rough start. he is still #3 and it will take a while before he moves down, based on past performance.

    as a coach i think we are justified in having more confidence that the struggling #3 is going to get back to where he normally is than the new kid is going to sustain his current level of performance. the only question is "how many games" before you start re-adjusting that point of view.

    either way, coaches want to win. if your boy keeps delivering, he is going to move up. there is absolutely zero point in worrying about it or reading into small changes in the same part of the lineup.it is kind of a red flag that a move from 7-6 or 6-7 would trigger either of you, tbh.

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  • bbrages
    replied
    And another thing... this core group of top players may have earned their position at the top of the lineup through previous play. And it could (and to some degree should) take a lot of AB's for another player to prove that his good results aren't just a result of being lucky, but represent real skill, and therefore should displace one of the other guys. Think how streaky MLB players can be.

    Leave a comment:

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