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  • Rocketsan22
    started a topic LL walks where player keeps running to second

    LL walks where player keeps running to second

    Seen it in tournament play but last night one of our (supposed to be) elite players in a 12u houseleague game was walked by us and as he jogged down to first and rounded bag, took off for second. This kid knows better. Stuff like this drives me bonkers.

    What’s the most diplomatic way to express my displeasure while still maintaining my positive demeanour?

    Still pissed tonight. Especially when he was overheard saying “I got walked and scored a triple.” Grrrr...

  • Viking0
    replied
    Originally posted by Rocketsan22 View Post
    Can’t really describe the gap between our houseleague kids and our elite kids. It’s cavernous... As an aside, we’re up in Canada and don’t get a lot of ptactice time
    before season starts - in fact we had zero practices before our first game.

    There are also gentlemen’s agreements about passed balls and steals. This was outside of longstanding boundaries of acceptable plays.

    The talent level of our non-rep kids is terrible... this was a clear case of a rep kid taking advantage of a situation. We were tied 5-5. He was first up.

    Anyways, I understand the concept of playing hard but this unfortunately was Bush league under the circumstsances. Moving on...
    Sorry, but I think then they should change the rules or have better players play up. One thing that is guaranteed is that if a rule can be taken advantage of, it will be taken advantage of if it wins games. Best to try and adapt. We've all got burned by things such as that, and if we don't adapt, it will keep on happening. The nicest guy I ever knew, who never did anything untoward, never won many games, and while the kids and parents liked him, they did not like getting beat over and over again. Also, one of the most successful coaches in wins and losses I know, doesn't have the happiest parents either. It is about striking a balance, IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tman
    replied
    Originally posted by SouthGaBaseball View Post

    The majority of times I have seen this type of defense used it caused the baserunner to veer widely outside the basepath and be called out for being outside the baseline. We even started having the pitcher catch the throw back from the catcher on that side of the mound. We never saw that move again after it was cut down a couple times.
    I like that it makes the runner panic instead of the pitcher.

    Leave a comment:


  • queue
    replied
    The next time you play the guy and have first and third, run the skunk in the outfield play to show him your displeasure with his running antics.

    http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...broke-baseball
    Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnI4KlUNf38


    Leave a comment:


  • SouthGaBaseball
    replied
    Originally posted by Tman View Post

    That's actually not a bad idea. Force the runner to make a decision.

    And too, you really don't have to stop this every time. That kid gets nailed a couple times he'll knock it off. I mean, if the risk is even 1 in 5 you'll get caught, why would you do that vs. a straight steal?



    The majority of times I have seen this type of defense used it caused the baserunner to veer widely outside the basepath and be called out for being outside the baseline. We even started having the pitcher catch the throw back from the catcher on that side of the mound. We never saw that move again after it was cut down a couple times.

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt13
    replied
    Originally posted by Viking0 View Post

    I thought the pitcher needs to be on the rubber for it to be a balk (I've heard both rubber and mound)? It may depend on the specific rules being played after. We actually had the hidden ball trick played on us after a timeout (the coach gave one of his kids the ball during an infield meeting). The pitcher needs to be on the rubber for the ball to even be put in play. Our head coach was livid. Eventually the umpire conceded he was wrong, but the game was a blowout in a rec game, so we didn't push it too much (except our head coach wanted him to tell the opposing coach, so they knew the rules, lol).
    It is a balk when the pitcher doesn't have the ball and is:

    OBR (and derivatives): On or astride the rubber
    FED: Within five feet of the rubber
    NCAA: On the mound

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  • Matt13
    replied
    Originally posted by Rocketsan22 View Post

    Mad because this is an elite kid taking advantage of houseleague kids with less skill or ball smarts. Pitcher and infielder panicked and the ball ended up in CF. It’s also frustrating because we preach playing the game right.
    I get it. However, being mad isn't going to change it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rocketsan22
    replied
    Can’t really describe the gap between our houseleague kids and our elite kids. It’s cavernous... As an aside, we’re up in Canada and don’t get a lot of ptactice time
    before season starts - in fact we had zero practices before our first game.

    There are also gentlemen’s agreements about passed balls and steals. This was outside of longstanding boundaries of acceptable plays.

    The talent level of our non-rep kids is terrible... this was a clear case of a rep kid taking advantage of a situation. We were tied 5-5. He was first up.

    Anyways, I understand the concept of playing hard but this unfortunately was Bush league under the circumstsances. Moving on...

    Leave a comment:


  • Tman
    replied
    Originally posted by SouthGaBaseball View Post
    Teach the pitcher to look for this and to run directly at the runner and execute a run down. Once you do this properly once or twice you will never see this again.
    That's actually not a bad idea. Force the runner to make a decision.

    And too, you really don't have to stop this every time. That kid gets nailed a couple times he'll knock it off. I mean, if the risk is even 1 in 5 you'll get caught, why would you do that vs. a straight steal?




    Leave a comment:


  • JoeG
    replied
    Originally posted by Rocketsan22 View Post
    Seen it in tournament play but last night one of our (supposed to be) elite players in a 12u houseleague game was walked by us and as he jogged down to first and rounded bag, took off for second. This kid knows better. Stuff like this drives me bonkers.

    What’s the most diplomatic way to express my displeasure while still maintaining my positive demeanour?

    Still pissed tonight. Especially when he was overheard saying “I got walked and scored a triple.” Grrrr...
    My first year as a head coach was 9u, and there was a team that loved to do this and many other types of aggressive base running, most especially stealing home when the catcher was throwing the ball back to the pitcher. They had one stud player who was a master of this stuff and his dad (head coach) encouraged it. Many other players on that team copied the stud player even though they didn't do it as well.

    So what did I do? Drills!

    Our team had a ton of fun rapidly improving our ability to handle all kinds of aggressive base running. By the time we played this team mid season, we had it down, and it was so much fun when they handed us free outs! Kids on my team had a blast with it!

    However - I do admit we never did get the stud out. Every other kid on the team got thrown out multiple times as they were very slow to catch on to just how good my team got at stopping this kind of thing.

    Some baseball purists coaches with college experience did not like this kind of thing as it wasn't "real baseball." To them I replied:

    1) It's real at the 9u level

    2) While the skill the kids learn to defend against this may be useless at the college baseball level, it's a really fun way to get them to learn how to pay attention at all times, throw/catch accurately, execute rundowns, etc. So their skill and attention level increases while having fun throwing out aggressive base runners.

    It did take time to drill all this but it was a ton of fun. To those who say it can't be done at the 9u level, I disagree. You may not be able to throw out the fastest kid in the league with the best reflexes. But you'll be able to throw out all the copycats, and there will definitly be some of those.

    Leave a comment:


  • bbrages
    replied
    How is executing this that much different from executing when a pitcher steps off and gets a runner hung up between bases?

    IMO, it's not too much to expect 12 y/os to handle. Only catch is, they are Little League and aren't used to open bases.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tman
    replied
    I'd say knowing that he'll do it and knowing his coach isn't going to tell him to knock it off, just get the ball to the pitcher quickly (as has been said) and have your SS nonchalantly take a step or two toward 2B and mirror what he's doing. If the kid starts to slowly walk into his lead then the SS starts walking slowly toward 2B. If he's running then SS has to book it obviously. Make sure the pitcher holds the ball a couple extra tics, maybe even steps off. That way you mess with the runner plus make sure SS isn't too far out of position.

    Kids will still panic half the time but oh well. If you can get him even 1 time in 3 that totally changes the math on that play. Make sure CF is ready to back it up, if he sees that kid pulling that again he needs to come in. Kid's not going to do it I wouldn't think unless he's sure he can pull it off 3/4 of the time.

    I realize it still sucks though because here's this rarely attempted thing that you have to spend time teaching half your team to counter just because of one kid. Hard enough sometimes to just get em to figure out who's covering 2B on a steal (I prefer 2B for a RHH and SS for a lefty unless SS is just significantly better than 2B for the record).
    Last edited by Tman; 05-17-2018, 02:03 PM.

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  • songtitle
    replied
    Gonna be blunt here, but this is poor coaching on your part if you ever let this happen to you again.

    Leave a comment:


  • bbrages
    replied
    Originally posted by castaway View Post
    Almost all of these situations can be controlled by the catcher making a hard and immediate throw back to the pitcher.
    It doesn't even have to be that hard or immediate. Get the ball back to the pitcher before the runner is halfway to second and they are giving you an out, all you have to do is execute.

    Runner on third changes the calculus though.

    Leave a comment:


  • mudvnine
    replied
    Originally posted by castaway View Post
    This should be an easy out...

    An immediate throw back to the pitcher from the catcher will prevent this if there aren't already runners on base.

    I seriously doubt that he will be going to second if the pitcher has the ball and is watching him.

    Almost all of these situations can be controlled by the catcher making a hard and immediate throw back to the pitcher.

    If there is a runner on third, this is no different than a first and third play.

    If you have a catcher who can't throw back to the pitcher reliably or throw down to second, that is a defensive decision you have made and my goal as the opposing coach would be to make you rethink that decision...
    Unfortunately while a good idea...it takes more than the pitcher having the ball as Wailuku shared with us already....

    Originally posted by WailukuHeights View Post
    Happens in MLB too.

    ...where the pitcher had the ball before B/R was even halfway down the line yet, and the team still gave up 2nd base easily.

    Leave a comment:

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