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How much better is significant

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  • How much better is significant

    Let's say you have 2 players competing for the same position. Let's say both players are equal in their ability at the same position defensively. Let's say they are the same in all of the intangibles. The only difference is their hitting. Let's say player A is a junior and hitting 300. Good power. Player B is a freshman, cant hit the ball as hard or far as player A, but can still hit for moderate power. How much higher does player B's batting average need to be to win over player A's position? If not batting average, how do you assess which guy to go with and how much better does the new guy need to be to take the spot from the player A who is currently there? Curious to see people's opinions.
    Never played baseball, just a dad of someone that loves to play. So take any advice I post with a grain of salt.

  • #2
    I would have a hard time taking out a 300 power hitting junior for a almost as good as frosh, no matter how projectible he is. Frosh will find pt elsewhere or sub.

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    • #3
      Junior gets the nod everyday and twice on Sunday... Player B has to be better ABSOLUTELY to oust an upperclassman by 2 years... If player B can play another position and is a better option than other upperclassmen, I play him there...
      I don't like my balls to smell like pickles.

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      • #4
        A gets the nod starting the season, From there, just depends on how each does. B gets reps -an inning here or two,probably pinch hits some, but is on a short leash. Probably put him at 2b some too. Will he win out the position, doubtful. A would have to become a liability, more than just a slump. B has to show continued development (i.e. projectability) to keep getting innings here and there.

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        • #5
          A freshman likely wouldn't play HSV at all around here.
          efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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          • #6
            The better, proven player gets the position.

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            • #7
              Junior Plays and Freshman plays on JV which gets the maximum talent on the field for your school on an everyday basis and varsity talent playing on JV can help the rest of that team develop. If Junior struggles Freshman comes up and joins Varsity.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Bolts-Baseball View Post
                Junior gets the nod everyday and twice on Sunday... Player B has to be better ABSOLUTELY to oust an upperclassman by 2 years... If player B can play another position and is a better option than other upperclassmen, I play him there...
                Originally posted by bman52 View Post
                Junior Plays and Freshman plays on JV which gets the maximum talent on the field for your school on an everyday basis and varsity talent playing on JV can help the rest of that team develop. If Junior struggles Freshman comes up and joins Varsity.
                ^^^ Take your pick ^^^

                Both are as real life as I've experienced at our HS. Btw, I'm also going to be fighting the VHC to put the freshy on my JV team with bman's exact argument, and hope that freshy can't play another varsity position or beat out another varsity player at any of them. =)


                In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

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                • #9
                  Okay shift the scenario to hitting 250. Any chance the freshman can get the nod? Another challenge is that the freshman only get in the game sparingly, so even hitting 417, it's a limited number of abs. Agree the chance of making hsv is a long shot.
                  Never played baseball, just a dad of someone that loves to play. So take any advice I post with a grain of salt.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by pthawaii View Post
                    Okay shift the scenario to hitting 250. Any chance the freshman can get the nod? Another challenge is that the freshman only get in the game sparingly, so even hitting 417, it's a limited number of abs. Agree the chance of making hsv is a long shot.
                    If the junior sucks of course the freshman has a chance. But hitting 500 in 12 plate appearances won't make the coach change his opinion much.

                    if the older guy hits 250 it depends on how he does it. If he is really struggling and getting just Ks, pop ups and weak dribblers he might get sat. But if he is hitting decently hard grounders and fly balls at people the coach won't sit him all that quick.
                    I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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                    • #11
                      There have only been a handful of freshman that played Vars for Dunn. Unless you’re a Doi or a youth league legend like last years freshamn on the vars, don’t bet on beating out a junior at your school. While having success at Legion 19u is great, just remember that the talent is watered down due to many of the premier players doing mainland showcases. My opinion is to let your son play Jv and let him get his reps.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pthawaii View Post
                        Okay shift the scenario to hitting 250. Any chance the freshman can get the nod? Another challenge is that the freshman only get in the game sparingly, so even hitting 417, it's a limited number of abs. Agree the chance of making hsv is a long shot.
                        No, man... But as Journey sings... "Don't stop believin'"
                        I don't like my balls to smell like pickles.

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                        • #13
                          Personally, I'm pulling for JV. I think he'll play more there vs varsity where he'll be riding the bench. My son made some goals and one was to play for varsity next year. It seems most people assess players using the eye test, which the responses here confirm as well. I was trying to put a number on it so he has objective goals, but it sounds like that's not really feasible.

                          He is someone that does well with objective goals.

                          I should make it clear he isnt competing for a varsity spot right now. He is just working his butt off to get better. It's very doubtful that he even gets an invite to tryout for varsity.
                          Never played baseball, just a dad of someone that loves to play. So take any advice I post with a grain of salt.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pthawaii View Post
                            Personally, I'm pulling for JV. I think he'll play more there vs varsity where he'll be riding the bench.
                            Any coach that would escalate a Freshman to Varsity would be because the player could:

                            A) Out-hit the upperclassmen...
                            B) Out-pitch the upperclassmen...

                            It wouldn't be to ride pine...

                            You need to take the field position you think he should be playing out of the equation...
                            I don't like my balls to smell like pickles.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pthawaii View Post
                              He is someone that does well with objective goals.

                              I should make it clear he isnt competing for a varsity spot right now. He is just working his butt off to get better. It's very doubtful that he even gets an invite to tryout for varsity.
                              Here might be another way to look at it, and put things into perspective....

                              We've all heard the old saying, "A man among boys"....and that's what a freshman player has to look like against his freshman teammates and all of the returning players to ever get even the slightest thought for consideration or and "invite" to tryout for the varsity squad from the coaches.

                              Of the 11 years I was associated with our HS program, there were only three freshman players brought up to varsity, and one of them only lasted the first few weeks of the season before being sent back down to JV.

                              One of the other two was of slightly above average height but thin build (6'0'/145) and a PO, who as a freshman was throwing in the low 80's but with pretty nasty breaking stuff, and surprisingly good control with all of his pitches for his age. He did just OK that year, and pretty much held his own on just a pretty mediocre staff. His following three seasons he was again "just average", and never really developed into the player he was "projected" to be as a freshman. In all honesty, I believe that in any other year, he would have pitched on probably/maybe JV as a freshman, but since the pitching staff that year on varsity was so relatively weak, the VHC was just looking for any arms he could send out there, that wouldn't hurt the team too badly, and pulled him up there.

                              The other was a true legit freshman varsity player, and one of those obvious "men among boys" kind of players against the freshman (and even JV). Not the biggest of stature (5'10"/165) that year, but an early maturer who noticeably out muscled this freshman counterparts. He however suddenly became just "average" on varsity that year build and talent wise, and didn't get the playing time that he too was projected to get...and transferred out the following year to play elsewhere. He did well at the other school earning all-league honors three times, all-area honors twice, and an all-state 2nd team selection his senior season, went on to pitch well in college, and is now pitching in the Indians organization as a 24th round selection out of college.

                              But that was it, no other freshman stood out head, and shoulders above the varsity players in all those years, and why it's easy for me to remember each of them. Now there was a larger group of freshman that did play JV ball their first year at the school. Some did well, and played varsity their next three years at the HS, but there was also a good many of them who didn't impress at the JV level their freshman seasons, and played their sophomore seasons again on JV as well.

                              So unless your son is one of those "men among boys", and while shooting for varsity is an admirable goal...I don't believe it's a realistic one, and he might be advised to shoot for a more attainable one of making the JV team his freshman season, or even just that of earning a starting position on the freshman team depending on where is ranks now amongst his grade level peers.


                              Best of wishes of success in reaching his goals no matter what they turn out to be,
                              mud -
                              In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

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