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  • Where has common sense gone?

    I was talking to a dad who has a son playing middle school ball. He wanted my advice on which team his son should play on in TB. His son plays on a decent area TB but it stays local. Local means the St. Louis area which has some really good programs. He mentioned that another family is changing to a super dee duper team that travels all around the country. He said that they have a recruitment process in order and will get their players scholarships. He said that they have an "expert" in this field. He mentioned that the fees are twice as much but the return is in the scholarship monies his son will earn. He has been told this by the "expert" who want this pitcher/ss to play on the super dee duper TB team.

    While I know this parent and have for a long time, no matter how much common sense information I shared, he seemed to have a rational for why I was wrong. For example, I mentioned that his son was in either 7th or 8th grade and that no one can guarantee his son a scholarship regardless of age but it is ridiculous to think that someone could at that age. He wanted to give examples of players who got scholarships. I mentioned things like growth factors. He said that his son will grow. Well, you get the point. I guess if you are willing to pay the roughly $20,000 for four years to take a chance on getting that big ride, more power to you. Where has common sense gone?
    Granny said Sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what. Because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not.

    I am an ex expert. I've done this long enough to know that those who think that they know it all, know nothing.

  • #2
    529s are so boooring. If you're in a good area, I don't get the traveling around other than the team bonding trips to like Vegas or Spring Training (which honestly are probably more for the parents).

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    • #3
      Originally posted by mattun View Post
      529s are so boooring. If you're in a good area, I don't get the traveling around other than the team bonding trips to like Vegas or Spring Training (which honestly are probably more for the parents).
      True that. Does my son love it when we do a summer weekend in a hotel/motel with his all-star team? Sure. Does he have less fun because "travel" means driving down the freeway from L.A. County to Orange County? Nope.

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      • #4
        Baseball is not an investment. Parents cannot grasp that. If you play baseball for an investment so let say that you shell out $400 per month (private lessons/team costs) per year for 5 years that is $24,000 with 0% interest. If school is $6500 per semester and you get a 25% scholarship or $1625 per semester x8 semesters or $13,000 worth of education. So you paid $24,000 for $13,000 of education gotcha.
        How about you play baseball because you can't live without playing baseball. That is the only way it is really worth it.

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        • #5
          What's the saying about a fool and his money?

          Having gone through TB/recruitment with my son and being involved to a smaller extent with my nephew, I'll agree that the connections that a coach/org have can be important, but at that age, a vast majority of kids should be playing local with their friends, having fun, working hard, getting better. If you're going to "pay for exposure", wait until he's established himself as a legitimate prospect, which for many kids is Soph/Jr year. I have no problem with parents spending some money for exposure when it's warranted, but before that it's just throwing money down the drain.

          Ty Cobb-"Every great batter works on the theory that the pitcher is more afraid of him than he is of the pitcher."

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Vette74 View Post
            play baseball because you can't live without playing baseball.
            Love that!

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            • #7
              Rare do you see showcase-selling in 12U-14U, but it does exist. If he has the means, I say go for it as long as he's not taking a second mortgage out and/or will come to you for money to help. Could it help? Sure. Getting a name in the pipeline isn't a bad thing if he's an earl, but as you've pointed out there is sooo much growth that occurs in middle school. My kid is a 14U, 5'2" and 110lbs and playing with kids that are over 6' and shaving twice a week. He's counting the new hairs on a daily basis I think (poor kid), but things could look completely different

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              • #8
                I know that kids on super duper teams, but they typically have fundraisers and the costs are fairly low. They are either early developers at the MS aged years, or once in high school, they are truly top notch teams. However, playing on them in the MS age doesn't guarantee playing in HS, since some of those early developers get caught and then they are just good. The money for scholarship thing is a complete scam, though, that parents I know have fell for. My favorite is a local team that was super duper for a few years, but is now just average, where the coach tells parents that their kids can get drafted out of high school if they are developed correctly. Some parents just eat that stuff up.

                On the other hand, playing against high level pitching that you face in high level tournaments does open eyes. On our team, when we played against it, some good kids seem overmatched, but some step up to the challenge.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Vette74 View Post
                  Baseball is not an investment. Parents cannot grasp that. If you play baseball for an investment so let say that you shell out $400 per month (private lessons/team costs) per year for 5 years that is $24,000 with 0% interest. If school is $6500 per semester and you get a 25% scholarship or $1625 per semester x8 semesters or $13,000 worth of education. So you paid $24,000 for $13,000 of education gotcha.
                  How about you play baseball because you can't live without playing baseball. That is the only way it is really worth it.
                  ^^^ This ^^^
                  +1
                  In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

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                  • #10
                    When my kids were in middle school I didn’t care if they could compete on a national level. The best way to know you’re a possible national prospect is to be approached about playing for a national college prospect team. This happened to my daughter for the summer after freshman year. She played 18u Gold. It happenened for my son the summer after soph year. He played 17u. They were both fifteen when they started playing for these teams.

                    My son was recruited for an elite national soccer program when he was a preteen.The sales pitch included all their players received D1 scholarships. The stammering started when I asked how many U12 players are still in the program at U18.

                    Arsenal is a national powerhouse program in our area. From playing them so many times focally from 13u to 16u I got to know a couple of the dads. Only four players from the 13u A team made the 17u A team.

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                    • #11
                      One of the arguments parents give is if you don’t get on a top travel team in a top program at an early age the kid won’t get to play college ball. If a kid is a D1 prospect the showcase teams seek out the plrayers who can play. If a kid is a D3 prospect the best strategy isn’t playing for a top program in front of D1 coaches.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cannonball View Post
                        I was talking to a dad who has a son playing middle school ball. He wanted my advice on which team his son should play on in TB. His son plays on a decent area TB but it stays local. Local means the St. Louis area which has some really good programs. He mentioned that another family is changing to a super dee duper team that travels all around the country. He said that they have a recruitment process in order and will get their players scholarships. He said that they have an "expert" in this field. He mentioned that the fees are twice as much but the return is in the scholarship monies his son will earn. He has been told this by the "expert" who want this pitcher/ss to play on the super dee duper TB team.

                        While I know this parent and have for a long time, no matter how much common sense information I shared, he seemed to have a rational for why I was wrong. For example, I mentioned that his son was in either 7th or 8th grade and that no one can guarantee his son a scholarship regardless of age but it is ridiculous to think that someone could at that age. He wanted to give examples of players who got scholarships. I mentioned things like growth factors. He said that his son will grow. Well, you get the point. I guess if you are willing to pay the roughly $20,000 for four years to take a chance on getting that big ride, more power to you. Where has common sense gone?
                        I know people who are doing this with kids who are 11U. It blows my mind. Must be nice to have money and time to burn.
                        Coaching experience: Managed 5 Little League teams and coached on 4 others. So, what do I know?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cannonball View Post
                          I was talking to a dad who has a son playing middle school ball. He wanted my advice on which team his son should play on in TB. His son plays on a decent area TB but it stays local. Local means the St. Louis area which has some really good programs. He mentioned that another family is changing to a super dee duper team that travels all around the country. He said that they have a recruitment process in order and will get their players scholarships. He said that they have an "expert" in this field. He mentioned that the fees are twice as much but the return is in the scholarship monies his son will earn. He has been told this by the "expert" who want this pitcher/ss to play on the super dee duper TB team.

                          While I know this parent and have for a long time, no matter how much common sense information I shared, he seemed to have a rational for why I was wrong. For example, I mentioned that his son was in either 7th or 8th grade and that no one can guarantee his son a scholarship regardless of age but it is ridiculous to think that someone could at that age. He wanted to give examples of players who got scholarships. I mentioned things like growth factors. He said that his son will grow. Well, you get the point. I guess if you are willing to pay the roughly $20,000 for four years to take a chance on getting that big ride, more power to you. Where has common sense gone?
                          Lotteries exist. Casinos exist. If everyone made decisions based on rational, math-based analysis, lotteries and casinos would not exist.

                          Nor would a youth baseball industry exist. It's just a different kind of lottery ticket, though probably most parents think they are investing $10k+/year in their children's future, not buying lottery tickets.

                          I spend around $1,500/year on my son's baseball when everything is added up, and this is the first year our family went over that by a significant amount. My (probably stupid) rationalization for such high expense is that it's about what my parents spent on me for music lessons from ages 10-18.
                          Last edited by JoeG; 09-11-2018, 11:32 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JoeG View Post
                            I spend around $1,500/year on my son's baseball when everything is added up, and this is the first year our family when over that by a significant amount. My (probably stupid) rationalization for such high expense is that it's about what my parents spent on me for music lessons from ages 10-18.
                            I would rather spend [mumble] a year on baseball (stuff) knowing that it puts my kid in a spot where he's being physically active, learning social, coping and leadership skills, and putting him in a spot where I know what he's doing and who he's doing it with...rather than not spend (and save) money while he's hanging out by the dumpsters behind the local Walmart with a bunch hoods that I know nothing about...smoking dope...because he's bored with nothing to do, no goals to work towards, etc.

                            When I think of it that way, the [mumble] each year is money well spent and I have no regrets.

                            THAT SAID, there's a limit. These people treating small field kids like they are D-1 prospects are throwing away money. But, I guess that's up to them...
                            Coaching experience: Managed 5 Little League teams and coached on 4 others. So, what do I know?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Francis7 View Post

                              I would rather spend [mumble] a year on baseball (stuff) knowing that it puts my kid in a spot where he's being physically active, learning social, coping and leadership skills, and putting him in a spot where I know what he's doing and who he's doing it with...rather than not spend (and save) money while he's hanging out by the dumpsters behind the local Walmart with a bunch hoods that I know nothing about...smoking dope...because he's bored with nothing to do, no goals to work towards, etc.

                              When I think of it that way, the [mumble] each year is money well spent and I have no regrets.

                              THAT SAID, there's a limit. These people treating small field kids like they are D-1 prospects are throwing away money. But, I guess that's up to them...
                              Yes - good way to put it. And that's why we also provide financial support for our kids to get music lessons, participate in after-hours school activities, etc.

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