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Glenohumeral Internal Rotation Deficit (GIRD)

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  • Glenohumeral Internal Rotation Deficit (GIRD)

    Anyone have any experience with GIRD? (I thought FP26 once mentioned his kid had it?) Any and all information on it would be appreciated! (And, yes, I've heard of google. Just wondering what people's personal experiences with it here were like...)
    Coaching experience: Managed 5 Little League teams and coached on 4 others. So, what do I know?

  • #2
    I do not, but Mike Reinold has many articles on it, and it's covered extensively in his book.

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    • #3
      is it like acid reflux? TUMS will do the trick. Maybe a proton pump blocker as well.

      but seriously, isn't this an inability to properly lay back the arm when throwing. Driveline has some info on it.

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      • #4
        Just to give some more context. About 2 months ago, my son was diagnosed with rotator cuff tendonitis. He rested. He did PT for 4 weeks. And, then he started a return to throwing program. Recently, he said it was hurting a bit. So, we took him to a different orthopedist who did some range of movement tests on him. In terms of external rotation of his throwing arm, he has more range of movement there compared to his left arm. Basically, it means he can bring his right arm back further than his left. But, his range of movement with respect to internal rotation of the throwing arm is less than with his left arm. The orthopedist said this is a common thing with over-hand sports – that the range in the arm used shifts, allowing more in the back and less in the front. (He never mentioned GIRD. I found it later when I started looking things up.) The new ortho did not recommend PT. He said that rest and internal rotation stretching exercises should be done. And, once he improved the internal rotation range of movement, it would take away the pain in his shoulder.

        I was just curious how common this was, what people did, and if it worked – short and long term.
        Coaching experience: Managed 5 Little League teams and coached on 4 others. So, what do I know?

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        • #5
          DD is improving her range of motion, and it seems to be helping her shoulder issues. Basically GIRD is a reduction in the range of motion in throwing athletes. This reduction can lead to other issues. According to articles I have read, it does seem like some MLB teams have been focusing more on it lately.
          "Once you stop learning, you start dying" -- Albert Einstein.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by FP26 View Post
            DD is improving her range of motion, and it seems to be helping her shoulder issues. Basically GIRD is a reduction in the range of motion in throwing athletes. This reduction can lead to other issues. According to articles I have read, it does seem like some MLB teams have been focusing more on it lately.
            What type of stuff has she been doing to improve it and for how long?
            Coaching experience: Managed 5 Little League teams and coached on 4 others. So, what do I know?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by bluedawg View Post
              is it like acid reflux? TUMS will do the trick. Maybe a proton pump blocker as well.

              but seriously, isn't this an inability to properly lay back the arm when throwing. Driveline has some info on it.
              Arm layback is external rotation. GIRD means you can't move the arm as far in the opposite direction as a "normal" person could.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Francis7 View Post
                Just to give some more context. About 2 months ago, my son was diagnosed with rotator cuff tendonitis. He rested. He did PT for 4 weeks. And, then he started a return to throwing program. Recently, he said it was hurting a bit. So, we took him to a different orthopedist who did some range of movement tests on him. In terms of external rotation of his throwing arm, he has more range of movement there compared to his left arm. Basically, it means he can bring his right arm back further than his left. But, his range of movement with respect to internal rotation of the throwing arm is less than with his left arm. The orthopedist said this is a common thing with over-hand sports – that the range in the arm used shifts, allowing more in the back and less in the front. (He never mentioned GIRD. I found it later when I started looking things up.) The new ortho did not recommend PT. He said that rest and internal rotation stretching exercises should be done. And, once he improved the internal rotation range of movement, it would take away the pain in his shoulder.

                I was just curious how common this was, what people did, and if it worked – short and long term.
                Is the orthopedist a sports orthopedist? When my son got injured I took him to Hahnemann. They are the specialists for the pro teams in the area. His ortho also saw pro athletes.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by JettSixty View Post
                  Is the orthopedist a sports orthopedist? When my son got injured I took him to Hahnemann. They are the specialists for the pro teams in the area. His ortho also saw pro athletes.
                  Yup. He is part of the practice that treats the Low A affiliate for the Phillies.

                  Coaching experience: Managed 5 Little League teams and coached on 4 others. So, what do I know?

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                  • #10
                    My son has gird. He was doing variation of the sleeper stretch with less stress on the shoulder but his trainer who is also a DPT showed me his his gird is from a deficiency in his posture and back muscle more than the layback from throwing and the sleeper stretch is not treating the cause. After 2 weeks on his program (a variety of workouts), his range of motion greatly improved. There is still a rotational deficit.

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                    • #11
                      Here is a quick and dirty test that most older past baseball players will fail. If your young player fails, start a program.take your non throwing arm and reach behind your back, go up as far as you can go (try to touch the back of you neck, palm facing behind u) most will get to mid scapular area. Now do with ur throwing arm? Can go as high? You have some level of pathology in the shoulder (likely lacking IR) spine is same for both arms so that is out of the equation.
                      Never played baseball, just a dad of someone that loves to play. So take any advice I post with a grain of salt.

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                      • #12
                        Francis7

                        “Anyone have any experience with GIRD?”
                        Yes and it's not all it's cracked up to be, the throwing and pitching motion that most use (traditional”outside of vertical”) never allows end of range of motion at any time during lengthening (closer to it) or shortening (ball release long before end of range of motion), nor even while recovering your arm. Marshall approach “inside of vertical” lat. throwers come close to end of range of motion of the Humerus by having the shoulders and Humerus maintain alignment through out, plus the Humerus is slowed way down at this point.

                        Seems professional rehabbers and strength coaches are still hung up on bi-lateral asymmetry where muscles and bones should be equal from side to side
                        (this helps back health)
                        , while at the same time knowing that there is always large variance “sport specifically” because of job performance that leaves us with dominant sides and non-dominant sides with lesser robust parts, hence lesser range of motion in the robust side.

                        “Any and all information on it would be appreciated!”
                        Here is what the leading kinesiological expert say's! Dr. Mike Marshall;

                        GIRD stands for Gleno-humeral Internal (inward) Rotation Deficit. Some erroneously blame the posterior, inferior gleno-humeral ligaments. However, the cause is the inability of the muscles that externally (outwardly) rotate the Humerus bone of the pitching upper arm.

                        The ability of baseball pitchers to inwardly rotate their pitching upper arm has nothing to do with either imagined impingement. However, when orthopedic surgeons operate on the back of the pitching shoulders of baseball pitchers, such as to relieve 'internal impingement,' they actually decrease the ability of baseball pitchers to inwardly rotate their pitching upper arm.

                        When baseball pitchers learn how to powerfully pronate their pitching forearm before, during and after release, they also learn how to use their Teres Major and Latissimus Dorsi muscles to inwardly rotate their pitching upper arm. This eliminates GIRD.

                        I intended my definition of GIRD to show that there is no such thing. My wrist weight exercises will enable the muscles that inwardly and outwardly rotate the Humerus bone of the pitching upper arm to whatever range of motion that you need. Like shaving the underside of the acromion process, this is a phony malady.


                        Primum non nocere

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sparkny2 View Post
                          My son has gird. He was doing variation of the sleeper stretch with less stress on the shoulder but his trainer who is also a DPT showed me his his gird is from a deficiency in his posture and back muscle more than the layback from throwing and the sleeper stretch is not treating the cause. After 2 weeks on his program (a variety of workouts), his range of motion greatly improved. There is still a rotational deficit.
                          Thanks. I wonder if it's a catcher's thing - since both our kids came down with it...maybe something to do with the catcher's throwing motion?

                          Coaching experience: Managed 5 Little League teams and coached on 4 others. So, what do I know?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Dirtberry - thanks. I wish that I could understand that! Is there a way to put it in simple/stupid terms for the laymen?
                            Coaching experience: Managed 5 Little League teams and coached on 4 others. So, what do I know?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Francis7 View Post
                              Thanks. I wonder if it's a catcher's thing - since both our kids came down with it...maybe something to do with the catcher's throwing motion?
                              Maybe, but our kids throw hard...and a lot.

                              Comment

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