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Thoughts on this video regarding loading?

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  • Thoughts on this video regarding loading?

    Our local baseball facility has been teaching my son to load like what this video is advocating to load. They are asking him to take his hands back like this guy in the video. However, I’ve notice my son starting to arm bar now since taking a few lessons with them and his swing speed seems slower. His rotational swing I taught him is starting to disappear and I feel this load is or has been causing issues. Do you guys think the way this guy is instructing is correct? I actually believe the “wrong” way in the video is the better method. Please share thoughts and ideas...trying to stop this before he commits it to muscle memory.

    video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LNF-IcT3Id0


  • #2
    Didn't watch it all but looks like the guy doesn't want a inward coil.

    I'm still learning myself but
    The guys you should listen to on this forum will tell you to coil in as you stride out and not just push the hands back.

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    • #3
      I watched a video of myself in the batting cage fighting to load my hands up instead of back. I made consistent and hard contact when I loaded my hands just up, even a small bit. When I wrapped the bat by moving up and back, I either missed the pitch completely or made horrible contact that would have gotten me out. The issue can be several things, like causing arm bar and making it hard to get on plane with the ball and/or made my swing longer by adding to the overall radius of the swing.

      There are some well intentioned coaches but can do more harm than good. Don't let this continue. If your son is going to load, load only up and swing not up and back. While I think they are trying to ensure your son coils, there are ways without incorporating arm bar.


      Notice how Bonds lift his hands up before his front foot plants and swings. His bat may start vertical, but as it begins to swing, it's no longer vertical. He also keeps his hips close before the pitch comes and fires away.

      Pujols has a more noticeable coil while loading. You can see his front knee move inward and his belt loops/uniform rotates towards the catchers body before he unloads into the pitch. But his hands are moving towards the catcher or turning away.

      Then there's Bryce Harper who coils and loads like a monster and hits the ball hard. But you'll never see an instance where his hands are back/moving towards the catcher, only rising up as his uniform, most noticeably, the number 3 on his back becomes more visible to the pitcher.

      ​​​​​
      Do this and the ball will go far, without compromising your son's swing. Hope the coaching lesson doesn't stick.

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      • #4
        Coiling inward as you stride forward is a must. Without seeing any video of your son my best guess is he is likely loading his hands too far back, almost like he is pushing them back, causing the arm bar. When I look at the video you posted the first player that came to mind was Acuna. The difference that I see though is Acuna is not pushing his hands back but rather walking away from them and as he moves forward his hands move slightly up to a power hitting position. I think this might be a case of the instructor trying to teach the load like Acuna and thinking Acuna is pushing his hands back when all he is doing is walking away from them IMO.

        Living in Georgia and following the braves there is always talks about Acuna's swing. Now if don't follow Acuna closely you wouldn't know that he used to have his hands set high in his stance and when he loaded his hands moved slight downward. He was hitting like this the first half of this season prior to the All Star break. During the break they changed his stance slightly to have him start with his hands lower and work slight up and he took off and won Rookie of the Year.

        Per All Star Break Hands Hight (This is a minor league video but it was his same stance the when he got called up)




        Corrections made Post All Star break (Only real change was his hand placement)

        Last edited by coachrjb; 11-27-2018, 06:33 AM.
        Instagram: gavin_thereal34

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        • #5
          He is halfway right with the problem and halfway right with the answer.

          A problem is that the hands are going back/behind the body. The other half of the 'problem' that he hasn't noticed is that the back elbow shouldn't go back/behind the body.

          His answer is to only put the hands in a certain position (his red line is a decent idea). However, he totally doesn't understand that his back forearm is vertical during the load.

          His answer creates two problems of their own. His hands are behind the back elbow at 'toe touch' which is bat drag. Plus, his back forearm is near vertical, which is the position AFTER the first haklf of the swing (he loses all early bat speed), and ends up 'pushing' the bat toward the ball.

          If you take the back elbow back toward the catcher, it fixes the elbow and the hands. Note, this is hard to do when you first learn to coil in the shoulder and hip, as most want to wrap the hands/elbow behind their body.
          efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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          • #6
            modal: "But you'll never see an instance where his hands are back/moving towards the catcher,"



            Take a look at some laflippin videos with catcher view and notice the hands and back elbow tend to go toward the catcher as the hip/shoulder coils in. The hands don't really go behind the neck as a vertical line.
            efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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            • #7
              Yes, they are having him push his hands back towards the catcher while stepping forward with his lead leg. What's happening is he's not able to turn and his arm is barring as he tries to swing.

              Here is him at a training session taking front toss.



              Here's him hitting off the tee with me trying to correct his swing. I think the hitting coach is trying to work out his sway back at the beginning of the hitting sequence. I've also noticed he hits off the tee differently compared to when he gets pitched. We probably just need more BP with live tossing. Do you guys think telling him to load with his back shoulder instead of his hands will be a better queue for him? I feel like he over exaggerates when the hitting coach tells him to take his hands back. I almost want to explain to him to load like Josh Donaldson and focus on swinging with his shoulders following his hip rotation. I"m not sure, just a Dad learning and enjoying this journey with his son. All thoughts are welcome. He's still young (7 year old) but we'd like to stop bad habits from forming in these young years. Thanks in advance for all the feedback.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by songtitle View Post
                modal: "But you'll never see an instance where his hands are back/moving towards the catcher,"



                Take a look at some laflippin videos with catcher view and notice the hands and back elbow tend to go toward the catcher as the hip/shoulder coils in. The hands don't really go behind the neck as a vertical line.
                I should rephrase my sentence to the player not actively trying to load their hands back and facing the catcher since if done incorrectly, it creates huge bat drag/bat wrap and I had that error myself as a hitter. Better remedy is load up and that's it.

                The video also makes it difficult to see how much Chipper Jones or any hitter is rotating inward in relation to the hands/bat and if they are staying still because it's mostly vertical. I prefer using a side view to analyze hitting since both vertical and horizontal direction isn't hard to tell. I think Jose Bautista is a better example of moving elbow back to the catcher, but never wrapping the bat where he can't hit the ball anymore.

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                • #9
                  20181127-yaajer.JPG
                  "they are having him push his hands back towards the catcher while stepping forward with his lead leg."

                  He is doing what they instructed with the hands. However, the back elbow should go back toward the catcher. Notice the back forearm is vertical (that's bad).

                  Plus, don't stride forward with the lead leg. That's bad, or not very useful. Stride forward with the rear leg.

                  Plus, he isn't coiling inwards with his hips and shoulders at all as he goes forward.

                  The instruction is destructive.
                  Last edited by songtitle; 11-27-2018, 08:04 AM.
                  efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Modal94 View Post
                    The video also makes it difficult to see how much Chipper Jones or any hitter is rotating inward
                    If you study catcher views you'll notice they (almost every good MLB hitter) rotate hips/shoulders 40 deg +. Chipper, like some start out somewhat coiled. He coils in slightly further as he goes. (Watch the stripe to see the hip rotate/coil around the spine - not the rear leg)

                    20181127-chipper-angle.JPG
                    Last edited by songtitle; 11-27-2018, 08:20 AM.
                    efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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                    • #11
                      Can you help explain "Stride forward with the rear leg." for me please? Thanks for the comments and we'll work on keeping his rear forearm horizontal.

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                      • #12
                        The rear leg starts out bent at knee, and rear heel on ground (not in air as is commonly taught). Stride until the rear knee/leg is almost fully extended so the radius of the turning/rotating knee is as small as possible (think conservation of angular rmomentum, or ice skaters) when you want the hips to begin to rotate or coil OUT (near toe touch).

                        Do the exact same thing in pitching.

                        The extension of the front leg during the stride doesn't assist any part of the swing forward. Having the shin much past vertical at toe touch (or landing in pitching) 'can' be detrimental.

                        Please note that a couple (almost all do though) of MLB hitters do NOT swing like this all the time, like Josh Donaldson. Sometimes he keeps his knee bent and his swing is based on his front leg. Sometimes he does it like I describe above.
                        Last edited by songtitle; 11-27-2018, 08:46 AM.
                        efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by songtitle View Post

                          If you study catcher views you'll notice they (almost every good MLB hitter) rotate hips/shoulders 40 deg +. Chipper, like some start out somewhat coiled. He coils in slightly further as he goes. (Watch the stripe to see the hip rotate/coil around the spine - not the rear leg)

                          20181127-chipper-angle.JPG
                          Got it, I don't see too many catcher views since side views make it easy for the whole hands, hips, leg action. While on that note, I do see what you mean. All good hitters either coil inward, or at the very least, keep their hips closed before swing ala prince fielder but coiling is an important part to the game.

                          As for the first video, son is definitely dragging the bat and making his swing longer by having it behind his back shoulder, compared to the T. I'm on mobile so can't rewind the video without it redirecting me to youtube but I do like how the bat is close to his body on the second video compared to the first one. If son can load only up and keep that rotational swing without the arm bar, I think he'll make a huge difference in distance and contact rate.

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                          • #14
                            Walking away from the hands isn't very good instruction, IMHO.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Yaajer View Post
                              Yes, they are having him push his hands back towards the catcher while stepping forward with his lead leg. What's happening is he's not able to turn and his arm is barring as he tries to swing.

                              Here's him hitting off the tee with me trying to correct his swing. I think the hitting coach is trying to work out his sway back at the beginning of the hitting sequence. I've also noticed he hits off the tee differently compared to when he gets pitched. We probably just need more BP with live tossing. Do you guys think telling him to load with his back shoulder instead of his hands will be a better queue for him? I feel like he over exaggerates when the hitting coach tells him to take his hands back. I almost want to explain to him to load like Josh Donaldson and focus on swinging with his shoulders following his hip rotation. I"m not sure, just a Dad learning and enjoying this journey with his son. All thoughts are welcome. He's still young (7 year old) but we'd like to stop bad habits from forming in these young years. Thanks in advance for all the feedback.
                              I think I can relate better than most on here, not because I'm any hitting guru, but our sons are only a year apart and I been where you are within the last year. At this age, he will always have a tee swing better than a swing during BP. You have to ask yourself, what's easier to hit, a ball not moving on a tee or a ball moving? The answer is not more BP either. If he have "bad" flaws, and I would say the arm bar is what I would consider a bad flaw, along with bat drag, you work on fixing that on a tee. I've been through it all. When I was working on fixing the same flaws he would work on a tee for about a month. We never did any live hitting until we fixed it off the tee. If he is doing it on a tee wrong then you are not fixing anything but just doing live BP. Work off the tee and get it right there and then progress to front toss and BP. As for telling him to load like donalson. He will never fully understand what you are talking about at 7 years old. You will explain everything to him, ask you if he understands and 9 times out of 10 he will say yes, but he doesn't. Trust me on that one. Take it slow and work at his own pace. At 7 I assume you are stilling doing coach pitch so you have plenty of time, don't rush it.
                              Last edited by coachrjb; 11-27-2018, 12:04 PM.
                              Instagram: gavin_thereal34

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