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  • Mike Schmidt

    I'd like to start a thread based on Mike Schmidts' swing. I had a very long drawn out conversation with a Phillies instructor today and he made reference to how Schmidt taught hitting. He wanted all of his kids to chop down on the ball and actually did a drill where he threw chest high tosses and had them come over the top of the ball and chop it in the ground. Why? Because he said he had a hall of fame career doing just that.

    I'd like for you guys to try and find as many clips of him hitting so we can see if in fact he did that, or thought he did that.

  • #2
    HG:

    I'll have to get to another computer to come up w/ some clips. I do know that what Schmidt has always SAID about his swing is rather different that what most would perceive to be reality (he seems to describe a rather linear swing). Whether or not his swing was ACTUALLY much different is definitely worth discussing, IMO.

    Best regards,

    Scott

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    • #3
      He said "finish low" Watched some college players this weekend setup with the bat vertical, no scap load and just inside/ out throw the barrel down at outside pitches . They were waiting on FB away to hit away. Interesting
      Last edited by swingbuster; 02-19-2006, 06:12 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by swingbuster
        He said "finish low" Watched some college players this weekend setup with the bat vertical, no scap load and just inside/ out throw the barrel down at outside pitches . They were waiting on FB away to hit away. Interesting

        Doesn't seem like the most efficient way to go about batting :noidea

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        • #5
          Originally posted by hiddengem
          I'd like to start a thread based on Mike Schmidts' swing. I had a very long drawn out conversation with a Phillies instructor today and he made reference to how Schmidt taught hitting. He wanted all of his kids to chop down on the ball and actually did a drill where he threw chest high tosses and had them come over the top of the ball and chop it in the ground. Why? Because he said he had a hall of fame career doing just that.

          I'd like for you guys to try and find as many clips of him hitting so we can see if in fact he did that, or thought he did that.
          Today, I spoke with my friend who played 7 years in MLB, and asked him why most pro hitting instructors are worthless, and he said, "They usually just teach you to hit however they hit when they played."

          Makes sense as to how Dave Hudgens, a poor minor league hitter, could screw up an All-star swing of Eric Chavez.

          Next question is; why would, or do, successful MLB hitters listen to a hitting instructor who tells them to swing drastically different from what got them to the Bigs?

          Seems to me, that a MLB instructor should learn each hitters swing and know when that hitter has accidentally changed something, rather than try to get them to hit differently.

          In the minors, I suppose it's the instructor's job to help the player get to the Big League, but still, he shouldn't drastically change a decent hitter.

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          • #6
            Doesn't seem like the most efficient way to go about batting
            Probably not but neither is trying to pull everything. Over the course of a season I figure good oppo mechanics would yield more RBIs and hits if you had to have a certain tendency. It seemed that these two kids might be in the line up because they could handle the FB away

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            • #7
              Yeah, a lot of instructors teach kids the way they have been taught, and believe that THAT is the only way they can reach the top. It'd be like a pitching instructor telling a kid to stride at 50% of their height because they did it and they pitched in college and was taught that by the college's pitching coach. It's all belief based stuff and only being taught by some because it's just what they have been taught. They don't ask why or how come.
              While I do prefer to interact with people in a gentle manner... I'm also not at all opposed to establishing my dominance in a reign of terror.

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              • #8
                I don't have video, but here's a pdf of some Mike Schmidt swings. I'm not an expert, but it doesn't look like he's chopping here...

                http://www.corporatedrones.com/ms.pdf (file's big, may take a minute to download)


                I've got more pictures if you want them.
                Last edited by pgibbons; 02-19-2006, 07:26 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by pgibbons
                  I don't have video, but here's a pdf of some Mike Schmidt swings. I'm not an expert, but it doesn't look like he's chopping here...

                  http://www.corporatedrones.com/ms.pdf (file's big, may take a minute to download)


                  I've got more pictures if you want them.
                  Those are great, thanks. If you have more, I'd like to see them all. Any videos of his swing out there, ideally from the side?

                  By the looks of those pictures it doesn't appear that he chopped at all, all he did was finish low like Buster said.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jbooth
                    Today, I spoke with my friend who played 7 years in MLB, and asked him why most pro hitting instructors are worthless, and he said, "They usually just teach you to hit however they hit when they played."

                    Makes sense as to how Dave Hudgens, a poor minor league hitter, could screw up an All-star swing of Eric Chavez.

                    Next question is; why would, or do, successful MLB hitters listen to a hitting instructor who tells them to swing drastically different from what got them to the Bigs?

                    Seems to me, that a MLB instructor should learn each hitters swing and know when that hitter has accidentally changed something, rather than try to get them to hit differently.

                    In the minors, I suppose it's the instructor's job to help the player get to the Big League, but still, he shouldn't drastically change a decent hitter.
                    This is precisley why I think Mickey Hatcher is a great hitting coach. Lets face it, he wasn't a great hitter. Battled with 2 strikes and just got it done.

                    But what makes him such a great hitting instructor in my mind is that before he ever says a word to a hitter, he ALWAYS looks at a ton of video when that particular hitter was hot and if he's struggling, trys to figure out what looks different when compared side by side.

                    The one thing he told me which I really had some success with. (I know some of you guys aren't going to like this, but it is what it is) He really wanted you to pop the head of the bat(snap your wrists) right before contact, and he wanted you to finish your "pop' with your bat pointing somewhere in the middle of the diamond.

                    I think Mick was a real handsy hitter, and I know one person who works dilligently on this is Chone Figgins. He's been pretty darn successful as a gap to gap type of hitter with occasional power, but thats not his game.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hiddengem
                      The one thing he told me which I really had some success with. (I know some of you guys aren't going to like this, but it is what it is) He really wanted you to pop the head of the bat(snap your wrists) right before contact, and he wanted you to finish your "pop' with your bat pointing somewhere in the middle of the diamond.

                      I think Mick was a real handsy hitter, and I know one person who works dilligently on this is Chone Figgins. He's been pretty darn successful as a gap to gap type of hitter with occasional power, but thats not his game.
                      I suspect the reason the "snap your wrists" cue worked is not because your hands/wrists were really able to contribute much to the swing, but because the cue "prompted" you to do something with your bat angle or your front side to cause your bat head to "unhinge" and "flail" forward at a more efficient time and more explosively.

                      I don't "hate" the cue, especially if it worked for you. Forturnately, you were (are) good enough to instinctively make the adjustments necessary to "snap your wrists" more efficiently. On the other hand, I think the cue can be very misleading for a hitter who has no clue how to set up his hands and rotate so as to cause his bat to "unhinge" efficiently.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hiddengem
                        This is precisley why I think Mickey Hatcher is a great hitting coach. Lets face it, he wasn't a great hitter. Battled with 2 strikes and just got it done.

                        But what makes him such a great hitting instructor in my mind is that before he ever says a word to a hitter, he ALWAYS looks at a ton of video when that particular hitter was hot and if he's struggling, trys to figure out what looks different when compared side by side.
                        This is what I think MLB and professional hitting coaches who don't fully understand how the body optimally swings a bat can do and actually have a chance at being successful in helping a high-level hitter: Helping him recover previously successful form by comparing successful swings with the present unsuccessful mutation. Ad hoc video analysis.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fungo22
                          I suspect the reason the "snap your wrists" cue worked is not because your hands/wrists were really able to contribute much to the swing, but because the cue "prompted" you to do something with your bat angle or your front side to cause your bat head to "unhinge" and "flail" forward at a more efficient time and more explosively.

                          I don't "hate" the cue, especially if it worked for you. Forturnately, you were (are) good enough to instinctively make the adjustments necessary to "snap your wrists" more efficiently. On the other hand, I think the cue can be very misleading for a hitter who has no clue how to set up his hands and rotate so as to cause his bat to "unhinge" efficiently.
                          Fungo, I was really hoping you would respond to this, as Steve has made some very nice remarks about your level of understanding.

                          I didn't get into why I thought it worked for me in hopes somebody would throw something out there first.

                          What I felt it did for me was really help me to get square to ball better. I had/have a tendancy to get lazy and underneath the ball, this seemed to really help me.

                          Could you possibly elaborate more on what you think it did to my front side(I have a bad tendancy to hip slide), bat angle and maybe describe "flail"

                          Thanks,
                          D

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by hiddengem
                            Fungo, I was really hoping you would respond to this, as Steve has made some very nice remarks about your level of understanding.
                            Then I should quit while I'm ahead. But I'll go ahead and remove whatever benefit of the doubt Steve's "nice remarks" might have gained me.

                            What I felt it did for me was really help me to get square to ball better. I had/have a tendancy to get lazy and underneath the ball
                            By "square to the ball," do you mean "slam the gate shut" at the end of rotation? I don't understand what you mean by "lazy" and "under the ball" ... unless you mean you disconnected and dropped your hands. Once your hands disconnect, you have lost efficient transfer of rotational momentum at the last instant through the hands and thus the sense of "snapping your wrists." But I'm just speculating and could be completely wrong about what you mean ... or wrong about a host of other things for that matter.

                            I heard a clip of your swing was posted over at Setpro but I never got to see it.

                            Could you possibly elaborate more on what you think it did to my front side (I have a bad tendancy to hip slide), bat angle and maybe describe "flail"
                            Again, I'm speculating without visual guidance, but hip slide is the opposite of what I'm talking about. My understanding of efficient "flail" or the "hook" (Englishbey's term - Nyman calls it the "fish hook" or "dog at the end of the leash") is generally informed by Englishbey (or my limited understanding and recollection thereof) and my own experimentation.

                            One vital element is the "stability" which the front hip must provide. The upper front leg and lower pelvic muscles must "block" or "resist" forward movement of the middle and provide a firm "hingle post" around which the "gate slams shut" at the end of rotation. Hips "drifting" forward during rotation will tend to thwart the efficiency of this action.

                            The "tilt around the corner" of the torso helps create the final torso angle in line with the front leg and also helps bring about this last instant "whipping" of the bat head into the ball. Or so it seems to me when I do it. Not to mention what the top hand, rear arm and shoulder contribute.

                            My initial conjecture was that the "wrist snap" cue caused your body to do what it needed to make your wrists "snap" - or at least fell like they were "snapping" into contact. I need to look at the DVD again to see where the guy with no ball cap talks about this front side - gate swinging shut action. I seem to remember it being in there somewhere among the tugboat horns, Blue Angel airshow and the small arms gunfights in the background.
                            Last edited by fungo22; 02-19-2006, 10:49 PM.

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                            • #15
                              I seem to remember it being in there somewhere among the tugboat horns, Blue Angel airshow and the small arms gunfights in the background.
                              Nice. Admittedly, nothing distracts the Man in Black. Although there is no point in calling him at 10:00pm on Tuesday nights.

                              Not unless your name is Cletus VanDam - and Greg, if you get THAT oblique reference, hats off. . .

                              Regards,

                              Scott

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