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  • Need Some Advice (Videos Included)

    mudvnine
    Cannonball
    songtitle

    And all others, I can't think of everyone's username to tag.


    I haven't posted for help in a while because the topic always seems to get off track because of his age, but I need some advice again from you all. For some reason this Spring my son is shortening his swing (Leg Kick, Load, Stride). I get it if we are facing faster velocity or a two strike approach, but this has been his game swing regardless of the count this season. He still has enough torque to get it through the IF, most of the time and some might say if he is hitting leave it alone. I have left it alone so far, haven't brought it up but the way the ball comes off his bat is different now then what it used to be because of this I believe.

    Yes, Velocity has gotten faster that we face, but this is every swing (fast or slow pitching). We don't always face faster pitchers.

    I know there are other mechanical issues in his swing; however, I want to ask about what I refer to as "coming out of his swing during stride". What I mean is his back leg seems to work more vertical than forward.

    He still hits, doesn't barrel like he's did in KP during the Fall and KP last Spring. Maybe what he is doing is not an issue. If coiling as he strides forward is the answer than we will keep working on it. If what I'm bring up is not seen as an issue then I'll move on. The first video and last video show the difference between now and fall,,,,and nothing has changed with his instruction/coaching.There was never a reason to hitting like he was hitting then. Maybe the simple answer is his timing is off and he needs to start a little early to give himself they time to go through his load sequence.

    Game Swing #1


    Game Swing #2


    Side View From a Recent Practice Live Hitting


    Cage BP Work Tuesday (Stays in his legs better)


    This Past Fall (Stayed loaded in his legs and hits a HR 215FT)
    Last edited by coachrjb; 05-16-2019, 07:09 AM.
    Instagram: gavin_thereal34

  • #2
    One major difference I see between the video of last fall and today's video is that your son seems to be coiling to excess. Take a look at his shoulders. He is showing too much of his back to the pitcher in my opinion. In doing so, by overcooking it, he has to lift off of that back leg to try to get the bat going. If I were his hitting coach, I would use a cue like bring the chin to the deltoid but with the idea of not rotating the shoulders too much. Also, I'd use a cue to get the front hip in the way to get it out of the way but do so by controlling the middle and not to the point that you go beyond a good stretch with the top side. I don't have much time to look now but this is a sense of what I see. We'll see what others see. As you know, I like his swing and better yet, his work ethic!
    Granny said Sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what. Because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not.

    I am an ex expert. I've done this long enough to know that those who think that they know it all, know nothing.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Cannonball View Post
      One major difference I see between the video of last fall and today's video is that your son seems to be coiling to excess. Take a look at his shoulders. He is showing too much of his back to the pitcher in my opinion. In doing so, by overcooking it, he has to lift off of that back leg to try to get the bat going. If I were his hitting coach, I would use a cue like bring the chin to the deltoid but with the idea of not rotating the shoulders too much. Also, I'd use a cue to get the front hip in the way to get it out of the way but do so by controlling the middle and not to the point that you go beyond a good stretch with the top side. I don't have much time to look now but this is a sense of what I see. We'll see what others see. As you know, I like his swing and better yet, his work ethic!
      I see that now, thanks!
      Instagram: gavin_thereal34

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm not seeing excess coiling. He could use more hip coil.
        - game swing#1 no coil either direction
        - game swing #2 small inward coil, then hands to ball
        - 'live hitting', shoulders coil in, but the hips coil out as he goes forward
        - 'cage', looks pretty good
        - 'fall', nice coil in, then drops elbow early, has bat drag, then pulls a ball (kids with bat drag can pull a ball if they extend their arms and get the bat head ahead of the hands - but this doesn't work as they get older when kids throw outside pitches and offspeed pitches outside))

        I think OP is focusing on the leg. Look at the hip only as far as coil/uncoil. The leg kick makes no difference one way or another.

        It seems to me like his recent stride is good enough, but he then tries to stab the bat at the ball (maybe he's hearing 'hands to the ball' cue?) and his arms take over the swing.
        Last edited by songtitle; 05-16-2019, 08:49 AM.
        efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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        • #5
          Originally posted by songtitle View Post
          I'm not seeing excess coiling. He could use more hip coil.
          - game swing#1 no coil either direction
          - game swing #2 small inward coil, then hands to ball
          - 'live hitting', shoulders coil in, but the hips coil out as he goes forward
          - 'cage', looks pretty good
          - 'fall', nice coil in, then drops elbow early, has bat drag, then pulls a ball (kids with bat drag can pull a ball if they extend their arms and get the bat head ahead of the hands - but this doesn't work as they get older when kids throw outside pitches and offspeed pitches outside))

          I think OP is focusing on the leg. Look at the hip only as far as coil/uncoil. The leg kick makes no difference one way or another.

          It seems to me like his recent stride is good enough, but he then tries to stab the bat at the ball (maybe he's hearing 'hands to the ball' cue?) and his arms take over the swing.
          I get the early drop/bat drag in the fall, but he was also just 8 year old then. He's gotten better at it as he's gotten a little older and stronger, but still not totally eliminated.

          I'm not a big cue guy so hands to the ball is never said. I have at times asked him to use his bottom hand more and pull instead of push,,,maybe that's wrong on my part.

          I agree, I don't care one way or another about the leg kick. He use to have a big one, now he doesn't really have much of one. I'm fine with whatever he is comfortable when it comes to the leg kick or lack of one. What I notice is he got more into his legs in the past but what looks like less into his legs now. Are you saying that what I think is him coming out of his legs (more vertical back leg) is not an issue at all? That the lack of coiling into his hip is the issue that causes the more vertical back leg? Sorry, just trying to follow.
          Last edited by coachrjb; 05-16-2019, 09:04 AM.
          Instagram: gavin_thereal34

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          • #6
            Bat 'drag' has nothing to do with age or strength. It's 100% technique. It's simply hands behind the elbow.

            I'm not sure what you're saying in your last sentence 'coming out of legs'. His back leg action looks right to me, but maybe I'm not focused on something you see. And I don't promote 'coiling into hip' since for me it doesn't work all the time (you can do this and not coil in). If it works for someone, then great. I promote simply turning the torso (hips/shoulders) 45 deg (I don't care if it takes a leg kick to your nose, or halfway, or none at all).

            BTW, the coil inward that he has right now is better than 90% of kids. Great start.
            Last edited by songtitle; 05-16-2019, 09:12 AM.
            efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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            • #7
              Originally posted by songtitle View Post
              Bat 'drag' has nothing to do with age or strength. It's 100% technique. It's simply hands behind the elbow.

              I'm not sure what you're saying in your last sentence 'coming out of legs'. His back leg action looks right to me, but maybe I'm not focused on something you see. And I don't promote 'coiling into hip' since for me it doesn't work all the time (you can do this and not coil in). If it works for someone, then great. I promote simply turning the torso (hips/shoulders) 45 deg (I don't care if it takes a leg kick to your nose, or halfway, or none at all).
              Yes, bat drag does have to do with technique, we are in agreement. What I mean is there are some techniques that are harder to do at 8 then 9,10 and up on. Some 8 year olds just can't grasp the correct body movements no matter how many times he does the coil correct in dry swings or tee, once the live action start it's different at that age. Some might can, but a majority need longer to perfect it. The older he gets the more understanding he has of the swing and what to do with his body that's why I said a year older he is got a lot better with less bat drag but it still shows up from time to time...

              But back on topic...I just meant that he seemed to be push up with is back leg than before and not striding forward as much with it, but if you think the back leg looks good then I take your word for it and will shift to focus to the hips.

              Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. That's why I tagged you. Just give it me to honestly....no bad feelings just helps me help him.
              Last edited by coachrjb; 05-16-2019, 09:28 AM.
              Instagram: gavin_thereal34

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by coachrjb View Post
                What I mean is there are some techniques that are harder to do at 8 then 9,10 and up on. Some 8 year olds just can't grasp the correct body movements no matter how many times he does the coil correct in dry swings or tee, once the live action start it's different at that age. Some might can, but a majority need longer to perfect it.
                Even though he may not be getting it perfectly, you are doing the right thing by keeping him away from destructive techniques/cues. So what may look like little progress is really great progress.
                efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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                • #9
                  Looks like he was using his upper back more last year, e.g. a bit more "elbowing somebody behind you". It was a bit rushed last year in the way he was doing it but he had a bit more of that action than he does now. Like I said in the other thread he may be feeling a bit rushed in the games. The current cage swing looks better in this regards.
                  Last edited by pattar; 05-16-2019, 09:35 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by pattar View Post
                    Looks like he was using his upper back more last year, e.g. a bit more "elbowing somebody behind you". It was a bit rushed last year in the way he was doing it but he had a bit more of that action than he does now. Like I said in the other thread he may be feeling a bit rushed in the games. The current cage swing has a tough angle to show this but is this better in his cage work?
                    I think so. I think he stays in his legs more, does a better job of holding his stretch and coiling forward correctly. The struggle is he is very very competitive so whenever we work on something "inward coil" for example he will be coiling better but might get on top or just under and he gets pissed with the result and then wants to say the coil is the reason. So he can be difficult at times so our pace is a lot slower than most because when he does get that upset we just pause for the day and just pick it back up another day.

                    Here are some pics from the cage swing...I'll have to find the full video I have it somewhere.

                    He also likes to fill his cheeks with air when swinging LOL

                    Screen Shot 2019-05-16 at 12.45.14 PM.png

                    Screen Shot 2019-05-16 at 12.45.32 PM.png

                    Screen Shot 2019-05-16 at 12.45.45 PM.png

                    Last edited by coachrjb; 05-16-2019, 09:52 AM.
                    Instagram: gavin_thereal34

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by coachrjb View Post

                      he will be coiling better but might get on top or just under and he gets pissed with the result and then wants to say the coil is the reason.
                      Take comfort in knowing my 9YO daughter does the same thing

                      With regards to using his upper back, look at Trout here:



                      You do certainly need to coil your hips but that can happen and you can still not be using the upper back properly.
                      Last edited by pattar; 05-16-2019, 09:55 AM.

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                      • #12
                        He's for whatever reason taken the "sit" out of his move out. You're basically already saying/seeing it when you say that he previously "Stayed loaded in his legs" but that now something looks different to you, and it is...his momentum is going "upwards" instead of "towards" the ball as much as he was before.

                        Because of this he's losing having his body get "through" the ball as he previously did...even though he still has his bat/barrel still getting "behind and through" it, and where he's losing a portion of his power into the ball...besides elevating/moving his head in the process that once he starts seeing good breaking pitches...it will make them seem to break even more than that really are.

                        EDIT: Since Pattar posted Trout's swing while I was typing...take a look at how he stays "down", "lowers" or "sits" through his "move out" process. What he doesn't down is push up or "stand tall" with the rear leg that that we're seeing "lilrjb" doing in his "move out"....
                        Last edited by mudvnine; 05-16-2019, 10:08 AM.
                        In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mudvnine View Post
                          He's for whatever reason taken the "sit" out of his move out. You're basically already saying/seeing it when you say that he previously "Stayed loaded in his legs" but that now something looks different to you, and it is...his momentum is going "upwards" instead of "towards" the ball as much as he was before.
                          That's exactly what I mean, you just said it a lot better than I did. The struggle is BP is more of the "sit" with better control but live game hitting there is a lot less "sit" than before. So what once was working for him he now got away from, not sure the reason for it, but just trying to help him understand.



                          EDIT: Yeah, I know his swing so good I can now see without video that something is off. Now I don't always know what exactly until I record it but I can see and say something is not right. Problem is the base hit results are still there, but the power and ability to drive in gaps is not.

                          The thing for me is it wasn't a case of he would do it in the cages right but not do it in live action. He used to do it in live action but now doesn't.
                          Last edited by coachrjb; 05-16-2019, 10:12 AM.
                          Instagram: gavin_thereal34

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by coachrjb View Post

                            That's exactly what I mean, you just said it a lot better than I did.
                            Like I said, and my daughter does similar things in games, is that when the pitching speeds up they don't trust themselves to be able to be on time so they shortchange their actions..they don't move out correctly, they don't coil enough, etc, etc. If you are seeing his cage work to be better than I think this is the biggest issue. Get him started slow and early and let him trust that his mechanics will allow him to be quick enough to get his barrel to the ball.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pattar View Post

                              Like I said, and my daughter does similar things in games, is that when the pitching speeds up they don't trust themselves to be able to be on time so they shortchange their actions..they don't move out correctly, they don't coil enough, etc, etc. If you are seeing his cage work to be better than I think this is the biggest issue. Get him started slow and early and let him trust that his mechanics will allow him to be quick enough to get his barrel to the ball.
                              Appreciate the feedback.
                              Instagram: gavin_thereal34

                              Comment

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