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A New First/Third Defense

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  • A New First/Third Defense

    Saw this one for first time: Straight steal, catcher intentionally throws ball relatively low on one big hop to 2nd base. At point ball hits ground 2nd baseman is there faking the catch (to hold runner at third) and ball bounces up to ss covering bag. It's an intentional play. Good? Easy to beat? Dangerous? Legitimate play?
    Major Figure

  • #2
    Sounds like an error waiting to happen

    Comment


    • #3
      Why not do the play without the long bounce (we have f6 fake the throw cutoff, but f4 could too)? What is the point of the long bounce?

      Comment


      • #4
        If you try this play it better be on a smooth field to provide a clean bounce. My son got fooled by this play on turf in16u. He pulled to go into second standing and was tagged out.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Viking0 View Post
          Why not do the play without the long bounce (we have f6 fake the throw cutoff, but f4 could too)? What is the point of the long bounce?
          Throw is low, holds the runner at 3rd more effectively?
          Never played baseball, just a dad of someone that loves to play. So take any advice I post with a grain of salt.

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          • #6
            I don't like it because it requires the catcher to make a different throw than usual.

            Catchers throw best when they make the same throw everytime.
            Skip

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            • #7
              We just threw it like a normal throw to the base, and F4 had the responsibility to "read" R3, and cut it if he took off, or let it go through to F6 at the bag for the tag if R3 never broke for the plate. It work quite well quite often.

              In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Viking0 View Post
                Why not do the play without the long bounce (we have f6 fake the throw cutoff, but f4 could too)? What is the point of the long bounce?
                I guess to fool/hold runner at 3rd.
                Major Figure

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by pthawaii View Post

                  Throw is low, holds the runner at 3rd more effectively?
                  Right, that's part of the thinking.
                  Major Figure

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by omg View Post

                    I guess to fool/hold runner at 3rd.
                    One of the first rules of baseball is, don't throw the ball around.
                    Now we're talking about a 1 and 3 play where F2 intentionally bounces the throw with a runner at third.
                    Interesting topic. But not a smart baseball play.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by skipper5 View Post

                      One of the first rules of baseball is, don't throw the ball around.
                      Now we're talking about a 1 and 3 play where F2 intentionally bounces the throw with a runner at third.
                      Interesting topic. But not a smart baseball play.
                      Yeah that's the way I see it right now off the top of my head. I think one of the young college guys brought it into this travel program(13-15) and other coaches like it. But yeah, I'm highly skeptical. It does give me the thought though that a catcher, especially at that age, making a one long hop throw, like an outfielder, might have merit.
                      Major Figure

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                      • #12
                        I would not recommend this. Too many things can go wrong and the end result could be a runner on 3rd and a run scored.
                        Granny said Sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what. Because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not.

                        I am an ex expert. I've done this long enough to know that those who think that they know it all, know nothing.

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                        • #13
                          This is close to our standard 1st and 3rd defense except we don’t bounce the throw. The second baseman runs in directly at the runner on 3rd. We are trying to throw the guy out at second, but the second baseman is free to cut and get the runner at third. I am a big believer in no crooked innings and we take every out the other team wants to give in that pursuit. We have 3 other plays for the situation but if nothing is called this is what we do. I have had teams without strong catchers and the we don’t make this the standard play.

                          After a while word gets out that you throw the runner out and you can keep the double play in order.

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                          • #14
                            This play is run a lot in our high school conference. The best way we defended this was to attempt to know how the other coach thought. I know that sounds crazy but the majority of coaches in our conference do the stop steal version of the 1st and 3rd situation. Therefore, we have our 2B sprint to an area that is about 8 - 10 feet from the 2B bag and two steps inside the lines. So our 2B is standing at the place where the runner has practiced the stop steal. We want our 2B to catch and tag. However, the 3B is in control of this play and will call orders to the 2B. For example, he might scream "4" and that ball had better be thrown to the plate. If the runner at 3B sees the defense and stops, our 3B can call out "run at him" to get the runner to commit to a direction. Then we get the out in the rundown. Hopefully, one throw.

                            Keep in mind that most coaches expect the SS or 2B to be the cut and the runner is keyed by reading the ball over the head and the cut. If not cut, they most often run. The way we defended it, there wasn't a pure cut and so the runner took often. I think we might have had one or two runs score on us but most often we got the 3B runner.
                            Granny said Sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what. Because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not.

                            I am an ex expert. I've done this long enough to know that those who think that they know it all, know nothing.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cannonball View Post
                              This play is run a lot in our high school conference. The best way we defended this was to attempt to know how the other coach thought. I know that sounds crazy but the majority of coaches in our conference do the stop steal version of the 1st and 3rd situation. Therefore, we have our 2B sprint to an area that is about 8 - 10 feet from the 2B bag and two steps inside the lines. So our 2B is standing at the place where the runner has practiced the stop steal. We want our 2B to catch and tag. However, the 3B is in control of this play and will call orders to the 2B. For example, he might scream "4" and that ball had better be thrown to the plate. If the runner at 3B sees the defense and stops, our 3B can call out "run at him" to get the runner to commit to a direction. Then we get the out in the rundown. Hopefully, one throw.

                              Keep in mind that most coaches expect the SS or 2B to be the cut and the runner is keyed by reading the ball over the head and the cut. If not cut, they most often run. The way we defended it, there wasn't a pure cut and so the runner took often. I think we might have had one or two runs score on us but most often we got the 3B runner.
                              Interesting! I will keep note of this for future use.

                              If the runner on first decides to steal, who will be covering the base or do you just give them the base?

                              When I was younger, I was the 2nd baseman. I would be covering the bag, but the throw would go directly to SS. They would charge the throw and throw it back to 4.

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