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  • #46
    Originally posted by Coach Run Prevention View Post
    What would you say to the hitting coach who warns against terms like "conflict", "counter", "oppose", "separate", "coil", etc because it does not align with the goal of balance & efficiency?
    This reads like a question out the old SAT college entry exam where the choices were even less discernible in filling the blank for the next word in the sequence that would be most appropriate. Help us out.....not sure what you are asking.

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    • #47
      Lol. Yeah I guess I could’ve written that better.

      The idea of having a hitter’s body parts in conflict with each other, like having the hips open while pulling the back/scap backward, makes sense in a “stretch the rubber band” sense. I’ve always used the stretch the rubber band analogy for that reason. But I have recently seen very qualified hitting minds say that a body in conflict will not be balanced and efficient, and therefore cannot move as athletically as it could. Just curious to get your thoughts.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Coach Run Prevention View Post
        The idea of having a hitter’s body parts in conflict with each other, like having the hips open while pulling the back/scap backward, makes sense in a “stretch the rubber band” sense. I’ve always used the stretch the rubber band analogy for that reason. But I have recently seen very qualified hitting minds say that a body in conflict will not be balanced and efficient, and therefore cannot move as athletically as it could. Just curious to get your thoughts.
        I will get to this, but before I do, just a preface and acknowledgement to Cannonball and his contributions to this site and others...


        Cannonball, I have not forgotten you....Thank you for your honesty and frankness.... This post in 2010, in my opinion indicates to me how highly observant and honest you are, how much of a valued and respected coach you were, and remain so. You have my respect.....This exactly highlights my falling out with another "guru", TM, because there were principles that could not be reconciled and square with my systems approach...I hope to give you the answer..

        … I jumped in to this thread apprehensive about the notion of swivel. I asked some questions ……I asked what Yeager… I asked about Mankin ……I’ve asked for video from FFS five times… Mud says we’re closer than we think…… I posted my thoughts from attempting the swing and concentrating on WHAT I PERCIEVED to be swivel. I readily admit that I might be wrong and so wanted to clarify ……by my constant posting of the video below which to me is conclusive that what the one person is doing is not what the MLB player is doing….. The video below, again, doesn’t whisper, it screams!
        image_81509.gif image_81510.gif

        Last edited by Al_Oha; 12-09-2020, 09:00 PM.

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        • #49
          The elite hitter swings in a downward plane, and deep in the hitting zone.....
          MannyDownSwing.gif
          Originally posted by Al_Oha View Post


          Pujols.1.gif
          All good hitters will reverse the forward momentum of the hips by countering with opposing forces in the upper torso. This does two things...
          1. Whip is created for a "running start" the moment of LAUNCH.
          2. RVP gets the bat head instantly into LAG, and deep into the hitting zone......

          Pujol's RVP (post 53) is in yellow. Note the relationship between top hand and rear shoulder when he gets to this point. Note how he EXTENDS from LAG to PUNCH from this position.

          The elite accomplishes another relationship. Pujol's again..

          ...the "hands stay back". The upper torso remains behind the red line as the rear hip drives forward. If the red line were to be a wall, the extent to which the hip rotates, defines the location of that wall, and the trajectory of the punch. It is between this wall and the rear shoulder that the elite EXTENDS and delivers that PUNCH. Every swing for the elite therefore, is a "fence dril". That is the reason for why for all balls in the hitting zone whether inside, outside, high or low, it will be always the SAME SWING pattern.

          "Fence Dril". See post #34.

          The high level hitter EXTENDS from lag at the RVP, to PUNCH DOWNWARD while supinating the TOP HAND. This allows the hitter to MATCH the PLANE of the INCOMING BALL ACROSS the PLATE.

          All other will have NO REVERSAL in forward momentum to their swings....All will therefore ROTATE their swings. This requires an UPSWING PLANE following barrel turn in the manner that Ted Williams describes TO THE FRONT OF THE PLATE.
          EliteDownSwing.jpg
          Last edited by Al_Oha; 03-08-2021, 10:41 PM.

          Comment


          • #50

            EliteDownSwing.Brett.jpg
            GBrettSloNeckSlotFence.gif
            Originally posted by Fanboi22 View Post
            Not sure George Brett is the poster boy for swing mechanics as i dont see a ton of hitters in the neck slot position in game swings, but are you stating that High Level pro hitters bring there elbow down and pin to the side on purpose during the 'connection' part of the swing and then extend thru? I was always under the impression that this position was a pass thru

            Conforto and Pujols display mechanics that you do not see in Brett's swing. You only see the neck slot, but not aware in the manner the up-and-out rear elbow gets reassigned to punch with the chest. The scapula gets retracted to stretch the chest muscles, to bring the rear arm and elbow to STROKE parallel to the hitter's side in PUNCHING across the plate. They remain "connected" rearward to RVP in opposing the forward momentum of the driving hip.

            The difference between Brett from the other is the degree the top hand supinates from "thumb-in" on the load, to "thumb-out" on the launch: In all of these hitters, the top hand would be supinating down-to, to match the plane of the incoming ball ACROSS the PLATE as well the shoulder line.


            ConfortoLikeBrett.gif Pujolsupover.gif
            Last edited by Al_Oha; 03-15-2021, 11:36 AM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Al_Oha View Post
              The elite hitter swings in a downward plane, and deep in the hitting zone.....

              The high level hitter EXTENDS from lag at the RVP, to PUNCH DOWNWARD while supinating the TOP HAND. This allows the hitter to MATCH the PLANE of the INCOMING BALL ACROSS the PLATE.

              All other will have NO REVERSAL in forward momentum to their swings....All will therefore ROTATE their swings. This requires an UPSWING PLANE following barrel turn in the manner that Ted Williams describes TO THE FRONT OF THE PLATE.
              Outstanding post Al...you've finally unlocked the door that separated the "swing down", and "turn the barrel (swivel)" crowds that until now were hunkered down in adjoining, but individually fortified polar opposite hitting rooms!

              I hope others delve into it for the depth at what you've said here, and what it truly represents.

              From your post however long ago where you noted that I had said...
              … I jumped in to this thread apprehensive about the notion of swivel. I asked some questions ……I asked what Yeager… I asked about Mankin ……I’ve asked for video from FFS five times… Mud says we’re closer than we think……
              ...that was what I was talking about. We were close in the TTB/swivel stuff, but there was the question of depth that I didn't get the feeling you were addressing at the time...or at least not articulating as well back then. That changed now with your most recent posts...well done my friend, well done.


              Last edited by mudvnine; 03-15-2021, 12:30 PM.
              In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by mudvnine View Post

                … I jumped in to this thread apprehensive about the notion of swivel. I asked some questions ……I asked what Yeager… I asked about Mankin ……I’ve asked for video from FFS five times… Mud says we’re closer than we think……

                Thanks Mud.

                It was actually Cannonball who said this in 2010. I picked it up last year but kept it in my back pocket until I posted it (#48, above) in December 2020, when my thoughts and graphics were better crystallized.

                I started this thread to provide insight against others who ask a price in selling their wares, and not necessarily understand the mechanism in high level swing. How you teach it will be the challenge. I hope this provides you with some direction as an informed skeptic. There is more to come.
                Last edited by Al_Oha; 03-16-2021, 10:59 AM.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Al_Oha View Post
                  The elite hitter swings in a downward plane, and deep in the hitting zone.....
                  MannyDownSwing.gif



                  The high level hitter EXTENDS from lag at the RVP, to PUNCH DOWNWARD while supinating the TOP HAND. This allows the hitter to MATCH the PLANE of the INCOMING BALL ACROSS the PLATE.

                  All other will have NO REVERSAL in forward momentum to their swings....All will therefore ROTATE their swings. This requires an UPSWING PLANE following barrel turn in the manner that Ted Williams describes TO THE FRONT OF THE PLATE.
                  EliteDownSwing.jpg
                  Is there a difference between (1) extending from lag/punching downward, and (2) throwing the hands/knob at the ball? Or are they one and the same?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    1) Yes 2) No

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                    • #55
                      There is a subtle difference in feel in regards to extension through lag as Aloha has described and "hands pushing" but the it can be seen via sensors such as blast/vid analysis.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by jamesd1628 View Post

                        Is there a difference between (1) extending from lag/punching downward, and (2) throwing the hands/knob at the ball? Or are they one and the same?
                        Originally posted by Al_Oha View Post
                        1) Yes 2) No
                        Al, I don't think you understood the question. I'm asking whether there is a difference between (1) and (2). Is extending from lag/punching downward different from throwing the hands/knob to the ball? If so, what is the difference?
                        Last edited by jamesd1628; 03-17-2021, 07:18 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by sparkny2 View Post
                          There is a subtle difference in feel in regards to extension through lag as Aloha has described and "hands pushing" but the it can be seen via sensors such as blast/vid analysis.
                          As for video analysis, it sounds like an area where people will see only what they're capable of seeing, as Cannonball (I think) would say. On the other hand, I would be interested in seeing some blast sensor analysis of the issue.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            It can be but in some cases vids can show a pushy swing for example displacement of the arms from body during during the sequence. blast can show the swing speed difference

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by jamesd1628 View Post

                              Al, I don't think you understood the question. I'm asking whether there is a difference between (1) and (2). Is extending from lag/punching downward different from throwing the hands/knob to the ball? If so, what is the difference?
                              Just so that I am clear what your idea of throwing the hands or knob to the ball represents, show me an example and explain what you think is happening.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Al_Oha View Post

                                Just so that I am clear what your idea of throwing the hands or knob to the ball represents, show me an example and explain what you think is happening.
                                I’m simply talking about how pro hitters explain what they do. You like to put up clips of Pujols to make your points. He talks about throwing the knob at the ball. Is that the same as your concept of extending from lag/punching down? Here’s Albert talking about throwing the knob at the ball:

                                "Take the knob of the bat to the ball." In honor of his 3,000th hit, check out a lesson in hitting from Albert Pujols.

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