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  • #16
    Of note, there were 1796 games this year. 18 of them never had a runner in scoring position.

    Also of note, the three-true-outcomes philosophy that drives this is a result of refined iterative analysis. It is valid and is the best way to win, under the current architecture of a baseball game. I bolded that because there are ways to change this--ironically, the people that are finding this unwatchable tend to be more traditionalists (I assume) and would be opposed to the changes necessary to adjust to this.

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    • #17
      I want to see action. Baseball has become as exciting as soccer.

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      • #18
        Personally, I don't think base runners are the source of all action in a baseball game. Yes, they amp up the action, but every single pitch provides action. The battle between pitcher and hitter, to me, is intensely engaging and fascinating. That may be even more true when nearly every batter is capable of going yard on any pitch. The pitchers are incredible. The hitters, equally so. That is very entertaining to me. Admittedly, it's even more entertaining when runners are on base, and when batters are not necessarily trying to hit it out on every pitch, but it's entertaining either way.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by jamesd1628 View Post
          Personally, I don't think base runners are the source of all action in a baseball game. Yes, they amp up the action, but every single pitch provides action. The battle between pitcher and hitter, to me, is intensely engaging and fascinating. That may be even more true when nearly every batter is capable of going yard on any pitch. The pitchers are incredible. The hitters, equally so. That is very entertaining to me. Admittedly, it's even more entertaining when runners are on base, and when batters are not necessarily trying to hit it out on every pitch, but it's entertaining either way.
          A parade of a new 95+ pitcher per inning rearing back trying to strike out every hitter while the hitter swings from his heels trying to hit the ball out of the park (with the result being 40% of the outs are whiffs) is not a battle between the pitcher and the hitter. Maddie and Glavine working the strike zone against a good hitter is entertaining competition.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by JettSixty View Post

            A parade of a new 95+ pitcher per inning rearing back trying to strike out every hitter while the hitter swings from his heels trying to hit the ball out of the park (with the result being 40% of the outs are whiffs) is not a battle between the pitcher and the hitter. Maddie and Glavine working the strike zone against a good hitter is entertaining competition.
            Not to mention all the foul backs those pitches induce. Half the pitches are fouled straight back. So boring.

            I don't know if it's true, but Maddux was once giving a post game interview and was asked how he pitched to Sheffield. He said he was afraid of him so he wanted to get him to fly out to deep centerfield, which he did all game.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by pattar View Post

              Ok so should I tell him the game sucks now and it isn't worth watching?? Whether you (or I for that matter) like it, this will be the game he grows up witth....or doesn't.
              Yep, for better or for worse (depending on who you talk to), baseball is a different game from what many of us once knew...and if the current game appeals to the younger crowd (or the older crowd who've come to appreciate it for whatever reasons), it'll continue to attract fans. How many compared to the past still remains to be seen.

              Like Jett and Baseball 101 mentioned, I preferred the chess game when pitchers relied on more deception and location, rather than just rearing back and throwing as hard as they can...and when hitters attempted to hit LDs where the fielders weren't, instead of just swinging out of their shoes, and trying to attain some LA that will get the ball to the seats on every swing.

              Heck, I remember when hitters had a different two strike approach to put the ball into play, vs now when regardless of count...they're swinging for the fences with all they're worth.
              In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

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              • #22
                Originally posted by pattar View Post

                Ok so should I tell him the game sucks now and it isn't worth watching?? Whether you (or I for that matter) like it, this will be the game he grows up with....or doesn't.
                The game a kid plays isn’t the game he will see on tv. My son played college ball. He won’t watch the crap on tv. He’ll go to a MLB game if one of his former teammates is in town and they go out for beers afterwards. When he and I go he never wants to stay after the 7th inning.

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                • #23
                  As a fan I would much rather watch a high level 12u game than an mlb. I have to agree with the OP about everyone just swinging for the fence on every pitch and way too many K’s. I definitely am not a fan of the shift either. I’m not saying I would rather see a 15-12 score, just would like to see more balls in play and great defensive plays. My youth baseball coach would always tell me to “throw strikes not strikeouts, strikeouts are boring”

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                  • #24
                    One of the other things that drives this is that, believe it or not, the umpire's calling of balls and strikes has been improving. They are being electronically monitored and called out on the internet for every bad call. As great as Maddux and Glavine were, I believe they would have had a much tougher time pitching in today's game. I think they would have adapted because they were champions. My son that is a high school player now has watched their classic games on the MLB network and he has commented that today's pitchers wouldn't get many of the calls that they got, especially outside.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by mudvnine View Post
                      Yep, for better or for worse (depending on who you talk to), baseball is a different game from what many of us once knew...and if the current game appeals to the younger crowd (or the older crowd who've come to appreciate it for whatever reasons), it'll continue to attract fans. How many compared to the past still remains to be seen.

                      Like Jett and Baseball 101 mentioned, I preferred the chess game when pitchers relied on more deception and location, rather than just rearing back and throwing as hard as they can...and when hitters attempted to hit LDs where the fielders weren't, instead of just swinging out of their shoes, and trying to attain some LA that will get the ball to the seats on every swing.

                      Heck, I remember when hitters had a different two strike approach to put the ball into play, vs now when regardless of count...they're swinging for the fences with all they're worth.
                      I get it. Just not sure if a "boycott" will induce the effect that some are hoping for...
                      Last edited by pattar; 10-29-2020, 07:31 AM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by JettSixty View Post

                        The game a kid plays isn’t the game he will see on tv.
                        Right, don't disagree. That said, I think some of you are forgetting why (most) young (maybe pre-HS??) kids watch games. You get them to watch for their reasons and then you, as a learned adult, can throw in some "teaching moments" every so often. The "chess game" situations are still there regardless of how most of MLB handles them at the moment.

                        Of course you as an adult are free to not watch if you don't enjoy it anymore..I choose to watch (when I can) for the aspects of the game that I grew up watching that are still there while not losing sight of what is no longer there. Of course I may not be as cerebral as you guys so...
                        Last edited by pattar; 10-29-2020, 08:15 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by pattar View Post
                          Right, don't disagree. That said, I think some of you are forgetting why (most) young (maybe pre-HS??) kids watch games. You get them to watch for their reasons and then you, as a learned adult, can throw in some "teaching moments" every so often. The "chess game" situations are still there regardless of how most of MLB handles them at the moment.
                          I think this brings up a great point. Kids love home runs. Part of the problem, I think, is that the generation that is now teaching the kids how to play also loves home runs. Every parent/coach I see teaching their kid how to hit is trying to teach how to hit the long ball. That mentality has crept into baseball through coaches and parents. The generation(s) that love to teach the long ball to their kids probably also enjoys seeing the long ball in the MLB. The game has changed, but it may be the ultimate result of what the fans - those who teach their kids how to play - want to see. Obviously, the prior generations saw and enjoyed a different game. So perhaps this is just another iteration of the "get off my lawn" mentality of previous generations.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by JettSixty View Post

                            A parade of a new 95+ pitcher per inning rearing back trying to strike out every hitter while the hitter swings from his heels trying to hit the ball out of the park (with the result being 40% of the outs are whiffs) is not a battle between the pitcher and the hitter. Maddie and Glavine working the strike zone against a good hitter is entertaining competition.
                            I can see both sides of this. I love watching a placement pitcher work the zone - it's a thing of beauty. I also love watching someone trying to hit a 100+ mph scorcher. Both are entertaining in different ways. The hit that the Rays batter (forgot which one) got off of Chapman in the ALCS was one of the best moments of the post season this year in my opinion.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by jamesd1628 View Post

                              I think this brings up a great point. Kids love home runs.
                              Not only HR. The great catches, the plays in the hole, how a MLB SS/2B turns a DP (granted there are less of them now), the MLB swings, etc., etc. In other words the things most of us would try to emulate when we were at the park with our friends. Sorry, but when I was playing with my friends I rarely tried to move a runner over from 1st with a GB to the right side...

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by pattar View Post
                                Right, don't disagree. That said, I think some of you are forgetting why (most) young (maybe pre-HS??) kids watch games. You get them to watch for their reasons and then you, as a learned adult, can throw in some "teaching moments" every so often. The "chess game" situations are still there regardless of how most of MLB handles them at the moment.

                                Of course you as an adult are free to not watch if you don't enjoy it anymore..I choose to watch (when I can) for the aspects of the game that I grew up watching that are still there while not losing sight of what is no longer there. Of course I may not be as cerebral as you guys so...
                                My son preferred playing baseball on his PlayStation. Then he would walk in to watch later in the game. It surprised me he would break down swing mechanics from PlayStation. He played MLB (whatever year it was).,

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