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Texas Canes 13U Elite Disqualified for Cheating at PG

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  • AdamInNY
    replied
    Originally posted by Giantsfan247 View Post


    Extremely balanced and thoughtful reply, thank you.

    Can anyone here ever say they saw something similar happen in a tournament that you or your son was involved in? Is this isolated or is cheating to win more widespread?
    If you're asking about having an unrostered player play on your team after their team getting knocked out....It's pretty common, especially as they get older. But as they get older that is also because of exposure. If a kid is at the PG WWBA and school are there to see him and his school gets knocked out he may go play for another team if the opportunity is there.

    Same goes for playing on age vs. grade. My kids are young for their grade (start college while still 17). When playing the large PG events like WWBA they'd usually play their grade and then play their age (lower grade). Had nothing to do with the team trying to win, was the exposure.

    Leave a comment:


  • JettSixty
    replied
    Originally posted by Giantsfan247 View Post


    Extremely balanced and thoughtful reply, thank you.

    Can anyone here ever say they saw something similar happen in a tournament that you or your son was involved in? Is this isolated or is cheating to win more widespread?
    From 9u to 12u my teams were community based. At 11u and 12u I coached a USSSA Sunday DH team geared towards teaching our potential LL all stars how to play their all star positions. During the season they were all middle of the field players. It got us to the state championship both years.

    At 13u, 14u and 16u (the kids were fifteen) I saw all kinds of cheating. There was age cheating and kids being picked up for the semifinals and championship games after their team lost. I saw dad coaches try to buy players. I saw dad coaches pay expenses for families to travel in for the weekend. Recruiting and raiding (approaching parents) teams while they were playing was a norm. The worst thing I saw was players screamed at in front of everyone and told to leave the field. There were too many Joe Torre wannabes coaching. My attitude was I had my turn playing. It’s time to teach and enjoy it. One coach demanded I stop talking/joking to his fans (parents of his players) while coaching third.

    Rather than fight it my attitude was bring it on. After dominating 13u and 14u along with three other teams we bumped up to 16u. Being pushed competitively was more important than winning. At about mid season our team became one of the better 16u teams. I never had to raid teams. I just fielded the phone calls as they came in. My team was respected for how we carried ourselves (players and coaches). Parents reached out to us. I was turning away good players.

    There’s a time to focus. But there’s nothing wrong with enjoying the game while you’re playing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Giantsfan247
    replied
    Originally posted by Baseballninjasmom View Post
    As the mother of 12U travel ball kid for some reason I find this way of putting a team together and the world they inhabit fascinating. But I also be concerned about the all traveling during the school year and how it infers with school and other interests.
    As my family gets further into this baseball journey I am not so obsessed with my son being the best or a super stud like I once dreamed about lol but have became a lot more realistic about his strengths and weaknesses as a player. I believe that working hard towards self improvement and learning how to rebound from failure are the lessons I want him to take from his baseball journey. Putting a team just to win at this stage (12U/13U) filled with super studs seems to sometimes be at odds with the main goal of players at this age trying to learn the game and have fun to prepare for school ball and beyond. But obviously I hold a much more developmental view at this time than others that make crave a more competitive environment. My son's team is playing a bit more competitively this year and for the first time he is encountering teams with bigger kids that appear to be already through puberty or are just genetically bigger that can really hit the ball and throw very hard. They make it look easy. This seems a bit unfair in a way but you can only work with what nature gives you good or bad. It is what is. Luckily there are many choices and levels to compete at.

    Extremely balanced and thoughtful reply, thank you.

    Can anyone here ever say they saw something similar happen in a tournament that you or your son was involved in? Is this isolated or is cheating to win more widespread?

    Leave a comment:


  • Baseballninjasmom
    replied
    As the mother of 12U travel ball kid for some reason I find this way of putting a team together and the world they inhabit fascinating. But I also be concerned about the all traveling during the school year and how it infers with school and other interests.
    As my family gets further into this baseball journey I am not so obsessed with my son being the best or a super stud like I once dreamed about lol but have became a lot more realistic about his strengths and weaknesses as a player. I believe that working hard towards self improvement and learning how to rebound from failure are the lessons I want him to take from his baseball journey. Putting a team just to win at this stage (12U/13U) filled with super studs seems to sometimes be at odds with the main goal of players at this age trying to learn the game and have fun to prepare for school ball and beyond. But obviously I hold a much more developmental view at this time than others that make crave a more competitive environment. My son's team is playing a bit more competitively this year and for the first time he is encountering teams with bigger kids that appear to be already through puberty or are just genetically bigger that can really hit the ball and throw very hard. They make it look easy. This seems a bit unfair in a way but you can only work with what nature gives you good or bad. It is what is. Luckily there are many choices and levels to compete at.

    Leave a comment:


  • abc123
    replied
    Originally posted by switchhitter View Post

    Well, it's 2021, nothing is surprising in travel baseball any more, even if 12 year olds flying to tournament in private jets. And it's not a joke
    its really just the same dynamic but on a bigger scale than local teams.

    teams that come out of one town/league have a more limited pool than academy type teams that are pulling from a larger area. so, its interesting to play the game but if you are recruiting talent from a larger area than the team you are playing then you aren't exactly playing the same "type" of team. same deal with a local academy team playing a regional team, or a national team playing a regional team. so, if easton or demarini wants to use their money to have 12 year olds flown across the country to play a game that looks like any other youth tournament game (but on turbo mode) its their money. but, the rest of us are free to sneer too that pumping money into these kinds of teams is inevitably going to lead to some unseemly consequences.

    Leave a comment:


  • switchhitter
    replied
    Originally posted by abc123 View Post
    man, i really went down the rabbit hole watching that podcast and then watching a youtube video of a championship game from last year

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HDZZdoxwl4

    it is kind of funny that having companies hand you hundreds of thousands of dollars to win kid baseball games and using that money to recruit the most dominant early bloomers in the country is somehow NOT cheating, but an unrostered kid pitching is something that gets you tossed.

    i'm sure it is a ton of fun doing that every summer though.
    Well, it's 2021, nothing is surprising in travel baseball any more, even if 12 year olds flying to tournament in private jets. And it's not a joke

    Leave a comment:


  • abc123
    replied
    man, i really went down the rabbit hole watching that podcast and then watching a youtube video of a championship game from last year

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HDZZdoxwl4

    it is kind of funny that having companies hand you hundreds of thousands of dollars to win kid baseball games and using that money to recruit the most dominant early bloomers in the country is somehow NOT cheating, but an unrostered kid pitching is something that gets you tossed.

    i'm sure it is a ton of fun doing that every summer though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Giantsfan247
    replied
    Originally posted by Baseballninjasmom View Post
    For those of you who are interested in the coach of this team. Here is the link to a podcast where they interview him. Hopefully it is ok to share this here.
    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000500519108

    I think the part of the interview where the coach says people call them cheaters at tournaments is telling. It was a bit awkward when the interviewer brought up the article I linked to and they suddenly had to go to a sponsorship break before the question was actually addressed.

    Good find thanks for posting that.
    Last edited by Giantsfan247; 04-07-2021, 06:22 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Baseballninjasmom
    replied
    For those of you who are interested in the coach of this team. Here is the link to a podcast where they interview him. Hopefully it is ok to share this here.
    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000500519108

    Leave a comment:


  • JettSixty
    replied
    Originally posted by Giantsfan247 View Post


    A LOT has changed since the times you are talking about This article is a bit of a read but will provide some insight into what the youth baseball scene is like these days.

    https://www.star-telegram.com/news/l...159060549.html
    I wouldn’t hate the coach for winning. I would criticize him for lacking perspective coaching preteens. His obsessiveness and that he took steroids to get ahead would be all I need to know to keep my kids far from this guy. The man has no boundaries.

    I coached against a guy like this in 13u. At the end of the season some of the parents approached about having their kids play for me the following year. I politely turned them down. My players had to live close enough to attend mid week practices to become better players. I never asked my players if they wanted to become college or pro players. I just asked for commitment to the team and 100% effort. All but one from 13u to 16u played some level of college ball. The one that didn’t chose college basketball. He could have played baseball.

    Leave a comment:


  • AdamInNY
    replied
    I don't see the issue at 13/14 with the age rule. If your kid is younger, at some point he needs to skip 13 or 14U to get on grade if they want to play college.

    Leave a comment:


  • abc123
    replied
    Originally posted by Giantsfan247 View Post


    A LOT has changed since the times you are talking about This article is a bit of a read but will provide some insight into what the youth baseball scene is like these days.

    https://www.star-telegram.com/news/l...159060549.html
    i'm pretty sure that the guy profiled in this story is affiliated or runs the organization mentioned in the OP. (texas canes)

    Leave a comment:


  • dcunited
    replied
    Thanks, I'll check it out! Even if it may disturb me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Giantsfan247
    replied
    Originally posted by dcunited View Post
    It seems to me like some kid will always get hosed in youth sports. My kid has an April birthday so yeah he'll be behind till post puberty. Even if you grouped kids by grade, the summer birthdays would always be in no mans land and inevitably they'd all play down a grade.

    Separately isn't kind of crazy to rank 13 year olds on a national scale? Even with the reach of travel ball I can't imagine is still captures a large percentage of the overall talent in the country. I have to imagine the bulk of the kids who eventually play beyond HS never even play on a travel team because they are too busy dominating 3 other sports when they're in elementary and middle school.

    Or am I wrong and the top travel programs in CA/Tx/FL etc..really are all loaded with future top HS talent?

    Lastly when did travel ball become so prevalent? When I was a kid back in the early middle ages..IE the late 80's, the only travel programs I was aware of in Los Angeles were some club soccer teams. I knew my town's little league program was pretty good, and we always heard stories about how amazing all the other kids were out in the Valley (Encino, Van Nuys) but nobody was joining year round teams. At least not that I was aware of. Then I went to HS, college, got a job, and years later I wake up and the landscape changed.

    I'm guessing the rise of club/travel was a slow boil over the years?

    A LOT has changed since the times you are talking about This article is a bit of a read but will provide some insight into what the youth baseball scene is like these days.

    https://www.star-telegram.com/news/l...159060549.html

    Leave a comment:


  • dcunited
    replied
    It seems to me like some kid will always get hosed in youth sports. My kid has an April birthday so yeah he'll be behind till post puberty. Even if you grouped kids by grade, the summer birthdays would always be in no mans land and inevitably they'd all play down a grade.

    Separately isn't kind of crazy to rank 13 year olds on a national scale? Even with the reach of travel ball I can't imagine is still captures a large percentage of the overall talent in the country. I have to imagine the bulk of the kids who eventually play beyond HS never even play on a travel team because they are too busy dominating 3 other sports when they're in elementary and middle school.

    Or am I wrong and the top travel programs in CA/Tx/FL etc..really are all loaded with future top HS talent?

    Lastly when did travel ball become so prevalent? When I was a kid back in the early middle ages..IE the late 80's, the only travel programs I was aware of in Los Angeles were some club soccer teams. I knew my town's little league program was pretty good, and we always heard stories about how amazing all the other kids were out in the Valley (Encino, Van Nuys) but nobody was joining year round teams. At least not that I was aware of. Then I went to HS, college, got a job, and years later I wake up and the landscape changed.

    I'm guessing the rise of club/travel was a slow boil over the years?

    Leave a comment:

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