body, hands, arms shoulders, rotation BARREL

[retkag]

We talk a lot about what the body is supposed to or what view is going on but I have a question about the barrel. We understand the importance of rotation and most if not all of believe there is some shoulder/arm action in the swing as well and some of beleive in connection and the box.


My question is what do think is the best way to have a player understand that the barrel must rotate along with the body. I believe in connection and connecting the hands to the body, but lately I have been telling myself how do I connect the barrel and the rotation. I am thinking that a hitter needs to feel the barrel what are your thoughts on getting a hitter to feel the barrel moving.


I think there is a difference between feeling what your hands body is doing compared to how the barrel is moving.


I look forward to your thoughts and opinions.


retkag

[jbooth]

We talk a lot about what the body is supposed to or what view is going on but I have a question about the barrel. We understand the importance of rotation and most if not all of believe there is some shoulder/arm action in the swing as well and some of beleive in connection and the box.


My question is what do think is the best way to have a player understand that the barrel must rotate along with the body. I believe in connection and connecting the hands to the body, but lately I have been telling myself how do I connect the barrel and the rotation. I am thinking that a hitter needs to feel the barrel what are your thoughts on getting a hitter to feel the barrel moving.


I think there is a difference between feeling what your hands body is doing compared to how the barrel is moving.


I look forward to your thoughts and opinions.


retkag

I teach my students to imagine that there is NO barrel. You should only concentrate on feeling the handle and making sure the handle moves after the hips and shoulders. The barrel is going to fly out from 0 mph to max speed in less than 0.2 seconds and create over 1,000 pounds of force just from proper body rotation. If you try to push, snap, throw, etc, the barrel, you will just make things worse.

When I played a lot of golf, I remember a Lee Trevino article where he said, "Swing the handle not the clubhead."

The same is true in the baseball swing. Keep the hands back at the shoulder area as long as possible, keep the 90 degree angle of forearms and bat as long as possible, and keep the hands loose so that the barrel can fly around from the hinge that is the hands. Rotate the body and keep the handle moving AROUND your body.

Most people have a difficult time comprehending that the bathead (barrel) moves from angular momentum created in the handle movement. Force from the hands and arms does not effeciently create bathead speed. The power that gets to the bathead comes from the force that rotates the body and the angle of the arc of the hand path.

Rotate hard, use the arms to keep the hands moving in a circle and make the hips turn first, then the shoulders and NEVER try apply force to the bat from the arms until the hips and shoulders have turned, and even then, you shouldn't really apply force from the hands unless you are fooled on the pitch.

[Mark H]

I agree except guard against too much separation when you tell them hips first. I suggest you link that clip of your pvc pipe apparatus demonstrating what you just described, ie "the hook". Very good demo I thought.

[hiddengem]

I agree except guard against too much separation when you tell them hips first. I suggest you link that clip of your pvc pipe apparatus demonstrating what you just described, ie "the hook". Very good demo I thought.

Yes, could you post that again? Nice work

[Sonny]

Rotate hard, use the arms to keep the hands moving in a circle and make the hips turn first, then the shoulders and NEVER try apply force to the bat from the arms until the hips and shoulders have turned, and even then, you shouldn't really apply force from the hands unless you are fooled on the pitch.

Since learning on this board that I need to teach my son the rotational swing, are there any drills that you could recommend that we could practice? I'm really interested in something that would isolate his turning of the hips and how to start the swing once the hips and shoulders have turned.

Thanks

[Mark H]

When the shoulders turn the arms and bat must come with them. It's true the hips go first and there is a kinetic chain but if you TRY to go hips first rather than think about turning everything as a unit you end up with too much separation or slop as Steve calls it. Think about rotating the hips, torso, shoulders etc as a unit. The separation will happen in my experience.

[hiddengem]

When the shoulders turn the arms and bat must come with them. It's true the hips go first and there is a kinetic chain but if you TRY to go hips first rather than think about turning everything as a unit you end up with too much separation or slop as Steve calls it. Think about rotating the hips, torso, shoulders etc as a unit. The separation will happen in my experience.

I agree 100%. I see alot of crappy softball coaches teaching this hip/shoulder turn separation. Makes for a very sloppy, bad looking swing.

[jsiggy]

When the shoulders turn the arms and bat must come with them. It's true the hips go first and there is a kinetic chain but if you TRY to go hips first rather than think about turning everything as a unit you end up with too much separation or slop as Steve calls it. Think about rotating the hips, torso, shoulders etc as a unit. The separation will happen in my experience.

My exact experience . We went down the teaching maximum separation for maximum power path (first the hips, then the torso, then the shoulders, etc). Trying to get a kid to unload in the proper sequence in .2 seconds just didn't work - it was usually not pretty. On the other hand, telling them to use the middle/torso to power the turn and just "turn as a unit" worked great... typically it starts out a bit too rigid sometimes but once it becomes "natural", the kinetic chain "segmentation" seems to come out on it's own.

[Ursa Major]

Sonny asked: Since learning on this board that I need to teach my son the rotational swing, are there any drills that you could recommend that we could practice? I'm really interested in something that would isolate his turning of the hips and how to start the swing once the hips and shoulders have turned.

The initial key is to get the kid to buy into the notion that rotating his body will do more to accelerate his swing than anything that his hands can do.

One trick is something I've derived from Mankin. Hold a bat at the handle with the top hand only, very loosely (say, in a circle with your thumb and forefinger barely touching). Let the bathead point/droop back toward the catcher. Then, holding the bat at shoulder height, thrust that hand straight toward the pitcher. Notice that the bathead barely moves toward the pitcher. Then, holding the bat the same loose way but keeping your elbow stiffly at your side to keep the hand from moving relative to the body, rotate your hips/middle/shoulders and watch the bathead whip around. (I.e., if the connection is rigid enough, the hand has to travel in a "circular hand path" to cause this effect.) Then let the kid try it. Then point out that even with this new circular motion he is free to add his usual arm/hand pop at the very end of his swing; with these rotational swing mechanics he is simply adding another force to contribute pop to his swing.

Moving to the next stage, here's a drill that I've cribbed from, I believe, Mark H:

So I'll suggest a drill that I've used for several years and still use: Set the tee up as in the clips. Have her hold her bat in her stance posiiton. Then with the thumb and index finger of her top hand, have her grab her shirt at the shoulder (back shoulder) seam. Keep the rest of the fingers around the bat as usual.

Have her stride just as she does in the clips but to a more closed position and more in the direction of the pitcher. As her foot plants, she should tilt and rotate. Let her figure out how to get her bat headed in the direction of the ball without letting go of her shirt. If she does it, she is maintaining the box. Just before contact at maximum hip/shoulder rotation, she can release her shirt and let her hands/bat just flail out to the ball.

Finally, just have the kid try to swing his usual bat using his bottom hand. The top hand can rest open and palm-up under the bottom hand to help support the bat. If the boy tries to swing the bat using his hands linearly, it will actually place a light strain on that wrist. But, if he lets the body rotate and waits until the rotation moves the bat off his shoulder, he'll feel no strain at all.

[Sonny]

Thanks Ursa Major. Since last weekend's tournament in which he didn't hit well at all, he has been asking me to work with him every day. For now, all we've done is hit about 100 balls off of the tee and I've soft tossed about a 100 to him every day. Funny thing is....he seems to never tire. I've been paying a lot of attention to see if he is 'throwing his hands' at the ball. For the most part he doesn't seem to be. I do plan on video taping him this weekend.

Another issue he seems to have is that he doesn't finish consistently with the bat up around his shoulder. Often times he'll finish around his waist, but these seem to be when he swings at a ball that is low. Are there any other drills that you might suggest so that I can help him be more consistent with this?

[fungo22]

Moving to the next stage, here's a drill that I've cribbed from, I believe, Mark H:

So I'll suggest a drill that I've used for several years and still use: Set the tee up as in the clips. Have her hold her bat in her stance posiiton. Then with the thumb and index finger of her top hand, have her grab her shirt at the shoulder (back shoulder) seam. Keep the rest of the fingers around the bat as usual.

Have her stride just as she does in the clips but to a more closed position and more in the direction of the pitcher. As her foot plants, she should tilt and rotate. Let her figure out how to get her bat headed in the direction of the ball without letting go of her shirt. If she does it, she is maintaining the box. Just before contact at maximum hip/shoulder rotation, she can release her shirt and let her hands/bat just flail out to the ball.

Dang. Nice drill, Mark.

[Mark H]

You should only concentrate on feeling the handle and making sure the handle moves after the hips and shoulders. ch.

I thought you said a lot of good things in this post but this one slipped by me. I think you mean the handle moves WITH the shoulders?

[jbooth]

I thought you said a lot of good things in this post but this one slipped by me. I think you mean the handle moves WITH the shoulders?

Yeah, I should have said, after the hips and with the shoulders.