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  • Scouting Views

    So as to not go any father off topic with regards to the Jeff Sparks thread, I am creating one based on dirtberry's last response there...

    Sorry to hear that! You mentioned that your father was a scout and I want as many truthful scout opinions as possible. I also know that scouts will only follow their Directors, crosscheckers and GM’s opinions on who should advance. Hence righties below 6’4” need not apply.
    I guess that was an apology for taking a cheap shot at our father...

    As for what you know, you continue to show that you know nothing when it comes to scouting.

    For starters, if you are so well known in the scouting community in California, you would have known about my father's passing.

    Secondly, scouts really don't care what their directors, crosscheckers, or GM's think about their opinions. It is their job to be opinionated. They give those guys their opinions on players and let them make whatever decisions they want.

    You making the assumption that any right hander has to be over 6'4" to be scouted is also laughable, and proves even moreso that you know very little when it comes to scouting.

    To paint all scouts with such a broad brush is generalizing a group of men who are the first (and possibly most important) part in the process of getting players into the major leagues.

    Please stop disgracing the profession by making references that may only apply to whoever you have dealt with before.
    Last edited by Jake Patterson; 02-09-2008, 11:24 AM.
    Check out my blog: www.notesfromthebag.blogspot.com

  • #2
    Bee ... I'm 100% behind you in the entire discussion. But when you start a negative post pulling someone's name in the title, it's to the detriment of the board. I completely understand why you did it, but it lowers you down to the other person rather than raising you above where you have been through the weeks of this discussion.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by beemax View Post
      So as to not go any father off topic with regards to the Jeff Sparks thread, I am creating one based on dirtberry's last response there...
      I guess that was an apology for taking a cheap shot at our father...
      As for what you know, you continue to show that you know nothing when it comes to scouting.
      For starters, if you are so well known in the scouting community in California, you would have known about my father's passing.
      Secondly, scouts really don't care what their directors, crosscheckers, or GM's think about their opinions. It is their job to be opinionated. They give those guys their opinions on players and let them make whatever decisions they want.
      You making the assumption that any right hander has to be over 6'4" to be scouted is also laughable, and proves even moreso that you know very little when it comes to scouting.
      To paint all scouts with such a broad brush is generalizing a group of men who are the first (and possibly most important) part in the process of getting players into the major leagues.
      Please stop disgracing the profession by making references that may only apply to whoever you have dealt with before.
      Bee and Dee,
      You need NOT defend your dad or his ranking in the scouting world. He was a class act respected by all who knew him. He left his mark on many.
      Jake
      "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
      - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

      Comment


      • #4
        Bee & Dee,

        There was no need for an apology, I only asked for his opinion?
        I only know scouts down here and I don’t even know your fathers name but I do care!
        You guys are the ones that have to research every name and statement made here for your own self interests.
        You both make false statements about something new to our game and really know nothing about, how could you? I am just bringing to the public what I have observed and physically performed my self again take it or leave it. I just want our best young arms to stop being destroyed. Making false statements about mechanics that you may not ever understand does not help anybody. The area scouting community in California could cover 30 other states and NoCal guys are seldom seen down here! Who said I was well known? Who said they were not scouted they are just not selected unless they are in the mid to high 9’s then they are held back unless they do twice as well as tall kids, this is a fact and no amount of follow-up research will change that? Right, have a cross-checker fly out to see a 5’10” righty and see how long you last with that job.
        Primum non nocere

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TG Coach View Post
          Bee ... I'm 100% behind you in the entire discussion. But when you start a negative post pulling someone's name in the title, it's to the detriment of the board. I completely understand why you did it, but it lowers you down to the other person rather than raising you above where you have been through the weeks of this discussion.
          Maybe I should have sent this to him in a pm, but I reacted strongly when he brought our father into the discussion.

          Jake, thanks for the kind words. My brother and I try and follow our example, and maybe our youth takes us away from it time to time.

          I simply started this thread to take it out of the Jeff Sparks dicussion. I used Dirtberry's name so he could find it and respond.

          I know that at times I have brought myself down to the level of some in here who choose to not act with tack or class, but I want to make sure my opinion gets shown on this topic.

          TG, I appreciate your post here and totally understand where you are coming from.

          I will try to change the name of the thread if that is possible.
          Check out my blog: www.notesfromthebag.blogspot.com

          Comment


          • #6
            You guys are the ones that have to research every name and statement made here for your own self interests.
            Our own self interests? I guess the truth is a part of our own self-intrests. Trust me, if I saw some evidence of what you or any other MM certified instructor teaches being effective, I would take notice. That's all we're trying to do here.

            You both make false statements about something new to our game and really know nothing about, how could you? I am just bringing to the public what I have observed and physically performed my self again take it or leave it.
            What false statements do you speak of? What are you bringing to the public other than vague statements that prove nothing? I will gladly take it if there is some real evidence.

            I just want our best young arms to stop being destroyed.
            Who doesn't want that?

            Making false statements about mechanics that you may not ever understand does not help anybody.
            Again, what false statements? It doesn't help any of us that are trying to see actual evidence of the MM motion being superior when you provide none.

            The area scouting community in California could cover 30 other states and NoCal guys are seldom seen down here!
            What's your point? Northern California is a huge area. So is Southern California.

            Who said they were not scouted they are just not selected unless they are in the mid to high 9’s then they are held back unless they do twice as well as tall kids, this is a fact and no amount of follow-up research will change that? Right, have a cross-checker fly out to see a 5’10” righty and see how long you last with that job.
            My father had over 20 years of scouting experience, not to mention 7 years of professional playing experience. Do you think when I disagree with a statement like the one above I am just doing it for fun?

            I'm not trying to make you look bad or disagree with everything you say, and I'm sure you are the same way. But I have seen very little in the past day from you that I agree with. I know that the experience I have, along with my brother's and that which was passed down to me from my father gives me a strong background in the game of baseball. I'm pretty sure I've been around scouts for longer than you have, and as long as you make statements that I believe to be false, I will call you out on it.
            Check out my blog: www.notesfromthebag.blogspot.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Chad,

              I’ve hashed this out with a lot of high profile MLB and College personnel.
              First of they never have a clue to what I am even talking about and when
              I’m trying to explain it they all act disinterested. I’ll give you this, you are at least
              Concerned enough to educate your self here and at M’s portal.
              Try a little test, discuss with a group of scouts, Marshalls mechanics and see what they know and tell us honestly what they say, then you will get a sense of what we are up against? I have been doing this for ten years now and when I hear baseball people talk about this subject they all act like Marshall experts, when I ask them a few questions
              about what they believe, they never have the correct info. It’s always “Yard myth”.
              Even if you like a full-blown Marshall mechanic pitcher, can you even imagine what you’re going to tell the scouting director when you call him or turn in a report?
              Can you imagine what the bureau guy will write in the comments area on his report?
              Do you think a full Marshall guy in the low 9’s would get an invite to the Area code games?
              I know things will take time.
              Primum non nocere

              Comment


              • #8
                I’ve hashed this out with a lot of high profile MLB and College personnel.
                Fiction.
                First of they never have a clue to what I am even talking about and when
                I’m trying to explain it they all act disinterested.
                This shouldnt suprise you. Talent is tough to find in the short window that is the scouting season. Why spend time watching a group of guys who struggle to play catch, field thier positon, throw strikes, and break 78mph?
                Can you imagine what the bureau guy will write in the comments area on his report?
                Yep....NP, along with the number 20.

                If MM pitchers start pitching like prospects, scouts WILL watch them.
                Last edited by Deemax; 02-09-2008, 05:52 AM.
                My own signature is not impressive, so I selected one that was...
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dirtberry View Post
                  Who said they were not scouted they are just not selected unless they are in the mid to high 9’s then they are held back unless they do twice as well as tall kids, this is a fact and no amount of follow-up research will change that? Right, have a cross-checker fly out to see a 5’10” righty and see how long you last with that job.
                  While this may be true of some scouts, it certainly isn't true of all.

                  Look at how high Lincecum went, and he's just 5'10 or 5'11.

                  Any scout who knows his history knows that many great pitchers haven't been much taller than 6'0.
                  Last edited by Chris O'Leary; 02-09-2008, 06:50 AM.
                  Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                  I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by beemax View Post
                    I will try to change the name of the thread if that is possible.
                    I believe I can change. PM me a new title.
                    "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                    - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                    Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Not everyone can be as tall as Roy Oswalt.

                      A couple of observations in this thread. Dirtberry, if, as you suggest that if scouts learn that a prospect is a MM student then they shy away, why tell them? The 90+ mph will stand on its own merits.

                      Beemax & Deemax, your father was known far and wide. He was a asset to the game and you both know that your dad's name could be brought up on either coast and/or here in the midwest and people are going to recognize who he was. You have both been blessed by being the sons of a very good man. You don't have to defend him. There are far more fans of your father than critics. Take care!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CoachB25 View Post
                        Dirtberry, if, as you suggest that if scouts learn that a prospect is a MM student then they shy away, why tell them? The 90+ mph will stand on its own merits.
                        I do think this is borderline paranoia on Marshall's part.

                        If a kid can hit 90 with good stuff, SOMEBODY will take a chance on him (unless he shows tons of attitude and other make-up issues).

                        Josh Outman had funky mechanics (maybe even funkier than MM's) but was still drafted by the Phillies. Of course, it helped that he was a lefty who could hit 90. He is now progressing well, but is throwing with more conventional mechanics.

                        I will acknowledge that scouts get nervous when they see someone that is quite different.

                        A couple of weeks ago I spent a lot of time talking about a kid who I liked but who made a friend nervous because of his extremely high arm slot (think Okajima). I didn't see anything bad when I went through his motion frame by frame, but he certainly was different.
                        Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                        I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Coach B25,

                          This is what is already happening, we would love to go at it full Marshall
                          For the scouts, Marshall is the only one with nads big enough to bring it to them!

                          I see no critics of D&B’s father.

                          Chris,

                          The fastest guy that ever lived was 5’8’, unfortunately they are held to a higher degree of difficulty. Area scouts are the first facilitators, they make no final decisions. The layers of “yard myth” that they have to wade through to get a shot is not the same as a tall kid.
                          I have a 5’10 senior righty now and have had them in the past that throws in the low 9’s. He has been to several showcases and camps, has done very well yet he has no offers to date. One College coach at a camp in Arizona said right to his face, your to short for us.

                          Do you see Marshall posting anywhere here?
                          You calling somebody paranoid with out a reason is suspect?
                          Anything I say comes from direct experience.
                          Last edited by Dirtberry; 02-09-2008, 03:26 PM.
                          Primum non nocere

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Deemax, Chris--excellent posts above.

                            Dirt--once again you provide an unnamed RHP who is low 90's but is getting shunned. Maybe if you provided a name, I could pull up the showcase's/recruiting service's report to corroborate your claim.

                            Like I said in another thread. You pitch well? I write a good report----it's that simple. MLB teams go all over the world and pay out the ass for pitching. Why would you rule out a entire class of pitchers?

                            Is there a conspiracy against submariners just because I didn't get picked up by teams 2 years ago? No, I just wasn't good enough to even make an Indy ball team.

                            Stop being angry at the establishment. It probably doesn't help to further your cause. I have an idea. Why don't you crank out some good pitchers that succeed in pro ball?

                            Wait, don't answer....they don't get a shot because they are too short or throw weird...

                            You're comment on the AZ coach reminds me of something. Remember the last date you went on that the girl just didn't work out or wasn't what you expected? Did you tell her "you're dumber than freakin' dirt" or "You're too ugly for me?" I think the coach might tried to let him down easy (although that's a tough one too). If he did discriminate against the short guy, he's just stupid.

                            I just spent the last few days at a powerhouse baseball school watching their team. I could pull a you and not name the school, but I'll give you a hint (It starts with a name of a state that starts with a G, ends with an A, and has a "Tech" nical name).

                            The best fastball I have seen so far velocity-wise has been 92. You mean to tell me that Arizona won't take a guy that throws 92 because he's too short? Or maybe he does throw 92 and he's all over the place. Or, here's my guess. He neither throws 92 nor has good control.

                            Either way, it sounds far-fetched. It could happen I guess, but my guess is that the coach talked to him in coded language. He meant to say "You're not good enough to pitch for us."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ChadBrad,

                              He will make his own way, that’s the way it should be.
                              He’s nothing new; I have been witnessing this behavior for 35 years.
                              Everybody is trying to keep him in Centerfield.
                              I’ll tell you what he did in a SD area showcase lately he threw a seven inning 12K 1 hitter; normally these kids only get 2 innings but the coach who was pitching strapped asked him if he could do it, no problem he told the coach I throw inside of vertical and pronate all my pitches and I will pitch for you tomorrow also if needed, and yes he closed the last 4 innings in the Sunday game.
                              Being able to play very well with both his positions is not the problem. I’m not worried about him he’ll find his College somewhere!

                              You have not said one thing that tells us anything? You seem to be ducking.
                              How do you feel about short statured righty pitchers not what you are told?
                              Take two exact individuals in command, high velocity and stats.
                              One is 6’4”-220 and the other is 5’9”-190 who and why would you pick one over the other? You sound like a straight shooter when you wannabe.
                              Primum non nocere

                              Comment

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