Cardinals finally figure it out!

[APPpitch]

Sports > Cardinals > Story
New pitching camp is a pilot program
By Derrick Goold
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
02/13/2008

Chris Perez
(Jess Heugel/The News-Leader )

JUPITER, FLA. — The Cardinals invited the elite from their next generation of pitchers to come to spring training early and brush up on the classics.

Six of the Cardinals' best pitching prospects, including rising reliever Chris Perez and first-round pick Adam Ottavino, came to Roger Dean Stadium this past weekend for a minicamp with the club's minor-league pitching coaches. Billed as a chance to prep the youngsters for their first major-league spring training, the six-day camp is also a pilot program for a larger initiative.

The pitchers are getting extensive video work, going through a new long-toss program, and learning the principles of what the Cardinals call "classic mechanics," what they believe are the shared traits from the deliveries of great pitchers.

"We're not trying to reinvent the wheel here," said Brent Strom, the Cardinals' new minor-league roving pitching instructor. "Before coaches came along, Bob Feller, Sandy Koufax, all the greats, did what they did because they had to. The body found a way to do what it needed — to throw hard, with velocity, and get hitters out.

"It's a very natural approach to finding the best mechanics."

All six of the minor league pitchers in the minicamp are non-roster invitees to major-league spring training, which begins Friday for the Cardinals. Pitching coach Dave Duncan has been watching the minicamp. He's intrigued by three of the prospects: hard-throwing closer Perez, reliable starting pitcher Mitchell Boggs and lefty Jaime Garcia, a 21-year-old who might be the organization's top starting prospect.

The other three minicamp participants are P.J. Walters, the reigning organization pitcher of the year; Ottavino; and Clayton Mortensen, a 2007 draft pick out of Gonzaga who appears primed for a rapid rise.

The six pitchers each will throw their third bullpen session of the camp today. Each time the pitchers throw, they are videotaped by pitching coach Tim Leveque. Earlier in camp, the players compared video from before they were drafted, video from last season and video from Saturday's bullpen sessions.

Perez said that in watching tape of his college innings he realized he has shortened his stride to the plate. Ottavino called the minicamp "liberating" because he believes the video and the instruction have helped him rediscover his earlier delivery.

"Natural mechanics," said Dyar Miller, the Cardinals' minor-league pitcher coordinator. "We're looking at what's natural for them and working from there."

For several years, farm director Jeff Luhnow has directed a study that analyzed video of pitching mechanics to find shared traits from effective and healthy deliveries. Illustrator Michael Witte has assisted the Cardinals, drawing on the research he did as a fan — watching old games and identifying key elements of the best deliveries.

The Cardinals have used these studies to assist them in the draft. How Ottavino's mechanics lined up with this information, for example, was part of why they selected him 30th overall in 2006.

On the first day of minicamp, the prospects watched a video of former major-league pitchers and their "classic mechanics." Witte, who is attending the minicamp and working with Strom and Leveque, helped pick the subjects, which included Koufax, Bob Gibson, Jim Palmer and Satchel Paige.

Leveque said the pitchers are urged to use their athleticism. In an attempt to "mass produce pitching mechanics," he said, it has been forgotten that "pitchers are athletes; pitchers are not caged animals."

Strom, who has been pitching coach for Houston and Kansas City, said that realization changed his view on pitching. He remains an advocate of long toss — having the six pitchers throw at distances. That has caught the attention of a few major-league pitchers regarding how far and how early in spring the kids are throwing. Strom has also embraced some new approaches since he last was a pitching coach.

"Sure, there are some things I wish I hadn't coached before; there are things I'd like to take back," Strom said. "The biggest thing I was guilty of was reducing the pitcher's delivery into its lowest common denominator. Looking for the perfect movements. They don't exist."

But there are truisms, he said.

Strom, a former major-league pitcher, has stressed the importance of tempo and rhythm to the pitchers in the minicamp. He also has worked with them on momentum.

Leveque has a database of video that includes at least a thousand pitchers, including all major leaguers, many past major leaguers, and all of the Cardinals' draft picks from the past three years. This helps the coaches to chronicle improvement and find a model for the individual pitcher. It is the Cardinals goal, Luhnow said, to tape every pitcher in the minors and give them the same tutelage.

In a couple weeks, another 10 pitchers — top prospects on their way to minor league spring training — will go through a similar mini-camp.

"This is a start, and we'd like to expand it even more," Luhnow said. Strom "has a very refreshing perspective and new ideas we're adding to the knowledge we have. We want the pitchers to see what got them here ... and then see what it's going to take to get to their potential."

[email protected] | 314-340-8285
***

Nice to see the light bulbs of common sense back on. Welcome to the next generation of pitching. Move over robots, your time is up. MLB instructors: Pay close attention and get onboard.

Want to be a positive force? Start showing LL kids the essence of the classics so that by HS or college they are draft-able.

-scott

[Go Cardinals]

GO CARDINALS!!!!!


Finally a step in the right direction!

[Nick O.]

If many of you dont know this brent strom is a disciple of Paul Nyman and his philosophies which he has and is attempting to implement into the culture major league baseball. It seems so far he is having succes in the journey of teaching young players how to throw the crap out of the ball with tempo, arm action, and numerous other adjustments... Great article, Thanks for the find

[APPpitch]

If many of you dont know this brent strom is a disciple of Paul Nyman and his philosophies which he has and is attempting to implement into the culture major league baseball. It seems so far he is having succes in the journey of teaching young players how to throw the crap out of the ball with tempo, arm action, and numerous other adjustments... Great article, Thanks for the find

The "caged animal" and the old ways Brent Strom regrets are exactly why he has changed. He finally figured out that weighted balls, weighted vests and over analyzing was not the way. Mr Nyman's approach hit the proverbial brick wall.

Reread the article, and what he is saying about the old ways.

Strom, who has been pitching coach for Houston and Kansas City, said that realization changed his view on pitching. He remains an advocate of long toss — having the six pitchers throw at distances. That has caught the attention of a few major-league pitchers regarding how far and how early in spring the kids are throwing. Strom has also embraced some new approaches since he last was a pitching coach.

"Sure, there are some things I wish I hadn't coached before; there are things I'd like to take back," Strom said. "The biggest thing I was guilty of was reducing the pitcher's delivery into its lowest common denominator. Looking for the perfect movements. They don't exist."

2 years ago, Brent Strom bought the book The Science and Art of pitching. Much of what Brent has discovered is what many of us have been enjoying these past 2 years already.

There is more going on behind the scenes than anyone thinks. And it's all good. Everyone is happy to see this advancement toward the past.

Just takes some people longer is all.

Glad you enjoyed the article. It's refreshing. Like the smoke is clearing.

Cheers.

-scott

[Dirtberry]

Did I miss something? What did they figure out?

What they are doing “Going backwards” is the same old tired way EVERYBODY who has no clue what they are doing does research. Anecdotal research is what everybody has been doing for 100 years and they are still blowing up the best arms that money can buy.
The Poor Cardinal pitching researchers going around and around worrying about how to avoid another injurious year and having to come up with something to say or use to get rid of that scourge, the traditional pitching motion injury lists. If you do not know how to go forward because everything you have tried blows up arm and shoulders you might as well go backwards!

When this New (?) technique also fails they will still avoid the inevitable.

[Chadbradfordwannabe]

Did I miss something? What did they figure out?

What they are doing “Going backwards” is the same old tired way EVERYBODY who has no clue what they are doing does research. Anecdotal research is what everybody has been doing for 100 years and they are still blowing up the best arms that money can buy.
The Poor Cardinal pitching researchers going around and around worrying about how to avoid another injurious year and having to come up with something to say or use to get rid of that scourge, the traditional pitching motion injury lists. If you do not know how to go forward because everything you have tried blows up arm and shoulders you might as well go backwards!

When this New (?) technique also fails they will still avoid the inevitable.

Seriously dude, why?

You should be happy about this, even if you disagree with the philosophy. As a Nyman disciple myself, I couldn't be happier.

Think about it....Baseball has accepted someone who is was considered "outside the box." Maybe they will accept MM ideas at some point.

Spewing out the same horsecrap every time regarding "injurious conventional mechanics" makes you look angry. This is a win for the community. Pipe down and enjoy it.

On a side note, I am extremely happy for Paul Nyman. I spoke to him after I got my job and you could hear the satisfaction in his voice. It was a great feeling knowing that he's getting "his guys" out there.

[fastbal95]

Carlos,

Why has Nyman flip flopped and weighted ball training over the years? You are a "Nyman" guy and I can respect your decision to agree with his ideas. Personally, I think he doesnt know jack about pitching, but thats just my opinion.

As for Baseball, who is it that they have accepted that thinks "outside the box"? Im just wondering who exactly you were talking about.

After reading the article, it seems very vague as to what the Cardinals are trying to do. It seems as if they are really just doing the same thing everyone else has done, but I would like to think that I have some intimate knowledge of what the Cardinals are trying to do. I believe that they really might be trying some "new" stuff and they just dont want to say what it is. For everyone's sake, I really hope this is the case.

Im not sure if Mr. Strom is going to be able to teach this "new" stuff the right way, but I really hope he does. It would be great for baseball if he is able to do it.

[Deemax]

Nice to see the light bulbs of common sense back on. Welcome to the next generation of pitching. Move over robots, your time is up. MLB instructors: Pay close attention and get onboard.

Want to be a positive force? Start showing LL kids the essence of the classics so that by HS or college they are draft-able.

"pitchers are athletes; pitchers are not caged animals."

I hope this thought process catches on.... No one should clone the delivery. If your sons instructor teaches everyone the same mechanics, fire hire and go elsewhere.

[Chadbradfordwannabe]

Carlos,

Why has Nyman flip flopped and weighted ball training over the years? You are a "Nyman" guy and I can respect your decision to agree with his ideas. Personally, I think he doesnt know jack about pitching, but thats just my opinion.

As for Baseball, who is it that they have accepted that thinks "outside the box"? Im just wondering who exactly you were talking about.

After reading the article, it seems very vague as to what the Cardinals are trying to do. It seems as if they are really just doing the same thing everyone else has done, but I would like to think that I have some intimate knowledge of what the Cardinals are trying to do. I believe that they really might be trying some "new" stuff and they just dont want to say what it is. For everyone's sake, I really hope this is the case.

Im not sure if Mr. Strom is going to be able to teach this "new" stuff the right way, but I really hope he does. It would be great for baseball if he is able to do it.

Strom's ideas aren't exactly mainstream. For that, I commend the Cards' for taking a shot.

Say what you want about Nyman, but I have been teaching Nyman-style mechanics to many of my students.

Nyman's ideas took one of my students from topping out at 84, to now topping out at 98. I can no longer catch him because he throws so hard. He's got a ridiculous changeup, too. Unfortunately, no one wants to take a shot at him because he's only 5'10".*

Another student of mine, only 16 years old. Worked with me for about 6 months...the works. His solution was actually really simple. Went from 70-71 to 89-91 in 6 months. He's a lefty, too. In a showcase event recently, the manager was about to take him out after his 3 inning stint (he did OK, K'd 8 but walked 2), but all the scouts in attendance wanted to see more of this kid as they couldn't figure out where this kid came from. It was a funny sight watching about 7 or 8 scouts go up to fence and yell to the manager to give him a few more innings. The parents of the other kids that were gonna pitch were pissed, but hey, gotta do what the scouts say, right?

Since the game was tied at 0 through the 6 regulation innings, he went 8 innings (to the scouts' delight), struck out 19, gave up 1 questionable hit (I thought it was an error). Know how the game ended? Walkoff oppo bomb by, you guessed it, that same pitcher (I also taught how to hit the Nyman way).*

I don't want to bore you with any more, but Nyman's ideas work.

*Facts may not be entirely accurate and imaginary. This is my ode to Dirtberry's claims.*

[fastbal95]

Carlos,

Again, why has Nyman flip-flopped on what he teaches concerning weighted balls and overload training? If you dont know what Im talking about I'd be glad to show you what I mean.

You didnt answer this before.

Thanks

Also, I dont know the exact specifics, so maybe you could fill me in better, but I was told that Strom was fired by the Nationals after bringing in Nyman to their spring training. Again, I dont know all the details, this is just what I have heard, you would prolly be able to specify better since you are a Nyman "guy". If there is any confusion with this, would you clear it up?

Thanks

[Dirtberry]

Wannabe,

Who is Nyman? And why are you touting him? Did the Cardinals hire him?
So, when one of their million dollar bonus babies BLOWS up the Cards can just send the bill to Nyman? Does he teach “traditional mechanics?

[Mark H]

He tries to understand what the best pitchers in the world do would probably be a fair assessment if that's what you are asking.

[APPpitch]

I see the point is being missed.

It would be Nyman that Strom is no longer following blindly.

-scott

[Dirtberry]

So he “Tries to understand” by looking at video tape of past pitchers to come up with mechanics that actually work? How repetitive! That’s the research technique everybody else uses like ASMI and NPA What’s new? This technique has failed in the past, don’t expect anything to suddenly change.
Is he trying to learn how to injure pitchers? This is what he will learn by continually going backwards in his thinking. You cannot learn non-injurious mechanics by studying injurious mechanics and then repeating them. I wonder how much the Cards are paying him to destroy their latest group of hopefuls?

[Go Cardinals]

So he “Tries to understand” by looking at video tape of past pitchers to come up with mechanics that actually work? How repetitive! That’s the research technique everybody else uses like ASMI and NPA What’s new? This technique has failed in the past, don’t expect anything to suddenly change.
Is he trying to learn how to injure pitchers? This is what he will learn by continually going backwards in his thinking. You cannot learn non-injurious mechanics by studying injurious mechanics and then repeating them. I wonder how much the Cards are paying him to destroy their latest group of hopefuls?

Stop turning everything into MM. They are not going to use it. Get over it! There are other ways to pitch than just MM.