Mike Schmidet - Bat Angle / Level Swing.

[FiveFrameSwing]

I would be curious what others think of this (from the book "The Mike Schmidt Study").

Bat Angle

Any bat held vertically in the stance (straight up and down) will initiate a long loop in its path to the ball, using valuable time. Worse, gravity acts to pull the head of the vertical bat down below the hands during the swing, which nullifies top hand action and hinders hip rotation. The swing becomes warped into an uppercut.

A bat which is held more horizontally in the stance, at a forty-five degree angle or flatter, will have greater efficiency to the strike zone. Less time will be required getting it to the point of contact. More, the effect of gravity is minimized so top hand action and hip rotation are complete. Also, the path of the bat is traight and level.

A few great hitters started with a vertical (straight up) bat angle, and if it feels right for you, try it. Just remember that a level swing cannot come out of a vertical bat angle. The flatter the bat angle, the shorter and quicker the stroke.

[cosmo34]

I would tend to agree with that.

Thinking about my swing, I hold the bat vertical, but it plays well into how my swing personally functions, and I've made it work for me.

For a general rule on other people's swings though, I think Schmidt hit the nail on the head.

Edit- I've fooled around with the bat angle described above, and it really does help get quicker into the zone, the bat head seems to stay in it longer, and has a better chance of maintaining a "flat" angle. For me personally, it didn't seem right, though I will admit I didn't mess with it for too long. I would say I'm more of the exception than the rule, and Schmidt is right

[Deemax]

More of a Tip n' Rip to me....

[Deemax]

Worse, gravity acts to pull the head of the vertical bat down below the hands during the swing, which nullifies top hand action and hinders hip rotation.

This makes no sense to me, and is not what happens in Schmidts swing. The bat is below the hands before and at contact on pitches below the chest. Maybe this is a cue he used, but it is not what he did... there is an arc, and its not a bad thing.

[jbooth]

Any bat held vertically in the stance (straight up and down) will initiate a long loop in its path to the ball, using valuable time.

The bathead ALWAYS loops. He's confusing the bathead with the hands.

Worse, gravity acts to pull the head of the vertical bat down below the hands during the swing, which nullifies top hand action and hinders hip rotation. The swing becomes warped into an uppercut.

Complete nonsense. You want gravity to help you, but you don't want the bathead to flop down below the hands too soon, so yes, the top hand holds it up initially. I don't know what any of that has to do with hip rotation. A bad uppercut comes from dropping the hands and then going up at the ball with the hands. It has nothing to do with the bathead.

A bat which is held more horizontally in the stance, at a forty-five degree angle or flatter, will have greater efficiency to the strike zone. Less time will be required getting it to the point of contact.

It gets the bat onto the swing plane quicker, but that happens in the prelaunch sequence. All hitters who start vertical move it to the approximate 45 degree angle before they launch.

A few great hitters started with a vertical (straight up) bat angle, and if it feels right for you, try it.

Yeah, like Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Frank Robinson, Billy Williams, Gary Sheffield, and MANY more, not just a FEW.

Just remember that a level swing cannot come out of a vertical bat angle.

I think Ted Williams would disagree.

The flatter the bat angle, the shorter and quicker the stroke.

It has less load time. The stroke itself is no different.

[jbooth]

I would be curious what others think of this (from the book "The Mike Schmidt Study").

Bat Angle

Any bat held vertically in the stance (straight up and down) will initiate a long loop in its path to the ball, using valuable time. Worse, gravity acts to pull the head of the vertical bat down below the hands during the swing, which nullifies top hand action and hinders hip rotation. The swing becomes warped into an uppercut.

A bat which is held more horizontally in the stance, at a forty-five degree angle or flatter, will have greater efficiency to the strike zone. Less time will be required getting it to the point of contact. More, the effect of gravity is minimized so top hand action and hip rotation are complete. Also, the path of the bat is traight and level.

A few great hitters started with a vertical (straight up) bat angle, and if it feels right for you, try it. Just remember that a level swing cannot come out of a vertical bat angle. The flatter the bat angle, the shorter and quicker the stroke.

Watch how Barry's bat moves near the 45 degree angle Schmidt talks about, BEFORE the knob moves toward the ball.

Also, note that it does this by the hands moving out toward the plate, and the bathead falling in the opposite direction. The pivot point is above the hands. He doesn't force the bathead down by applying torque between the hands, he moves the hands out, and then toward the ball, and then they go around in front of his body.



The dropping of the back elbow, down and in, and the lift up and out of the front elbow, moves the hands/knob out, which drops the bathead. As he drops the elbow he pulls the knob toward the ball and the bathead whips in an arc, toward the catcher, down at the ground, and up into the ball. The bathead tries to follow the knob, moves in an arc equal to the knob.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Jim, I greatly appreciate your input and replies.

Two of the kids I'm working with have a somewhat loopy swing that I'd like to make less loopy.

Both of these kids are bottom-hand dominant swingers.

One was a naturally right hander that converted over to LH hitting. The kid has very little top-hand power. Mike Schmidt describes this person perfectly in the paragraph below.

"The natural right-hander who moves over to the left side now has his dominant arm on the front side of the body, which also becomes the bottom hand on the bat --- anatomical and physical law disadvantages. As a result, he pulls the bat through with the front arm and the front side, loses the top hand force, and severly compromises his power. These are not necessarily precursors to failure, however. The slower swing which results is used effectively by a fair portion of right hand-dominant left-handed hitters, although usually they have been at it since age six or so."


The second kid is someone that has followed Charley Lau Jr.'s teachings. They emphasize their weight shift, have more of a dominance with their bottom hand, have an early release with their top hand, and a high finish with their bottom hand.

Both of these kids have somewhat loopy swings.

Mike Schmidt seems to suggest that more emphasis on the top hand would help level out the swing.

Mike quotes Riche Zisk ... "I think the swing is comprised of two parts. The bottom arm acts as kind of a guide to put the bat in position to use the top hand. Once this happens, the bat is thrown or pushed into the ball by the top hand".

Mike also quotes Frank Robinson ... "The top hand finishes off what the bottom hand starts."

In your opinion, do you believe that an over concentration of the bottom arm leads to a loopy swing? Do you feel that more use of the top arm would help level out the hand path?

I know Yeager's "split grip" drills are designed to place an emphasis on top hand throwing past the bottom hand. In your opinion, would such drills by useful for correcting a loopy swing?

[jbooth]

Mike quotes Riche Zisk ... "I think the swing is comprised of two parts. The bottom arm acts as kind of a guide to put the bat in position to use the top hand. Once this happens, the bat is thrown or pushed into the ball by the top hand".

Mike also quotes Frank Robinson ... "The top hand finishes off what the bottom hand starts."

I agree with both of the above

In your opinion, do you believe that an over concentration of the bottom arm leads to a loopy swing? Do you feel that more use of the top arm would help level out the hand path?

I don't think a looping swing has anything to do with either hands' use individually. A loop is caused by dropping the knob pretty much straight down (vertically) before moving it at the ball, or by pushing it back and down toward the hip before going at the ball. The old saying, "swing down" or, "take the knob to the ball" is the cue to stop looping. Both cues mean to start the hands moving directly toward the height of the ball, from the shoulder. Of course, you don't continue down, they start down and move in an arc or "level out."

Just like these;




Look at Manny's hand path. Directly toward the ball from the shoulder, and then up. Just like Griffey's.

[korp]

Definitely holding the bat vertically makes the path longer. I prefer a 45 degree angel but I don't necessarily think it should be completely horizontal either ... but I would think you'd be better off horizontal than vertical.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Thank you again Jim!

[ssarge]

The natural right-hander who moves over to the left side now has his dominant arm on the front side of the body, which also becomes the bottom hand on the bat --- anatomical and physical law disadvantages.

So disadvantageous that the HOF is disproportionately full of RH throwers, LH hitters. HUGE advantage, IMO.

Regards,

Scott