Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Best Pitching Coach Ever?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Best Pitching Coach Ever?

    Sir Isaac Newton teaches us how to properly apply force to a baseball. His three laws of motion are our guide.

    First of lets define a law in relative to science. The definition of a scientific law is such:

    Scientific Law: This is a statement of fact meant to explain, in concise terms, an action or set of actions. It is generally accepted to be true and univseral, and can sometimes be expressed in terms of a single mathematical equation. Scientific laws are similar to mathematical postulates. They don’t really need any complex external proofs; they are accepted at face value based upon the fact that they have always been observed to be true.

    Specifically, scientific laws must be simple, true, universal, and absolute. They represent the cornerstone of scientific discovery, because if a law ever did not apply, then all science based upon that law would collapse.


    So what this says is that scientific laws are taken to be absolute and true.


    Newton's first law and how it applies to pitching a baseball:

    Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

    Baseballs will stay at rest unless acted upon by an external force. They will also move in a straight line unless an external force is applied to it. Baseball pitchers need to apply they force in a straight line with respect towards home plate. Only the force applied in the X coordinate direction counts with respect to release velocity.

    Newton's second law and how it applies to pitching a baseball:

    The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.

    F=ma, or F(the force applied to the baseball in the X coordinate direction)=m(mass of the baseball)a(acceleration)

    a(acceleration) is the change in velocity over a certain time period. So basically a(acceleration)=v(velocity)t(time)

    Changing F=ma around we get a=F/m, since a=v/t we can substitute so v/t=F/m. We can also change this formula around to get this:

    v(velocity)=F(force)t(time)/m(mass of the baseball). Since m(mass) is a constant, we find that v(velocity)=F(force)t(time).

    That means that release velocity equals the force a pitcher applies to the baseball times the time period over which pitchers apply that force.

    Traditional pitchers do NOT start to apply force to the baseball in the X coordinate direction with respect to home plate till AFTER their glove foot lands. Why is this? Because when their glove foot lands the baseball is either moving backwards, OR not moving at all, stopped still.

    Using Mike Marshall mechanics, pitchers start to apply force to the baseball in the X coordinate with respect to home plate when their arm gets up to driveline height. They continue to apply force until release. Their driveline is longer than traditional pitchers. This means that they apply force to the baseball for a longer time period than traditional pitchers.

    Newton's third law and how it applies to pitching a baseball:

    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

    This means that the force a pitchers applies towards home plate is only as great as the force that they apply towards second base. Hence, the more force that a pitcher applies towards second base, the more force they can apply towards home plate, the more force, the more velocity, remember v=Ft.

    Three ways you can apply force towards second base:

    1. The pitching foot can apply force towards second base if pitchers "push" off of the rubber.
    2. The glove arm can apply force towards second base if pitchers pull their glove arm straight back.
    3. The glove foot can apply force towards second base if pitchers rotate on their glove foot and push back towards second base with it.

    Traditional pitchers can apply force using their pitching foot. They could apply apply force with their glove arm, but most if not all DO NOT pull their glove arm straight back. Also, most if not all, "traditional" pitching coaches do NOT teach pitchers to pull their arm straight back towards home plate. Traditional pitchers definately do NOT rotate on their glove foot, so they CANNOT apply force towards home plate with their glove foot. Most of the time, if not all of the time, "traditional" pitchers apply force with their glove foot towards home plate, NOT second base.

    Pitchers using Mike Marshall's mechanics are taught to apply as much force towards second base as possible, using the pitching foot, glove arm, and glove foot. Hence, pitchers using Mike Marshall's mechanics are taught to apply more force towards second base than "traditional" pitchers. More force towards second base means more force in the direction of home plate. Remember Newton's third Law.

    So, if pitchers using Mike Marshall's mechanics are able to apply force over a greater distance, or time period, and also are able to apply more force, then consequently, pitchers using Mike Marshall's mechanics are able to throw with greater velocities than they would if they used the "traditional" motion.

    That people say it hasnt been "proven" on the field is irrelevent. Scientific laws are taken to be absolute and true. Therefore, prove on paper is all that is needed. If this is not true, then all science based upon these laws, would collapse, such as the idea of gravity. And we all know gravity to be very very real and true.

  • #2
    But can the muscles produce the same amount of power through that different range of motion you are creating using MM mechanics?

    The reason MM pitchers will not reach high mph is the muscle contractions are not enough. They sit into there separation and can not get the Core to explode into landing.

    Weak Contractions = weak results

    Traditional pitchers are far more explosive with hips and shoulders

    Comment


    • #3
      Scientific laws are similar to mathematical postulates. They don’t really need any complex external proofs; they are accepted at face value based upon the fact that they have always been observed to be true.
      This is true when referencing scientific laws, of course. Just because Doc says that his delivery uses these laws better than "traditional" pitchers doesn't make it true, however.

      We who believe in the "traditional delivery" (as you guys say it is) need more than to accept the Marshall delivery at "face value."

      IMO that is a way to circumvent any opposition to the delivery by Doc; if anyone questions it, refer to Newton's laws, our interpretation of how we feel we use them better than "traditional pitchers," and that all of this only needs to be accepted at "face value."
      Check out my blog: www.notesfromthebag.blogspot.com

      Comment


      • #4
        RIstar,

        Tell me what specific muscles you use, and I'll tell you what specific muscles we use, why we use them, and why certain muscles we use are better to use than the certain muscles you use.

        Thanks

        Brett,

        I would ask you to find someone who is knowledgable in physics then. Maybe someone who has advanced degrees in physics. To me it seems pretty simple to understand. I can understand that people who dont know as much about physics might not be able to comprehend as well, I dont mean you, just so you know. Ask them what they think about what I wrote and what Doc says in reference to his motion vs the "traditional" motion.

        Comment


        • #5
          So, if pitchers using Mike Marshall's mechanics are able to apply force over a greater distance, or time period, and also are able to apply more force, then consequently, pitchers using Mike Marshall's mechanics are able to throw with greater velocities than they would if they used the "traditional" motion.
          Yet there is zero proof of this. You yourself have said that velocity is not the most important thing for a pitcher to have, yet you guys continue to hang your hat on velo, especially on something that isn't proven. If Newton had come out with some laws that apply to locating your pitches and/or throwing strikes consistently, I would pay more attention.

          That people say it hasnt been "proven" on the field is irrelevent. Scientific laws are taken to be absolute and true. Therefore, prove on paper is all that is needed. If this is not true, then all science based upon these laws, would collapse, such as the idea of gravity. And we all know gravity to be very very real and true.
          Irrelevant? WOW! Are you serious? Proof on paper is all that is needed? Cmon Joe. Is that a joke?

          The Patriots were 18-0 on paper going into the Super Bowl. The Giants were 13-6 on paper. On paper, the Giants should have had no shot, right? Yet they won.

          Proof on paper is the weakest "claim" yet I have heard Joe.

          I understand Doc's interpretation of Newton's Laws as it pertains to his pitching motion. That doesn't mean I am going to buy into it without proof. That no proof is needed other than "we use the laws better than traditional pitchers" is ridiculous.

          It is very safe to say that all the proof you need is on paper. IMO another built in excuse. Keep telling yourself that if you never ever want to get out of Zephyrhills.

          I have still yet to see Doc talk about location at length in all of this. Location, IMO is the number one, most important thing a pitcher should do. IMO he doesn't talk about it because he knows that his motion leads to poor location and less strikes. Just my opinion.
          Check out my blog: www.notesfromthebag.blogspot.com

          Comment


          • #6
            I use every muscle from toe to finger tip to throw the ball.

            Main muscles that produce big contractions are Core and shoulders

            I'm sorry to tell you but the triceps and forearms are along for the ride and I throw with my lower half then upper body. MM pitchers throw more with there arm and less body.

            Comment


            • #7
              RIstar,

              Unfortunately you have no clue as it pertains to MM, Im sorry.

              Also, "every muscle from toe to finger tip to throw the ball" is not specific. Neither is core or shoulders. There is no such muscle called the "core" or "shoulders". I asked to to be specific. The tricep brachii is a muscle, you got that one right, but there is no such thing as "forearm" muscles. Again, please be specific.

              And you have no clue, the triceps brachii and "forearm" muscles are NOT along for the ride. If you know how to use your body correctly, or more efficiently, then you would understand the the tricep is an accelerator, it extends the elbow joint. There are numerous muscles in the "forearm". Some are accelerators, while some decelerate (Flexors and extensors).

              Before you start talking again, I think you might need to crack open an anatomy book bud.

              Comment


              • #8
                I bet you throw slower then me lol

                I'm not going to comment any more for your lack of knowledge how to throw a ball with power.

                You are useless to this site, just leave

                I don't care what muscles I will throw harder then most MM pitchers so that is my proof.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Brett,

                  I dont hang my hat on velocity, others hear do, and bring it up constantly. I only refute with science what they say. I do not believe velocity is most important. You know that, we have had multiply conversations on this.


                  That the Patriots were 18-0, was that a scientifc LAW? I think not. Apples and oranges Brett.

                  I guess you dont understand the idea of a scientific law.

                  Brett, I'll be "out of Z-hills" soon enough. Remember, I did in fact play pro ball before I came here, and had great success when I did pitch.

                  You have yet to see Doc talk, because he doesnt talk on this site, I do. If you want to know his ideas about location, why dont you ask him? I explained it to you last night, but maybe you should ask him. He is the one with a Cy Young award, and multiply other awards and records.

                  Again, it is your opinion that location is #1. Remember that.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    RIstar,

                    You have no clue bud and you show it everytime you post something.

                    Just because I have played pro ball doesnt necessarily mean I know anything, BUT what have you done kid? Have you pitched college ball, have you gotten drafted? Think not.

                    You wouldnt know a trouser cuff from a rotator cuff.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      how hard you throw with MM mechanics?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ristar, one important thing that MM has is that instead of using smaller weaker muscles like the teres minor and other parts of the rotator cuff... MM mechanics utilizes the teres major and the lattisimus dorsi (sp).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ristar, watch the video of sparks... he throws a lot harder than you, no offense... MM just thinks that he is the best pitcher in the world skill wise.

                          http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-marshall051007

                          He's the best MM pitcher, right Fastaball (except for you of course )?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ok card and I can use my Bicep in hitting and it isn't going to do anything different.

                            I do think it helps injury But I also think you can't get the mph or control.

                            Everyone needs to remember more stress means more force is added. They work hand in hand. You add more force the stress on the body goes up.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              sparks was rotational NOT MM mechanics

                              His arm action is not the same as DM talks about and shows how to do.
                              Last edited by RIstar; 02-18-2008, 09:30 AM.

                              Comment

                              Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X