Who's Killing Youth Sports

[Jake Patterson]

We discussed this before and it has become a topic at HSBW. Here's the article Who's Killing Youth Sports. I resurrected the article because recent research shows that 1:200 HS baseball players make it to the pros. I would argue these numbers as being way off as the NCAA analysis did not include Non-NFHS members and it did not include the rising number of foreigners taking MLB, MiLB spots (Last year 28%). With 750 MLB spots and approximately 120 new spots opening up each year, filled by 30% non-American players this makes the number of HS players making it to the top spots more like 1:15,000.


http://www.parade.com/articles/editi...005/featured_0

[Slapper23]

Jake, great article. I believe it is the adult influence that hurts youth sports. I'm talking only about the negative behavior described in the article, because many adults do a great job with kids.

I have been guilty of pushing, pushing, pushing my kids and now granddaughters. I get too wrapped up in their performance. I'm too tough on my 12 yo granddaughter in fastpitch and basketball. along with that is the early immersion of kids in league and travel ball. My granddaughter has played travel softball since she was 8 and when you add the "push" factor of her grandpa, she informed me she does not want to play this summer. This from a kid who just wails on the ball with a great rotational swing. But grandpa gets too negative, something I manage to avoid with other's kids, where where I'm very positive.

Now, I think she likes b-ball better than softball. She has played AAU last winter and is now 5'7" wearing a size 11 shoe. Well, I need to back off and offer more positive encouragement, not brow beating.

My point is, I don't think my drive and behavior is that much different than some parents. It becomes more important to me than the kid. Not good. So, yeah, I can see how kids turn off and tune out. And there are coaches who coach all kids like I do my granddaughters.

It gets back to adult behavior and an over-organized day after day after day scheduling of kid's time. We need to let them be kids and enjoy their childhood. I am guilty.

Mike

[Jake Patterson]

Having the advantage of being able to look back at what we did with our now adult children - and in your case your grandchildren- we can easily see the follies of others. I made a bunch of mistakes with my two boys, but managed to leave them with a love for the game, both in their own way. My oldest 27 an advid fan of the game, my youngest 23 as a player.

[Slapper23]

Jake, I hear ya. My daughter, Cybil, is now 33 y.o. and played fastpitch, but she is a HUGE ST. Louis Cardinal's fan. We took her to games early on and it stuck with her. Had to buy her a Pujols jersey last year, set me back pretty good, and she does wear it.

Hopefully, I can still learn from my mistakes with my 12, 8 and 3 y.o. granddaughters, and instill that love for the game...whether it's softball or b-ball or whatever.

Mike

[TG Coach]

I've read the entire Sports Done Right research paper. While I won't disagree with much of what's said in the research, Maine is hardly the center for getting a balanced perspective. A much smaller percentage of Maine high school athletes earn college athletic scholarships than an average state. University of Maine has mostly out of state athletes. Their hockey team should be named University of Canada, Maine campus. Their baseball team has seven (of 35) players from Maine.

[Jake Patterson]

I've read the entire Sports Done Right research paper. While I won't disagree with much of what's said in the research, Maine is hardly the center for getting a balanced perspective. A much smaller percentage of Maine high school athletes earn college athletic scholarships than an average state. University of Maine has mostly out of state athletes. Their hockey team should be named University of Canada, Maine campus. Their baseball team has seven (of 35) players from Maine.

How does this compare to a similar size State from down south???

[TG Coach]

How does this compare to a similar size State from down south???

My statement wasn't intended to be a north versus south statement. It was a statement of fact based on the size of the state, any small state, anywhere. This study just happens to be from Maine.

When kids are raised in an environment where they are less likely to be looking for athletic scholarships, they are going to have a different perspective than those who live in areas where it's more likely to be a reality. Parents don't get weird when they don't see kids getting college rides. When they see kids around them getting rides they are more likely to get weird about it for their own kid.

Personally I think a lot of the behavior problems in the pre teen sports relate to parents fearing their kid isn't as good as the next kid, rather than the goal of a college ride. Throw in we have become a self centered society where courtesy is extremely secondary to success. I rarely remember parents yelling at refs when I played. I remember crude parents from low class town yelling. Now it's the professional from the upscale neighborhood. It's a mother. It's anyone. It's becoming an every day event.

I've run many youth baseball and basketball leagues. There may not be a negative behavior I haven't seen other than a weapon being pulled. And these parents have to know their kids aren't going anywhere in the game. They just want their kid to get the $10 piece of plastic at the end of the season. It makes their kid better.

[Drill]

A combination of all of the above along with there is a broad spectrum of other interest out there now. So kids just loss interest in the game, no matter which sport they are playing.



drill


PS Now the kids are turning into adults and are play the game of life. By Parker Davis or is it Hasbro.

No wait its produced by the man above.

[Jim W.]

Baseball takes a LOT of hard work to be a good player. If kids are not getting playing time, they tend to drop it for something else.

[Three A's baseball]

Jake

out of curiosity what are the odds of that same HS Player earning a :

Div 1
Div 2
Div 3

etc...


Scholarship.

[glovemedic]

How does this compare to a similar size State from down south???

In Tennessee we have 17 of 35 rostered players from in-state HSs

[Jake Patterson]

Baseball takes a LOT of hard work to be a good player. If kids are not getting playing time, they tend to drop it for something else.

Jim anything done professionally takes a great deal of work. My nephew is a professional runner. He's ran for Providence who won the Big East. They faired well in the NCAA and will have 3 runners moving on to the Olympics. I've never seen an athlete work so hard at his craft.

[Jake Patterson]

out of curiosity what are the odds of that same HS Player earning a :

Div 1
Div 2
Div 3

etc...
Scholarship.

I am working on this with NCAA to see if this can be better define the above. I contacted the person responsible for the last report (which I feel is flawed).

The problem is -contrary to popular belief there is no definitive study that shows probability and the 1:200 (HS/Pro) number used by many is flawed.

The academic and athletic standards each school differs. There is a different sets of standards for say UCONN basketball and Central Connecticut State University - both D1 schools. (BTW CCSU made it to the NCAA last year and UCONN did not) So each school and division has varying requirements that do overlap at the top and bottom. It is more difficult for example to play for Eastern CT State University Baseball -D3 than it is some D1 colleges. They made it to NCAA WS 5 out of the last 6 years. With some of their players paying for the whole ride themselves.

The 1:200 number uses NFHS numbers of 470,671 HS baseball players. I do not believe this include NON-NFHS members (private schools) or home schooled students, nor does it consider players from other countries. last year 28%(?) of the MLB drafts were from other countries. If we look at 750 MLB spots with only 120 new players being rotated in and out (just a guess)each year and 28% of those players coming from outside the country.... Well you can do the calculations...

[Steven Tyler]

PS Now the kids are turning into adults and are play the game of life. By Parker Davis or is it Hasbro

You mention preparing youth and teens for life after baseball and they will stone you for blasphemy at hsbaseballweb. White collar America runs baseball for the most part and the average kids get left behind. Give me a coach that reaches out to the kids that don't have it all handed to them that makes a difference any day over a coach that holds up a trophy for the team picture for the well-to-do.


In other words, baseball in America has turned green as in the color of money.

[virg]

Adults. First day of baseball for me was about 1942 at age 6. I can tell more than you have time for about the pros and cons of pre-LL baseball and football (never touched that other d'thang). But I can tell you the BS never started until adults showed , at 13. Rec leagues introduced us to coaches. Coaches brought more negatives by far than plusses. Seldom taught much. I admit that we wouldn't play ball at All with deadbeats when we could help it, they knew it and sought games at their own level to play in. How brutal is that?

But the theme is Adults.
One war story okay? Two? High school football in Ohio. High rated small class local team facing Cincinnatti Moeller, larger and also rated. Several thousand grown spectators but no hint of shame.

Steady rain throughout. Locals' ball, between plays; ref cradles ball under his jacket, rubs it down until huddle breaks. Then spots ball under towel. Whips the obviously clean light fluffy towel off as Center reaches for ball. Replaces towel under jacket.

Visitor's ball? Ref uses diry wet towel dangling from back pocket (whipping from it like chain). Makes two swipes with it, spots it in the rain, ball waits in rain for huddle to break. Well, square that I am maybe I just hadn't ever watched that closely before? (little soap would'nta hurt either but locals won anyhow)

At Massilon, of Paul Brown fame. The team moniker is "Tigers", and wouldya believe what they drag around the field in a cage before the game and at halftime?

I think unfairness and outright cheating are traits unlearned early then relearned in adulthood.